History of Sydney Nightride bus services - help sought

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robert
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Re: History of Sydney Nightride bus services - help sought

Post by robert »

Thanks for replies so far. I'll process them over the next day or two. I might have some further questions?

The quick answer to Tony is that there were several all-night buses. In about 1964 I used to catch the newly-commenced all-night 150 from Manly to North Sydney at about 1am, which connected nicely with the last Down Shore train to Roseville (I obviously carefully planned the timing of my last kiss!).

Robert
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Glen
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Re: History of Sydney Nightride bus services - help sought

Post by Glen »

I can see this thread branching in two to enable more specific focus on the romantic past of some of our contributors. :lol:
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Re: History of Sydney Nightride bus services - help sought

Post by tonyp »

Glen wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:27 am I can see this thread branching in two to enable more specific focus on the romantic past of some of our contributors. :lol:
No way! :lol:

However, for the purposes of scientific analysis, no doubt it could be a subject for a thesis analysing the influence of that factor on the provision of overnight public transport and the effects of increasing car ownership thereon. The fieldwork would be exciting.
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Re: History of Sydney Nightride bus services - help sought

Post by Swift »

Glen wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:27 am I can see this thread branching in two to enable more specific focus on the romantic past of some of our contributors. :lol:
No thanks. I've heard plenty from my dad who's the same age as Tony, if not the same height.
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Re: History of Sydney Nightride bus services - help sought

Post by Stu »

J_Busworth wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 5:17 pm State Transit operated Route N30 for a period in the 1990s. As far as I'm aware, it was initially operated out of Tempe with MkVs and later from Kingsgrove with Scania L113TRBs. Sadly I don't know start or end dates for that operation, only that it happened.
Here is some STA related info.

1989.
STA were unsuccessful for the tender of Nightride routes N10, N20, N30 & N40. Services commenced 18/06/1989.
N10 Town Hall – Sutherland / Cronulla.
N20 Riverwood – Rockdale.
N30 Town Hall – Campbelltown.
N40 Belmore – Sutherland / Cronulla.

STA was successful for the tender of Nightride route N50.
Tender closed: 24/08/1989.
N50 Town Hall – Liverpool via Strathfield & Fairfield.
N60 Town Hall – Fairfield via Strathfield & Parramatta.
N70 Town Hall – Penrith via Parramatta.
N80 Town Hall – Hornsby via Strathfield.
N90 Town Hall – Hornsby via Chatswood.

* 6 x month trial of all services listed above.


1990-1996.
STA were successful in tendering to operated Nightride routes N30 and N40 under both the 1990 contract and the 1993 contract.
* N30 was formerly operated by Rowes and N40 was formerly operated by Punchbowl Bus Co.
* N40 extended from Belmore to Panania.

Kingsgrove Depot.
Mercedes-Benz O 405 Mk V.
3235, 3245, 3246, 3247, 3375, 3376 3377, 3378, 3379 & 3380.
These units were fitted with direct call taxi radios in October 1990 and fitted with heaters in June 1991.

SCANIA L113CRB (CNG).
3481-3494 from memory were dedicated to the Nightride routes and used to have a phone list directory printed on a thick metal plate and affixed to the bulkhead.

SCANIA L113TRB 14.5m.
3426-3430.
The 14.5 (‘long’) buses were allocated to two exclusive rosters, one created for the route 400 and another created for the Nightride routes which allowed for the continual revolving use of these buses. The long buses would be rostered to operate route 400 from the early morning until the evening after the peak and sometimes late evening. Upon return to Kingsgrove Depot, the long buses would be cleaned, re-fuelled and then dispatched for Nightride routes. The same process would occur when the long buses would return to Kingsgrove Depot in the early morning after operating Nightride routes.


1990-1993.
STA operated the new Nightride route N1 under the 1990-1993 contract.
Leichhardt Depot.
Mercedes-Benz O 405 Mk V.
3139, 3140, 3241 & 3228.


1996.
STA were unsuccessful in retaining Nightride routes N30 and N40 (to Punchbowl Bus Co.), although picked up route N10 (from Westbus).
* N30 extended to from Panania to East Hills and N40 extended from Campbelltown to Macarthur.
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Re: History of Sydney Nightride bus services - help sought

Post by Stu »

Hi Robert,

I found some information from the year 2007.
Nightride route N70 Town Hall – Penrith service which was previously operated from Veolia Villawood Depot was relocated to operate from Veolia Bankstown Airport Depot as from 04/02/2007.

Source.
Australian Bus and Commercial Vehicle Heritage.
Volume 4, Issue 20.
March/April 2007.

I also remember Westway operating the N40 in the early 2000's and also after the company absorbed NBBS & WBBS to become Transit First, possibly sub-contracted by PBCo. or Southtrans / Connex at the time?


Relevant history:
January 2005.
Routes 902, 903, 904, 905 & 910 transferred from Baxters Bus Lines to Connex.
Routes 817, 818, 930 & 932 transferred from Baxters Bus Lines to Transit First.

April 2006.
Connex was renamed Veolia Transport NSW.

September 2006.
Routes 810, 811, 812, 813, 814 & 815 transferred from Baxters Bus Lines to Westbus.

February 2007.
Veolia Transport NSW purchases Transit First.

* Bankstown Airport Depot was formerly Transit First and Westway prior to that.
* Villawood Depot was formerly Baxters Bus Lines (Delwood Coaches).
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Re: History of Sydney Nightride bus services - help sought

Post by Swift »

I recall seeing a night photo of a MarkV Mercedes at Campbelltown on a nightride in an issue of Transit Australia.

I never knew this started way back in 1989. Always thought of it as a 90s thing. Wow it's been that long since 24 hr suburban trains.
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Glen
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Re: History of Sydney Nightride bus services - help sought

Post by Glen »

Swift wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:31 am I never knew this started way back in 1989. Always thought of it as a 90s thing. Wow it's been that long since 24 hr suburban trains.
NightRide was an early initiative of the Greiner Government elected in 1988.

Prior to that we didn't really have "24 hr suburban trains" in the same sense as the buses that were introduced - the late night train service was piecemeal and inconsistent.

The NightRide network achieved some clever connections between routes at places like Fairfield and Liverpool, enabling passengers to travel for example, from Parramatta to Campbelltown or vice versa, hourly all night with a few minutes transfer time at each point.

Some of that has been lost in recent years.

Until recently N20 was a shuttle from Riverwood to Rockdale connecting with N10/N11.

Initially most routes could stand alone on their timetables (excepting N80 & N90 which were timed to interwork at Town Hall to balance the route distances) but later this became less feasible as running times had to be increased for traffic / loading and routes were extended (e.g. N30 from Campbelltown to Macarthur, N40 from Panania to East Hills).

Originally most routes ran hourly 7 nights with some having supplementary 30 minute frequencies on weekends only, outward only from Town Hall to a halfway point then empty back, enabling one extra bus to run the short trips.

For many years the extra trips ran only on Friday night / Saturday morning and Saturday night / Sunday morning. Later they were added on Thursday night / Friday morning.

Extra Standby buses were assigned at Town Hall on the same nights. I believe these have been reduced in the last contract.

In the most recent changes the spread of hours of some routes was reduced to avoid duplication with trains as the train service hours have crept later at night or earlier in the morning.
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Re: History of Sydney Nightride bus services - help sought

Post by Aurora »

Glen wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:01 pm In the most recent changes the spread of hours of some routes was reduced to avoid duplication with trains as the train service hours have crept later at night or earlier in the morning.
Which poses a problem (outside COVID patronage reductions) when trains aren’t moving (final train times have not materially changed), as NightRide was a very good alternative from around 11.30pm/12am onwards. Now NightRide services generally aren’t scheduled until 1am from the city. I would be confident in saying the contractual costs would not be prohibitive.
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Glen
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Re: History of Sydney Nightride bus services - help sought

Post by Glen »

Sometimes the shorter periods of time allow the timetable to be completed without another bus covering a meal break.
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Re: History of Sydney Nightride bus services - help sought

Post by Stu »

The former Shorelink website remains accessible through Wayback Machine.

TRANSDEV (Shorelink)
The timetables for Nightride routes N80 & N90 dated November 1999 are available as PDF and exist as a valid timetable in the year 2005.

TRANSDEV-TSL (Shorelink) from 2005.
After the rebrand in 2008 and until 2014, the Nightride routes N80 and N90 are published on the website as html with no PDF download option available.
robert
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Re: History of Sydney Nightride bus services - help sought

Post by robert »

Thanks for help so far.
Stu wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:32 pm The former Shorelink website remains accessible through Wayback Machine.

TRANSDEV (Shorelink)
The timetables for Nightride routes N80 & N90 dated November 1999 are available as PDF and exist as a valid timetable in the year 2005.

TRANSDEV-TSL (Shorelink) from 2005.
After the rebrand in 2008 and until 2014, the Nightride routes N80 and N90 are published on the website as html with no PDF download option available.
Thanks, Stu. Do you have a link to those Shorelink timetables on the Wayback Machine?

BEROWRA NIGHTRIDE
Fleetline of Dec 2002 reports that a Hornsby-Berowra Nightride ran from Oct 2001 to 29 June 2002. Did it have a route number?

N1, N10, N11, N20
My revised drafts for Timelines of these routes are:

N1
29 October 1989:
• Monday-Sunday midnight-to-dawn service commenced, replacing City Circle train service.
• Contracted by Ministry of Transport to State Transit Authority.
31 October 1993: Contract transferred to Westbus (Bosnjak family).
27 October 1996: Contract transferred to Shorelink (John A Gilbert).
31 October 1999: Contract transferred to Southtrans (CGEA Transport). Operator’s name changed to Connex Southtrans in 2000 & to Connex NSW in 2002.
1 November 2002: Ceased.

N10
18 June 1989:
• Monday-Sunday midnight-to-dawn services commenced, replacing City – Cronulla train service:
City (Town Hall) – Cronulla
City (Town Hall) – Sutherland
• These two routes shared City – Sylvania.
• Contracted by Ministry of Transport to Westbus (Bosnjak family).
19 July 1989:
• City (Town Hall) – Cronulla renumbered N11.
• City (Town Hall) – Sutherland remained as N10, but rerouted via Mortdale.
• N10 & N11 shared City – Hurstville.
5 August 1990: Contract transferred to Southtrans (Deane family).
31 October 1993: Contract transferred to Westbus (Bosnjak family).
27 October 1996: Contract transferred to State Transit Authority.
31 October 1999: Contract transferred to Southtrans (CGEA Transport).
1 November 2002: Contract transferred to Punchbowl Bus Co (Griffin family/Steve Scott).
[2005 & 2008 contract transfers are not available, but it is believed Punchbowl Bus Co retained this contract until 1 March 2018.]
1 March 2018: Contract transferred to State Transit Authority.

N11
19 July 1989:
• Monday-Sunday midnight-to-dawn service renumbered from N10.
• N10 & N11 shared City – Hurstville.
• Contracted by Ministry of Transport to Westbus (Bosnjak family).
5 August 1990: Contract transferred to Southtrans (Deane family).
31 October 1993: Contract transferred to Punchbowl Bus Co (Griffin family/Steve Scott).
31 October 1999: Contract transferred to Southtrans (CGEA Transport).
1 November 2002: Contract transferred to Punchbowl Bus Co (Griffin family/Steve Scott).
[2005 & 2008 contract transfers are not available, but it is believed Punchbowl Bus Co retained this contract until 1 March 2018.]
1 March 2018: Contract transferred to State Transit Authority.

N20
18 June 1989:
• Monday-Sunday midnight-to-dawn service Rockdale – Riverwood (limited service extended to start from City (Town Hall)) commenced, replacing part of City – East Hills train service. Rockdale – Riverwood trips connected at Rockdale with N10.
• Contracted by Ministry of Transport to Punchbowl Bus Co (Griffin family/Steve Scott).
5 August 1990: Contract transferred to Southtrans (Deane family).
31 October 1993: Contract transferred to Punchbowl Bus Co (Griffin family/Steve Scott).
27 October 1996: Contract transferred to Southtrans (Deane family).
1 November 2002: Contract transferred to Punchbowl Bus Co (Griffin family/Steve Scott).
[2005 & 2008 contract transfers are not available, but it is believed Punchbowl Bus Co retained this contract until the current time (2021).]
1 March 2018: Rerouted/extended to run City (Town Hall) – Sydney Airport (International Terminal) – Riverwood.

Any comments?

More to come.

Cheers

Robert
For information about private & Government bus routes in Sydney, look at http://www.sydneybusroutes.com
Glen
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Re: History of Sydney Nightride bus services - help sought

Post by Glen »

For a long time I recall N20 only running Rockdale to Riverwood, sorry I don't know the dates.

I mean prior to the recent extension via the Airport to the City.
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Re: History of Sydney Nightride bus services - help sought

Post by Stu »

robert wrote: Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:15 pm Thanks for help so far.
Stu wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:32 pm The former Shorelink website remains accessible through Wayback Machine.

TRANSDEV (Shorelink)
The timetables for Nightride routes N80 & N90 dated November 1999 are available as PDF and exist as a valid timetable in the year 2005.

TRANSDEV-TSL (Shorelink) from 2005.
After the rebrand in 2008 and until 2014, the Nightride routes N80 and N90 are published on the website as html with no PDF download option available.
Thanks, Stu. Do you have a link to those Shorelink timetables on the Wayback Machine?

Thanks Robert, no worries, here are the links.

February 1, 2001.
https://web.archive.org/web/20010123220 ... relink.htm
This page displays timetables including the N80 and N90 (PDF). The Nightride routes are dated as 01/11/1999 and also exist in the same downloadable format in 2005 although I haven't compare the running times over that small period of years.

July 23, 2008.
http://www.shorelink.com.au/nightride.html
This page displays the Nightride timetables as text only without the option to download as a PDF. Copy and paste the information to a Microsoft Word document and then export as a PDF to create your own electronic version of the timetable.
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Re: History of Sydney Nightride bus services - help sought

Post by Fleet Lists »

I could not find the second one but did find it at https://web.archive.org/web/20130409185 ... tride.html
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robert
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Re: History of Sydney Nightride bus services - help sought

Post by robert »

Glen wrote: Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:01 pm For a long time I recall N20 only running Rockdale to Riverwood, sorry I don't know the dates.

I mean prior to the recent extension via the Airport to the City.
The 29.10.1989 timetable for N20 shows the first bus leaving Town Hall at 1205 for Riverwood, while the remaining trips run only Rockdale-Riverwood. The next timetable I have on hand is that in the CityRail tt for the "Sutherland line" dated 12.1.92, which shows all N20 trips running Rockdale-Riverwood. Looks like the trip starting from Town Hall didn't last long.
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Re: History of Sydney Nightride bus services - help sought

Post by captainch »

When I DID nightride when it first started WESTBUS DID CRONULLA AND SUTHERLAND & STATE TRANSIT DID THE CITY SHUTTLE FROM TOWN HAL TO THE QUAY PUNCHBOWL BUSES MET THE CRONULLA & SUTHERLAND BUES AT ROCKDALE SHOPS TO TAKE PASSENGERS TO RIVERWOOD ALSO WESTBUS DID A HEAD OFF TO HUSTVILLE FRID & SAT NIGHTS.
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Re: History of Sydney Nightride bus services - help sought

Post by Fleet Lists »

N10 and N11 now operated by Transdev see current timetables
https://transportnsw.info/documents/tim ... 210101.pdf
https://transportnsw.info/documents/tim ... 210101.pdf
Timetables are still dated 1 January but the operator change is since October when Transdev was advertising for drivers to operate these services.
Also see viewtopic.php?p=1084857#p1084857 where this has been discussed.
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