Local business to help build next generation of Transperth buses
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:10 pm
Australian Transport Discussion Board
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PTA website wrote: Monday, March 18, 2019 / Categories: PTA News
Local business to help build next generation of Transperth buses
The next generation of Transperth buses will hit local streets later this year, after the Public Transport Authority entered into a new contract to deliver 900 new buses over the next decade.
The $549 million contract has been awarded to Volvo Australia which will use Malaga-based company, Volgren to fit-out the new fleet of buses.
The new buses will replace those reaching the end of their useful life, and to expand the fleet as METRONET projects come on-line.
The modern, aluminium, low-floor diesel buses will have USB charging points, meet Euro6 emissions standards and will be fully accessible.
Volvo also outlined its potential to supply alternate technologies - including hybrid and full electric buses, which may be considered for trial in the future if such technologies are considered viable for Perth.
In partnership with local manufacturer Volgren, Volvo will deliver eight new buses a month for the next decade under the milestone agreement.
The bus chassis will be built at Volvo's headquarters in Sweden, before being delivered to Volgren. The local manufacturer will then build the bus body and fit-out the vehicles to be ready for service.
The contract secures the jobs of 81 local Volgren employees, and a further 80 throughout the local supply chain. Under the new contract, Volgren also plan on increasing local fabrication and securing a local sub component manufacturer.
I don’t think their is really a market for it anymore the world has moved onto improving and refining diesel technology as well as further developing and introducing hybrid and full electric drive solutionsBus-1809 wrote:Guess that marks the end of the CNG Program...
Not enthused...
Personally I don't think we'll see the end of CNG for a while yet. It's a clean energy source that can meet the same emissions standards as Diesel vehicles, and it's a source of energy of which we've a relative abundance here in Australia - so not a bad idea in terms of energy security, either (which is always a valid concern considering where other energy sources like crude oil originate). It's my understanding that CNG engines are still being developed by the large manufacturers.TP1462 wrote:I don’t think their is really a market for it anymore the world has moved onto improving and refining diesel technology as well as further developing and introducing hybrid and full electric drive solutionsBus-1809 wrote:Guess that marks the end of the CNG Program...
Not enthused...
In terms of the reference to artics (and the previous bit on CNG), I imagine the original tender documents would have outlined the requirements. Hopefully another poster is able to drop-in and share a link to it, which would given an insight into what was sought-after. Personally, I did not read the original tender documents when they were first offered, so cannot accurately speak of what is or is not in them.tonyp wrote:I wonder will there be flexibility to vary the chassis as time goes on - like low floor, artic.
Volvo is also a participant in technology change. Ultimately the technology will solve the high-floor problem as hybrid and electric bus motors don't need a high floor. Frankly I don't see any major city operator in the developed world still acquiring diesel buses in ten years time. Hopefully the contract has the flexibility to encompass those changes.TP1462 wrote:PTA and the minister could have easily selected buses from a different manufacturer with more advanced technology but it’s public money and they need to do what’s in the public’s best interests in practical terms so the buses need to be low maintenance, highly reliable with a good warranty period with strong after sales support and Volvo came out on tops perhaps the reliability issues with the Mercedes and CNG demonstrator fleets would have had some sway in this business decision
first and foremost the buses need to be fit for purpose a diesel fuelled bus has a range of around a 1000km a day roughly as opposed to an electric bus which averages around 200km of range and it’ll be a number of years until the technology catches up furthermore most of that range would be gone on 3-4 trips depended on the shift and some of the longer shifts maybe 1-2 trips so would need to set aside for charging not practical the driver would need to continue on with a different bus and retrofitting charging stations and equipment onto the network at the train stations and bus station layover bays would be a costly exercise and PTA nor the government would recoup the losses so in the short term the Euro 6 diesel is the way to go until electric drive technology has improved enough for it to be rolled out on a large scale which will still be a number of years away when the network is best able to cater for it and the best place to roll it out would be the CATs as a test case as you mentioned the contract does allow for a review after 5 years with hybrid and electric buses in the futuretonyp wrote:https://www.busnews.com.au/industry-new ... 41AxES2u4A
It looks like there's a review at the five-year point, which will be a good opportunity to review the technology. If they're still producing only low-entry diesel buses in the second five years they're going to be really behind the times, especially considering that those buses will then be in service for another 20 years, meaning ongoing high operating costs and poor environmental credentials.
Maybe they could make use of James St Layover/Elizabeth Quay as overnight parking locations after refuelling at Claisebrook?Mr OC Benz wrote:The Perth CAT network is certainly an ideal operating environment, however, don't forget they just recently renewed the fleet, so the majority of CAT buses are not due for replacement until 2026. The 7 Volvo B7RLE's in the current CAT fleet are likely up for replacement in 2023 though but whether we'll see anything markedly different remains to be seen. Given that the buses used for CAT's are required to be compatible for suburban operation (which is where they are delegated to after their 10 year life at CAT's), this reduces the likelihood of electric bus viability on CAT's until that compatibility gap is reduced. The outcomes of the most recent CAT network review will be interesting to see though as it could potentially result in additional buses being required in the fleet - although how they will squeeze anymore buses into the current CAT depot remains to be seen!
Mr OC Benz wrote:The tender specifications stipulate a minimum requirement of 18 hours continuous operation or travelling a distance of 500km per day. From the various press releases, it seems that the contract has enough flexibility for technology change if it is deemed appropriate. However, without regulatory/policy change at a federal or state level, and the lack of appetite to spend more than necessary, that's unlikely to occur until electric buses can meet the same or similar operating performance as the diesel fleet. As tonyp says, a lot can change in five years and electric buses may very well be a viable option sooner than we think. We shall wait and see...
tonyp wrote:If anybody doesn't believe that the transition to electric is serious, get a load of this:
https://www.intelligenttransport.com/tr ... pollution/
Thes 800 buses will be acquired in half the timescale of Perth's 900 diesels.
And this is without mentioning bus operations in China.
Just quoting what TP1462 posted above, since it's mildly frustrating to keep coming back to empty comments after they mysteriously disappear one way or another after an hour.TP1462 wrote:Just because something may work in Paris doesn’t necessarily mean it’ll work in Perth given Perth is about 6 times bigger than Paris in kilometres squared now I’ve managed to find some accurate specifications regarding suppliers and range which is roughly between 180 & 250km depended on battery capacity the French have also invested heavily in the infrastructure especially charging points to support the switch we barely have the infrastructure to support electric cars and fast charging points let alone electric buses Bill Shorten’s plan for 50% electric cars by 2030 is barely achievable how do we manage electric buses?. Most European capitals are very dense and don’t have to cover the sheer distance that we have to cover in Australia especially in the regional centres an electric bus wouldn’t make it to Albany or Geraldton let alone Karratha even some of the suburban routes would be pushing the range the same can be said for the Parisian bus system and there is nowhere to recharge it it’ll be a long time until electric drive is truly viable upgrading the existing highway and road network to allow for the infrastructure to be supported is a step in the right direction including bus depots which will take years to complete and charging stations aren’t cheap either also fast charging for buses is still a novelty. Proterra has a system up to 500kW that can deliver up to 60km of charge every 10 minutes, having said all this electric vehicles aren’t exactly more environmentally friendly than the internal combustion engine given mining for lithium isn’t exactly environmentally friendly and cobalt will get more inherently expensive as demand increases and electric buses just like cars are still inherently more expensive than their conventional diesel counterparts once we run out of cobalt and lithium then what?tonyp wrote:If anybody doesn't believe that the transition to electric is serious, get a load of this:
https://www.intelligenttransport.com/tr ... pollution/
Thes 800 buses will be acquired in half the timescale of Perth's 900 diesels.
And this is without mentioning bus operations in China.
https://www.proterra.com/technology/chargers/
https://www.news.com.au/technology/inno ... 4c91b17505
https://insideevs.com/news/345704/paris ... ric-buses/
Reading the tender documents for a number of the areas whose operational contracts are up for grabs, it is quite clear that what we are looking at in terms of fleet replacement at this stage is 900 buses, with diesel being the choice for deliveries initially and alternative fuel/power sources under consideration further down the track. It is worth noting when Perth began to adopt CNG buses on a large scale in the early 2000s, this was a change to the contract for vehicle supply.tonyp wrote:The main point I'm making is that it's moving along faster than you think and it will be a good thing that the Perth order has a halfway review point.