Tap and Pay on Trams

Adelaide / South Australia Transport Discussion
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hillsbus
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Tap and Pay on Trams

Post by hillsbus »

Just noticed this on the AdMet website. PayWave style fares will be trialled on trams only, starting in September.

https://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/Ticket ... y-on-trams
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Re: Tap and Pay on Trams

Post by The Phonj »

Wasn't there an earlier trial on trams for a similar payment methodology?
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Re: Tap and Pay on Trams

Post by Big Engine Mechanic »

That idea freaks me out because some people have business account cards and when they get scammed it's a nightmare.
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Re: Tap and Pay on Trams

Post by Douglas »

It would be no different to any other contactless transaction, in that provided you comply with the terms of use, the bank wears the liability for any fraud.

It looks like the new validators don't have a paper ticket slot, so if these get a wider release, I wonder if it will be alongside existing validators with the paper ticket slot, there'll be a new model of validator for EMV\Metrocard\Paper tickets, or if they'll do a Myki and remove paper tickets completely?
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Re: Tap and Pay on Trams

Post by The Phonj »

Looking at the description on the Adelaide Metro website, it appears to be a separate validator to the current ones, and does not accept Metrocards.
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Re: Tap and Pay on Trams

Post by Big Engine Mechanic »

@Douglas
The banks don't wear liability for fraud.
I've been through being scammed too many times.
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Re: Tap and Pay on Trams

Post by Douglas »

Not to get too off topic, but they do under through a combination of the Visa and Mastercard and Zero Liability schemes and your banks chargeback policies, for example when someone tried booking train tickets in Germany using the numbers off my ANZ Card a few years back, the charges were wiped off my account within a couple of weeks of disputing the transactions.

The requirements vary but it's usually along the lines of don't give people your PIN, make reasonable effort to secure your card, etc.

(edit: In some instances though, the bank/Visa/Mastercard may determine that you aren't liable, but they aren't either, in which case the merchant loses out e.g. If the merchant isn't EMV compliant or they did a manual authorisation over their floor limit)
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Re: Tap and Pay on Trams

Post by Big Engine Mechanic »

@Douglas
"Bank Liability for Fraudulent Payments - Lexology" https://www.lexology.com/library/detail ... f8e6509c02
I had a banker in my family, I've never trusted the banks neither tap and pay.
I'd rather we go back to tickets for trains and buses and keep the old fashioned way of doing things its so much nicer.
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Re: Tap and Pay on Trams

Post by bigrobbo »

Big Engine Mechanic wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:08 pm @Douglas
"Bank Liability for Fraudulent Payments - Lexology" https://www.lexology.com/library/detail ... f8e6509c02
I had a banker in my family, I've never trusted the banks neither tap and pay.
I'd rather we go back to tickets for trains and buses and keep the old fashioned way of doing things its so much nicer.
That is a Great Britain Website with GB laws.

Can you provide the same information for Australia? A quick look at all the major banks and credit unions of Australia say that they will refund all fraudulent transactions once proved that they are, indeed. fraudulent.
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Re: Tap and Pay on Trams

Post by busrider »

Although the article is from the UK, this seems to be the relevant part of it. I imagine the rules are quite similar in Australia.
Unauthorised “pull” payments

Banks are generally legally liable to customers for frauds committed which do not involve the customer authorising payment. If the fraud does not involve the active authorisation by the customer – for example, where a bank card has been stolen – the bank will be under an obligation to repay the customer after the point where he or she notified the bank of the loss or theft of the card. Another potential area of dispute is therefore where a customer has been the victim of an unauthorised payment scam, but the bank refuses to accept liability on the grounds that the customer has been negligent.

Under both the common law and relevant legislation, a customer will only be liable when he has been guilty of gross negligence.[13] The customer is required to:

use the payment instrument in accordance with its terms and conditions;
inform the PSP “without undue delay” on becoming aware of the instrument’s loss, theft, misappropriation or unauthorised use;
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Re: Tap and Pay on Trams

Post by Big Engine Mechanic »

Yes they can refund you if you have been scammed but they don't always do it and it doesn't make them legally liable.
I've had thousands of dollars taken through the paywave chip only and the kind where they just walk past you carrying a bag.
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Re: Tap and Pay on Trams

Post by Douglas »

That article seems to be referring to a different kind of fraud in the UK, similar to this.

Similar rules for bank transfers apply in Australia, where if you transfer to someone wrong or someone fraudulent there's sometimes not much the banks can do about it. I don't know how much has changed with the New Payments Platform, though.

However, those rules wouldn't apply in this instance as this isn't a bank transfer, it's payment involving the Visa and Mastercard networks, who have different rules (including the zero liability) for transactions processed using their networks.
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Re: Tap and Pay on Trams

Post by Big Engine Mechanic »

And I don't even look like I have any money but they just keep targeting me,
It could be the fact I've been out with a couple of young women for coffee because that's when it happens,
they like going to different places.
(Not the young women - proven that they didn't take the money)
And it worrys me because I've got a family joint bank account and they have their masses coming in and out each day,
Either way I'd like all public transport to remain ticket only because then nobody could take anything unless they want to do a Paul Hogan hand shake and take the ticket out of my pocket.
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Re: Tap and Pay on Trams

Post by 2MSJ »

What are you talking about??
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Re: Tap and Pay on Trams

Post by Big Engine Mechanic »

2MSJ wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:08 am What are you talking about??
What part ?
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Re: Tap and Pay on Trams

Post by jibb »

Tap and Pay using Visa or Mastercard is now in operation on Adelaide's Tram Network.
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Re: Tap and Pay on Trams

Post by Big Engine Mechanic »

jibb wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:33 pm Tap and Pay using Visa or Mastercard is now in operation on Adelaide's Tram Network.
I haven't been on a tram in a while, do they still have the other options to pay available ?
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Re: Tap and Pay on Trams

Post by jibb »

Big Engine Mechanic wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:12 pm
jibb wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:33 pm Tap and Pay using Visa or Mastercard is now in operation on Adelaide's Tram Network.
I haven't been on a tram in a while, do they still have the other options to pay available ?
You can also use your Metrocard.
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Re: Tap and Pay on Trams

Post by The Phonj »

The TVMs are still on board to purchase single trip tickets, and recharge Metrocards.
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Re: Tap and Pay on Trams

Post by jibb »

No tickets are issued when you use your Visa or Mastercard.
Ticket checkers will have a special scanner that when it is held over your card will identify that you have paid your fare.
Very safe and secure-system used all over the world.
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Re: Tap and Pay on Trams

Post by Big Engine Mechanic »

The Phonj wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:28 pm The TVMs are still on board to purchase single trip tickets, and recharge Metrocards.
Okay Thank you for your help :D

@jibb
No tickets are issued when you use your Visa or Mastercard.
Ticket checkers will have a special scanner that when it is held over your card will identify that you have paid your fare.
Very safe and secure-system used all over the world.

Thank you for that too :D
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Re: Tap and Pay on Trams

Post by Lieselta »

I think you can also provide the last 4 digits of the card to the inspector, which they'll look up to verify your payment
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Re: Tap and Pay on Trams

Post by Big Engine Mechanic »

Lieselta wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:09 pm I think you can also provide the last 4 digits of the card to the inspector, which they'll look up to verify your payment
Interesting . . . . . . . . I didn't know that :D
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