Light duty commercial EV subsidy

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Myrtone
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Light duty commercial EV subsidy

Post by Myrtone »

Would anyone here like to see electric fleet vehicles and electric taxis supported and promoted more? There are already electric cars available that could be used as taxis but are not because they are too expensive.
Merc1107
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Re: Light duty commercial EV subsidy

Post by Merc1107 »

In time, I think the market will move towards these new technologies as they become more affordable for the masses (if they ever do).

One thing that I absolutely do not think we should be looking towards is scrapping annual inspection, registration, road tolls and so on for owners/operators of EVs. This has been done in many countries, like Norway, to encourage uptake of EVs. In countries like Norway, where living expenses are exceptionally high, driving is expensive (yet the only means of transport for anyone outside major towns), this has resulted in a rapid uptake of EVs, and a rapidly declining government revenue from fuel excise, registration and tolls. When I last visited years ago, there was already talk that the incentives in place to encourage EV uptake would begin to be wound back.

Instead, it might be favourable to increase the fuel excise on conventional vehicles (I would leave out LPG, as my understanding is this is a waste product of refining oil - and rather than burning it off, we could perhaps be making use of it in a less environmentally-harmful way that can filter the combustion gases out). A problem with giving the Government more revenue, however, is they'll come to rely on it. So, when the last conventional vehicles vanish, a new tax will likely appear to make up for the revenue lost from fuel excises - if electric really is the next best thing, I suspect they'll tax that, calling it a "Grid Load Equalisation Tax" or something similar.
Myrtone
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Re: Light duty commercial EV subsidy

Post by Myrtone »

Merc1107 wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 12:27 pm One thing that I absolutely do not think we should be looking towards is scrapping annual inspection, registration, road tolls and so on for owners/operators of EVs. This has been done in many countries, like Norway, to encourage uptake of EVs. In countries like Norway, where living expenses are exceptionally high, driving is expensive (yet the only means of transport for anyone outside major towns), this has resulted in a rapid uptake of EVs, and a rapidly declining government revenue from fuel excise, registration and tolls. When I last visited years ago, there was already talk that the incentives in place to encourage EV uptake would begin to be wound back.
The thing is that incentives in Norway apply even to private E.V owners, not just light duty electric commercial vehicles - like fleet vehicles and taxis. For example, they allow all electric road vehicles in bus lanes and give them free access to car ferries.
Such incentives might be better applied to vehicles that spend a similar and more predictable amount of time on the road each day, namely fleet vehicles and taxis.
Myrtone
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Re: Light duty commercial EV subsidy

Post by Myrtone »

Some of these fleet vehicles may have enough range for the distance and time spent on the road each day, battery swapping is an attractive option for the taxis and fleet vehicles that do not have enough range to last an entire day.
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eddy
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Re: Light duty commercial EV subsidy

Post by eddy »

My brother was as tight as me but he always supported development on new ideas and he had four Toyota hybrid cars (of which there are now 90% of taxis) and every new hybrid truck they made and even bought truck LED taillights when they were $300 each and people laughed at him.

Anyway this is what I sent to SCOMO and even though it looks bad perhaps many poor immigrants with large families in big cities would like a very manoeuvrable town car.

Australia has free trade agreements but I do not think they apply if they do not produce a comparable product as us and with our unique situation on having large immigrant families who live in big cities I believe it may be economically viable for us to produce an electric and very manoeuvrable version of a six wheel mini. https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/ ... xpack-2012
Parrahub, an extra option in the public transport menu http://www.parrahub.org.au/
Myrtone
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Re: Light duty commercial EV subsidy

Post by Myrtone »

Check out Ample, they are aiming at the light duty commercial vehicle sector, and have a modular battery technology that apparently can accommodate any make and model.

This video shows battery swapping, and it shows unscrewing the undertray:


If battery swapping takes off, it would only appeal for those whose vehicles don't have enough range to last an entire day, that is, fleet vehicle and taxi owners. When it was aimed at private owners, as Better place and Tesla did, it failed. Swapping batteries should be way easier than swapping fuel tanks, the latter can refill way faster than batteries can charge. Remember, a fuel tank is not a hydraulic equivalent of a battery.

Also, how about provision to charge while driving, at least on freeways?
Myrtone
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Re: Light duty commercial EV subsidy

Post by Myrtone »

So are most light duty commercial vehicles used 24 hours a day or nearly so? If any are used, say only 12 hours a day, then they just need enough range to last an entire day, being charged during their down time.
We should start by subsidising light duty commercial EVs that have enough range to last each entire day they are used.
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eddy
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Re: Light duty commercial EV subsidy

Post by eddy »

Myrtone wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 9:00 pm So are most light duty commercial vehicles used 24 hours a day or nearly so? If any are used, say only 12 hours a day, then they just need enough range to last an entire day, being charged during their down time.
We should start by subsidising light duty commercial EVs that have enough range to last each entire day they are used.
Most pickups/deliveries can only be done during the day so there would be no reason to swap batteries.

While I do believe that battery trucks of all sizes will eventuate in cities I doubt that interstate trucks will use them because an overnight maglev container train can carry more time sensitive freight faster and cheaper.
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Myrtone
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Re: Light duty commercial EV subsidy

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eddy wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 1:51 pmMost pickups/deliveries can only be done during the day so there would be no reason to swap batteries.
In that case, slow overnight charging should be sufficient.

If any pickups/deliveries are done at night, would they be done by vehicles not used during the day?
eddy wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 1:51 pmWhile I do believe that battery trucks of all sizes will eventuate in cities I doubt that interstate trucks will use them because an overnight maglev container train can carry more time sensitive freight faster and cheaper.
Not so sure about maglevs, but what about overnight conventional rail trains that we have now? And what about cars and trucks that charge while moving along highways?
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eddy
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Re: Light duty commercial EV subsidy

Post by eddy »

Myrtone wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 2:17 pm
eddy wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 1:51 pmMost pickups/deliveries can only be done during the day so there would be no reason to swap batteries.
In that case, slow overnight charging should be sufficient.

If any pickups/deliveries are done at night, would they be done by vehicles not used during the day?
eddy wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 1:51 pmWhile I do believe that battery trucks of all sizes will eventuate in cities I doubt that interstate trucks will use them because an overnight maglev container train can carry more time sensitive freight faster and cheaper.
Not so sure about maglevs, but what about overnight conventional rail trains that we have now? And what about cars and trucks that charge while moving along highways?
There are a few freight depots that work through the night but the truck is mainly stationary loading/unloading.

The problem with conventional rail is it is too slow so it only gets 1% of palletised freight between Sydney and Melbourne and no truck can take an overnight container for $2,000 and 8 hours faster between Sydney and Melbourne.
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Myrtone
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Re: Light duty commercial EV subsidy

Post by Myrtone »

I don't get the second paragraph.
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eddy
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Re: Light duty commercial EV subsidy

Post by eddy »

Myrtone wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 10:53 am I don't get the second paragraph.
All I am saying is even if conventional rail goes faster it still cannot beat trucks in speed or price between Sydney and Melbourne.

PS.
Another reason to why you cannot have an overnight container train on HSR is that it has to close every night for maintenance.
Parrahub, an extra option in the public transport menu http://www.parrahub.org.au/
Myrtone
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Re: Light duty commercial EV subsidy

Post by Myrtone »

I am not a great advocate of private electric vehicles, other than electric bikes and maybe those that would be classified as quadricycles in the European Union and Neighbourhood electric vehicles in the U.S and Canada. See Summary of Montana's Medium-Speed Electric Vehicle (MSEV) legislation and Washington's MSEV legislation.

Light duty commercial vehicles, taxis as well as fleet vehicles, spend a more consistent amount of time on the road each day and are well suited to battery electric vehicle technology as long as they have enough range to last all day.
Myrtone
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Re: Light duty commercial EV subsidy

Post by Myrtone »

One thing that is certainly not needed is subsidisation of private electric vehicles, especially given that most cars can carry four or five people yet very few do. Subsidisation of light duty commercial EVs, at least ones that actually have enough range to last each day they are used, might be worth considering.
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