230, 232 and 232R route and timetable change

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230, 232 and 232R route and timetable change

Post by I Follow PAFC »

230, 232 and 232R route and timetable change
When: From Saturday 8 August 2020.
https://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/Announ ... ble-change
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Re: 230, 232 and 232R route and timetable change

Post by jibb »

According to Adelaide Metro the date of the change is Monday 10th August.
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Re: 230, 232 and 232R route and timetable change

Post by I Follow PAFC »

jibb wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:36 pm According to Adelaide Metro the date of the change is Monday 10th August.
230 and 232 bus detour
Saturday 8 and Sunday 9 August

As a result of these traffic changes, 230 and 232 buses will detour from first services on Saturday 8 August until last service on Sunday 9 August via Torrens Road, Days Road and Regency Road.

During this detour, passengers can use existing and temporary bus stops along Torrens Road, Days Road and Regency Road.
https://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/Announ ... 9%20August
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Re: 230, 232 and 232R route and timetable change

Post by Columbo »

Would be good if they could put some signs up at the stops to tell passengers that their stops will be removed. Just over a week to go and nothing yet along Harrison Rd.

I went to a R2P info session last year so have been aware of what was planned but expect many people would have only become aware of what was happening when the proposed network changes were released.

As a local resident I think the communication about works related to both the R2P and T2T projects over the past 4 or 5 years has been excellent, information about this change seems to have been quite limited.
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Re: 230, 232 and 232R route and timetable change

Post by Admet75 »

Weren't these changes meant to happen when those huge changes that were cancelled by the Marshall Government? Oh well better earlier than never and makes some sense.
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Re: 230, 232 and 232R route and timetable change

Post by TT »

This is simply because Pym Street will no longer cross South Road, permanently. Nothing to do with Knoll’s cancelled plans: that would’ve seen the 232 (Newcastle St and the northern end of Torrens Rd at Rosewater) disappear completely.
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Re: 230, 232 and 232R route and timetable change

Post by bigrobbo »

Why not get rid of the 230-232 Go Zone and split the routes, so the buses can still service Harrison Rd and Days Rd.

One route goes Harrison Rd, r Pym St, l Churchill Rd and l Regency Rd

The other goes r Days Rd, l Regency Rd.

The route along South Rd, while a smart idea, seems to be isolating many passengers.
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Re: 230, 232 and 232R route and timetable change

Post by TT »

Even (1) r Days Rd, l Regency Rd
(2) r South Rd, l Regency Rd
as the 2 routes (230 and 232) would be better than the current arrangement, but does destroy the GoZone.
But then Port Rd still has red bus stops and GoZone timetable display boxes (those that are left) even though Port Rd hasn’t been anywhere near a GoZone for 2 years or so.
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Re: 230, 232 and 232R route and timetable change

Post by Eagle Eye »

TT wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:31 pm But then Port Rd still has red bus stops and GoZone timetable display boxes (those that are left) even though Port Rd hasn’t been anywhere near a GoZone for 2 years or so.
Same with Main North Road since the 224 was cut back to Mawson Lakes.
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Re: 230, 232 and 232R route and timetable change

Post by Columbo »

As a local resident and frequent user of the 230/232 I have taken a keen interest in this whole process, the info that came from the Regency to Pym project said that 4 options were considered for the route change after a desktop planning study by SAPTA.

High frequency along Regency, South and Torrens
High frequency along Regency, Days and Torrens
High frequency along Regency, Reo Rd, Rover Ave, Minerva Cres, Hotchkiss Cres, Itala Av, Talbot Rd, Pym St, Harrison Rd and Torrens Rd
Lower frequency along a split of Regency, Days / South, Torrens


What follows are some thoughts of mine as a local resident impacted by this change. I have never felt the need to contact my local MP about anything until these changes, the feedback I have had from Peter Malinauskas' office is that they have quite a few people raising concerns about the changes. I consider myself fortunate that I am capable of walking the increased distance to my new stop, but for those who aren't in that position these changes will have a big impact

Realistically and logistically the South Rd option is the simplest but has been done before and wasn't very well patronised, frequency was poor and ultimately the service was cut. (this is around 500m shorter than the old route)

Using the back streets would have been a good result for residents to the east of South Rd (like myself) but useless for the people on the other side of South Rd and those streets don't really lend themselves to buses. (this would have been around 300m longer than the chose route)

Seeing as a back street option was evaluated I wonder if a viable alternative would have been -

Regency Rd, Islington Stn, Pedder Cres, Stacey St, Oldsmobile Tce, Pym St, Harrison Rd (this would be about 1km more than the new route, 500m more than the old route)
or
Regency Rd, Islington Station, Pedder Cres, Oxenham St (replaced by new bypass rd once complete), Exeter terrace, Pym St and Harrison Rd. (this would be around 1.5km more than the current route or 500 more than the old route)

This would mean the end of the go-zone to provide a service along Days Rd, but to a degree the go-zone now is useless with the stops on South Rd and their locations.

Pym St in the R2P Project is probably the equivalent of Hawker St in the T2T project, the difference being in there is no lowered road this time so no option of a cross over road, just a pedestrian bridge which required less land to construct than a road bridge and no relocation of underground services that were done for the previous project.

Would love to hear some feedback from those who know more about the process that something like this would have required than I do especially as it relates to the KM covered and the timetabling etc.
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Re: 230, 232 and 232R route and timetable change

Post by bigrobbo »

I would have just abandoned the Go Zone and provided a 30 minute service (hour at night and weekend) to try and keep a similar service as when Pym Street crossed over South Road. As a past user of the Port Adelaide Enfield Community Bus, those streets around Dudley Park are tight, hence my suggestion of using Churchill Rd. I just feel that there are plenty of people who have physical issues walking that will miss out on public transport along Harrison Rd.
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Re: 230, 232 and 232R route and timetable change

Post by The Phonj »

Maybe once the bridge project is complete, an option would be to resume the old route via Harrison, Pym and Days, with buses turning left into South Rd, u-turning at the intersections of South and Regency or Torrens, then left back into Pym St. It would add maybe another two minutes but with the lower volumes of traffic on the non-motorway section the only delays would be performing the u-turn (particularly at the signalled South/Torrens intersection) which could easily have been consumed by buses waiting for the traffic lights that were at South/Pym (especially if the driver had just missed them)
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Re: 230, 232 and 232R route and timetable change

Post by Columbo »

The Phonj wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:23 pm Maybe once the bridge project is complete, an option would be to resume the old route via Harrison, Pym and Days, with buses turning left into South Rd, u-turning at the intersections of South and Regency or Torrens, then left back into Pym St. It would add maybe another two minutes but with the lower volumes of traffic on the non-motorway section the only delays would be performing the u-turn (particularly at the signalled South/Torrens intersection) which could easily have been consumed by buses waiting for the traffic lights that were at South/Pym (especially if the driver had just missed them)
Pretty sure when I went to the meetings about R2P that one of the people I spoke to on the night mentioned that it was an option that was initially discussed, don't see any reason it couldn't work, the old traffic lights were a shocker at times.

All the stops along Harrison Rd and 14A on Pym St have been removed but shelters remain, however Stop 18 (and possibly 17) on Days Rd is still there on both sides.

Will be interesting to see how using Regency Rd / South Rd is impacting on running times towards the city. South Rd traffic seems to be getting a much longer run at the intersection than the Regency Rd traffic, took 5 cycles to get through there around 5.30 tonight. On the other hand the trips heading towards the Port seem to be getting a pretty smooth run along South Rd in the mornings.
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Re: 230, 232 and 232R route and timetable change

Post by TT »

What about the inbound journey? Only a left turn from Pym St to South Rd allowed.
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Re: 230, 232 and 232R route and timetable change

Post by Norman »

TT wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:23 pm What about the inbound journey? Only a left turn from Pym St to South Rd allowed.
They can still do a U-Turn at the Regency Road intersection under the bridge.
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Re: 230, 232 and 232R route and timetable change

Post by The Phonj »

Columbo wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:20 pmAll the stops along Harrison Rd and 14A on Pym St have been removed but shelters remain, however Stop 18 (and possibly 17) on Days Rd is still there on both sides.
The Days Rd stops remain for AM school bus 949 (Elizabeth to School of English, Torrens Rd) and Adelaide Oval AO16 services.
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Re: 230, 232 and 232R route and timetable change

Post by Big Engine Mechanic »

@bigrobbo I don't think it's a good idea to send buses down Churchill road and if people have a problem with that they're not living in reality,
Id think I know, I used to live down there and I couldn't even walk to my local service station without somebody trying to jump me,
bus drivers used to tell me they were too scared to drive anywhere near there after I kept on getting interrogated by bus drivers everytime I got on the bus like I was going to do something.
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Re: 230, 232 and 232R route and timetable change

Post by bigrobbo »

Big Engine Mechanic wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:53 pm @bigrobbo I don't think it's a good idea to send buses down Churchill road and if people have a problem with that they're not living in reality,
Id think I know, I used to live down there and I couldn't even walk to my local service station without somebody trying to jump me,
bus drivers used to tell me they were too scared to drive anywhere near there after I kept on getting interrogated by bus drivers everytime I got on the bus like I was going to do something.
I am sorry that yourself and others have had experiences like this. I assume you are talking about the northern section of Churchill Rd and not the southern section where I would be looking at the 230 or 232 run down.

Having people feel safe about going outside and catching public transport safely is another issue altogether. I would love to hear about how you could help make public transport safer for everyone. It is a complex issue. The drivers have to stay safe and keep their passengers safe. But you cannot tell how someone is going to behave based on how they look, how they are dressed and how intoxicated they may appear.

My point is that Harrison Rd, Pym St and Days Rd have had their services removed by no fault of their own, There is not much we can do about Pym Street, but we can do something about the other two roads. Especially Harrison Rd, where people with mental disabilities, physical disabilities and other health issues may not be able to walk to South Rd, Torrens Rd, Churchill Rd or their closest railway station easily. That area has its fair share of people with lower incomes and, potentially, rely on public transport to get around. This limits access to the city, Arndale, Port Adelaide for shopping, medical services, and may effect their mental health by feeling more isolated.

So, in my opinion, efforts must be made to try and service Harrison Rd. And it can be done. It just needs a rethink of how we service this area and the effects it will have on the access to the city via Addison Rd.

A simple solution would be run the 230 via Torrens Rd, Days Rd, Regency Rd, Torrens Rd Addison Rd and then the 232 wind through Devon Park and even have short runnings at night to Arndale or to Cheltenham Parade Corner to maintain the Go Zone.
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Re: 230, 232 and 232R route and timetable change

Post by Big Engine Mechanic »

@bigrobbo
Thank you for your sincerity.
Criminal activity tends to move from street to street because police clear them out of one street then they tend to move to another street.
In the old days we used to have mental asylums and those dangerous types would not be walking around on the streets like they do today that's the problem.
It was stupid to cut those roads because there are obviously an amount of people in need of catching a bus in that area,
Maybe a petition to bring the old routes back from those people in that area could help.
Is there something else going on with those cancelled routes that I don't know about like construction?
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Re: 230, 232 and 232R route and timetable change

Post by Lt. Commander Data »

From an outsiders view, I think it would make sense for a new route entirely instead of making the 230/232 situation more complex than necessary.

230/232 to remain the same north of Arndale. Then run direct via Torrens Road to the city (decreasing travel time for people who live further out)

231/whatever number you like, Torrens Rd, Harrison Rd, Pym St, Churchill Rd, Regency Rd to Arndale. Provides Harrison Rd with access to Arndale and the City, would only need to run every 30-60 minutes.

I understand that this adds precious route kms to the system; perhaps it could be worked around cutting some 239 services back to 235s and finding an alternative arrangement for Days Rd
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Re: 230, 232 and 232R route and timetable change

Post by Eurostar »

Lt. Commander Data wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:17 pm From an outsiders view, I think it would make sense for a new route entirely instead of making the 230/232 situation more complex than necessary.

230/232 to remain the same north of Arndale. Then run direct via Torrens Road to the city (decreasing travel time for people who live further out)

231/whatever number you like, Torrens Rd, Harrison Rd, Pym St, Churchill Rd, Regency Rd to Arndale. Provides Harrison Rd with access to Arndale and the City, would only need to run every 30-60 minutes.

I understand that this adds precious route kms to the system; perhaps it could be worked around cutting some 239 services back to 235s and finding an alternative arrangement for Days Rd
I recall there was a 233/234, one went via Arndale and the other went to Wingfield via Days Road
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Re: 230, 232 and 232R route and timetable change

Post by Columbo »

The Phonj wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:23 pm Maybe once the bridge project is complete, an option would be to resume the old route via Harrison, Pym and Days, with buses turning left into South Rd, u-turning at the intersections of South and Regency or Torrens, then left back into Pym St. It would add maybe another two minutes but with the lower volumes of traffic on the non-motorway section the only delays would be performing the u-turn (particularly at the signalled South/Torrens intersection) which could easily have been consumed by buses waiting for the traffic lights that were at South/Pym (especially if the driver had just missed them)
I think this route may have been tested by the driver of 1235 bus this morning, and caught myself and another passenger out.

Was waiting on South Rd at Stop 15 for the Arndale bound bus, the app showed it was at Torrens and South Rd corner, I looked up and there it is about to pull up, thought the app must have been a little bit behind so got on...not realising he had most likely just turned out of Pym St.

Got to Regency Rd and we go straight across and down to the U Turn to head back along the other side of South Rd, the guy who got on with me asked the driver was the bus going to Arndale, he said no he was going to the City but Pym St was closed so he had to go that way, I asked why he didn't come along Regency Rd like the next City bus that was sitting in the bus lane waiting to turn, he said he wasn't aware that he had to go that way.

Interestingly it didn't seem to add a huge amount of time to the trip (granted he wouldn't have stopped until we got on), app said it was 4 min late arriving at stop 15 to the city but then showed 16 min late at stop 13 on South Rd so I'm wondering if he turned left on to Pym St again when he got there and continued along the old route.

Research tells me 1235 is a St Agnes bus, I assume not too many 230/232's would be done from that depot but surely all depots would have been aware of the change if they are running that service?
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Re: 230, 232 and 232R route and timetable change

Post by TT »

Leaving the right turn pothook (with a sign showing 230,232) on Regency Rd just before the corner of Days Rd heading east doesn’t help. They’ve removed the bus stops (other than those still used by a school bus) but haven’t removed the pothook. The pothook before South Rd still shows 231 turning right from many years ago.
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Re: 230, 232 and 232R route and timetable change

Post by Big Engine Mechanic »

All this reminds me of one situation;
Some guy with a desk job that has to arrive to work on time with no experience in the field has just got a pen and a piece of paper "road map and put a line here and a squiggle there and thought that'll do :lol:
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