How bus revamp will get commuters moving faster.

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How bus revamp will get commuters moving faster.

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How bus revamp will get commuters moving faster.
Transport integration Bus passengers would be forced to transfer to trains and trams under a proposed transport system overhaul aimed at reversing declining patronage and getting commuters to their destination faster.

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https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sou ... a9f920c209
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Re: How bus revamp will get commuters moving faster.

Post by jibb »

Interesting that in the first round of tenders covers East-West,O-Bahn and Hills.
Looks like the intention is to split up contract areas.
New contracts begin in July 2020.
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Re: How bus revamp will get commuters moving faster.

Post by BAMBAM »

Since I Follow PAFC didn't want to share the article with people who don't have access to, I'll post it up. It would be nice to share the article for others to read next time please.

Overhaul aims to boost Adelaide public transport usage with bus, tram, train integration

Matt Smith, The Advertiser
April 19, 2019 7:08pm


Bus passengers will be forced to transfer to trains and trams under a proposed public transport overhaul aimed at reversing declining patronage and getting commuters to their destination faster.

The State Government will today release the first of two tenders for operation of the metropolitan bus system.

A key part of the lucrative contracts — expected to cost taxpayers $1.5 billion over eight years — would be that operators work within a system whereby commuters would be forced to hop between buses, trains and trams to speed-up travel times.

This ambitious and likely contentious plan is being considered by the Government’s new South Australian Public Transport Authority, which has been asked to draw upon experience of other cities where commuters commonly use multiple modes of transport for one trip.

Transport Minister Stephan Knoll told The Advertiser the tender was the “single biggest lever” the Government had to pull to provide better public transport.

“Over the last three years we’ve seen a decline in bus patronage across our network,” Mr Knoll, pictured, said.

“At around 8 per cent, Adelaide has one of the lowest rates of public transport usage in the country and the highest percentage of people who choose to drive to work of any capital city.

“We also have the worst level of integration between the different modes of public transport.”

Transport department figures show there were 49.6 million paid bus trips last financial year, down 0.55 per cent on a year earlier and 1.16 per cent on 2015-16. The department said total paid public transport patronage had declined by 1.34 per cent between 2016-17 and 2017-18, but it was unable to provide a figure for the total number of trips.

Mr Knoll said only “incremental” changes had been made to the public transport network over the past 20 years.

“I think it’s fair to say that we’re not getting the results we want with respect to customer satisfaction and patronage levels,” he said.

The successful company, or companies, would have to offer more frequent and faster services and scrap poorly used routes.

They would also have to be responsive to social and technological changes and reduce the cost of delivering services.

The first tender will service the eastern and western suburbs, the O-Bahn and the Adelaide Hills. The second tender, to be released in July, will cover the rest of metropolitan Adelaide.
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Re: How bus revamp will get commuters moving faster.

Post by I Follow PAFC »

BAMBAM wrote:Since I Follow PAFC didn't want to share the article with people who don't have access to, I'll post it up. It would be nice to share the article for others to read next time please.

Overhaul aims to boost Adelaide public transport usage with bus, tram, train integration

Matt Smith, The Advertiser
April 19, 2019 7:08pm


Bus passengers will be forced to transfer to trains and trams under a proposed public transport overhaul aimed at reversing declining patronage and getting commuters to their destination faster.

The State Government will today release the first of two tenders for operation of the metropolitan bus system.

A key part of the lucrative contracts — expected to cost taxpayers $1.5 billion over eight years — would be that operators work within a system whereby commuters would be forced to hop between buses, trains and trams to speed-up travel times.

This ambitious and likely contentious plan is being considered by the Government’s new South Australian Public Transport Authority, which has been asked to draw upon experience of other cities where commuters commonly use multiple modes of transport for one trip.

Transport Minister Stephan Knoll told The Advertiser the tender was the “single biggest lever” the Government had to pull to provide better public transport.

“Over the last three years we’ve seen a decline in bus patronage across our network,” Mr Knoll, pictured, said.

“At around 8 per cent, Adelaide has one of the lowest rates of public transport usage in the country and the highest percentage of people who choose to drive to work of any capital city.

“We also have the worst level of integration between the different modes of public transport.”

Transport department figures show there were 49.6 million paid bus trips last financial year, down 0.55 per cent on a year earlier and 1.16 per cent on 2015-16. The department said total paid public transport patronage had declined by 1.34 per cent between 2016-17 and 2017-18, but it was unable to provide a figure for the total number of trips.

Mr Knoll said only “incremental” changes had been made to the public transport network over the past 20 years.

“I think it’s fair to say that we’re not getting the results we want with respect to customer satisfaction and patronage levels,” he said.

The successful company, or companies, would have to offer more frequent and faster services and scrap poorly used routes.

They would also have to be responsive to social and technological changes and reduce the cost of delivering services.

The first tender will service the eastern and western suburbs, the O-Bahn and the Adelaide Hills. The second tender, to be released in July, will cover the rest of metropolitan Adelaide.

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Re: How bus revamp will get commuters moving faster.

Post by bigrobbo »

Don’t we have a fair bit of this already off peak? Buses connect with each other at TTP and Paradise already. There is no timetabled connections so buses don’t all run late.

But, how would you do this East-West? The beach is not far from the city. The hills are very close to the city. I doubt if people would travel from Wattle Park to the city via Paradise. Where would you put a bus hub to swap buses on these areas?


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Re: How bus revamp will get commuters moving faster.

Post by jibb »

People don't like transferring buses etc.They want to get from point A to point B as quickly as possible.
We need peak hour bus lanes and traffic light priority for buses to speed up bus services.
Yes there are some routes that don't carry enough passengers to warrant Adelaide Metro operating them
Subsidise either Uber or a small private operator to run these services and let the contractor/s who win the new contracts concentrate on the main routes.
I do agree with the Minister that nothing much has happened to bus routes in the last 2 years, so it is time for a complete overhaul of many bus routes.
Get rid of letters on route numbers(ie W90,G20,H30 etc) and lets have a proper route numbering system.
I think we are in for a revolution in our Bus Network from 2020 onwards.
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Re: How bus revamp will get commuters moving faster.

Post by TA3001 »

I think the only benchmark achieved in 2020 will be 100% accessibility. There will still be plenty of 1990s buses getting around, which probably won't please the folks who want to catch the newest buses to work.
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Re: How bus revamp will get commuters moving faster.

Post by tonyp »

This is the Perth model. I hope they plan and implement it properly and pull it off as successfully as Perth. Sydney and Canberra are also heading down this path.
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Re: How bus revamp will get commuters moving faster.

Post by 1whoknows »

Indeed. Can just see the six buses pulling up at the station to connect their combined 100 or so passengers with the 2 car electric that is already chocka.
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Re: How bus revamp will get commuters moving faster.

Post by jibb »

1whoknows wrote:Indeed. Can just see the six buses pulling up at the station to connect their combined 100 or so passengers with the 2 car electric that is already chocka.
Our electrics are 3 cars.
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Re: How bus revamp will get commuters moving faster.

Post by 1whoknows »

Your diesels are not.
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Re: How bus revamp will get commuters moving faster.

Post by TA3001 »

The diesels (3000) can be adjusted to suit requirements, where as the electrics are a set length of 3 cars. If the entire system is electrified at some point, then the new railcars may have to be engineered to be potentially operated as single units.

The Belair line doesn't even get enough passengers to fill a mini bus during quiet times (eg Sunday evenings), so running a 3 car set there would be a ridiculous waste of electricity in my opinion. The Grange and Outer Harbor lines currently operate with one car diesel sets after hours, so the Belair line is not alone in this regard.

Labor pretty much always ran two car sets even on the last inbound service from Belair on public holidays. If the 3000s can be converted to electric, then this is probably the most viable option, since they're not due for replacement until around 2027 (the Comeng units) to about 2036 (the newest Clyde units).
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Re: How bus revamp will get commuters moving faster.

Post by jibb »

An article in today's In Daily with further comments from the Minister and an experts view on what these new tenders will mean to our Public Transport system.
http://indaily.com.au/news/2019/04/23/a ... able-cuts/
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Re: How bus revamp will get commuters moving faster.

Post by BroadGauge »

TA3001 wrote:The Belair line doesn't even get enough passengers to fill a mini bus during quiet times (eg Sunday evenings), so running a 3 car set there would be a ridiculous waste of electricity in my opinion.
You might be shocked by how much fresh air is carted around in the very early or very late hours by 6 to 8 carriage sets in the eastern states! I used to sometimes get an entire 6-car set to myself, aside from the driver, on one of the trains that I used to catch regularly in Melbourne.

Perhaps a solution could be some 2-car sets for quieter lines, like you see on New Zealand's two suburban rail systems.
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Re: How bus revamp will get commuters moving faster.

Post by Eagle Eye »

TA3001 wrote:Labor pretty much always ran two car sets even on the last inbound service from Belair on public holidays. If the 3000s can be converted to electric, then this is probably the most viable option, since they're not due for replacement until around 2027 (the Comeng units) to about 2036 (the newest Clyde units).
Apparently with the older engines in the 3000/3100 class, they were becoming a risk to run a single car in case of a breakdown, hence why they always operated with minimum 2-car sets. Now that they have new engines, they are reliable to run as single car units again.
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Re: How bus revamp will get commuters moving faster.

Post by Route 506 »

TA3001 wrote: The Belair line doesn't even get enough passengers to fill a mini bus during quiet times (eg Sunday evenings), so running a 3 car set there would be a ridiculous waste of electricity in my opinion. The Grange and Outer Harbor lines currently operate with one car diesel sets after hours, so the Belair line is not alone in this regard.
A fair comment and the question needs to be asked in some cases why isn't it better ?
Belair is a beautiful, scenic journey through the hills, but apart from people who live along the line, or people visiting the Belair National Park, what options are there along way in the form of bus connections? Blackwood station has some weekday connections, but weekend services there aren't too frequent. Obviously Goodwood and Showgrounds would be busy enough, and have some bus services crossing nearby, and Millswood is over Goodwood Road, but here are a couple of suggestions to possibly better connect the train services with buses.

Unley Park Station: Yes the Route 300 travels along Cross Road past the train line, and Route 200 via Hilda Street, so could Stop 173 on Cross Road be a connection point for Route 300 with trains, as Wurilba Avenue is probably a bit tight for buses to go around unless no parking zones are made.

Mitcham Station: We already have 190B (Ex 191 or 192 to Torrens Park) Routes that finish at Mitcham, so could these be extended to Stop 14 (Mitcham Station) and timed in to connect with trains? Even the 171 or 171A could be brought in to connect at Mitcham Station giving people options for transfers?

Lynton Station: Could the now 200C not travel from Boothby Street around the corner to nearby Barrets Road and stop just before Cole Street a 2 min walk from Lynton Station providing a connection for passengers at Lynton. This seems a more purposeful terminus than just at Boothby Street and would use very few kms extra if not slightly readjusted to avoid that?

Blackwood Station: Improved Connections here and better bus frequency would surely go a long way to encouraging people to catch a train that will actually have a bus connection.

The examples I have used are only of current Bus Routes, which of course could change if suburban loop type feeder routes were brought in, but surely better rain/bus connections will help improve patronage numbers?

Obviously the other thing the Belair line would benefit hugely from is being re-opened at least to Aldgate where you could form a decent Interchange. Obviously with the population boom Mt Barker would be ideal, but I would highly doubt we will see any extension from Belair in decades to come sadly.

Grange has the same problem after Woodville, and only being hourly there are not any real set connections at Grange Station/Military Road. So adjusting timetables could make this happen, but not sure how effective this would be.

Outer Harbor numbers will be interesting to note when the new Port Dock Station and Interchange is built. In saying that stations such as Ethelton and Glanville, and even Outer Harbor itself are surely easy connection points if we can be bothered adjusting and scheduling buses in to connect with trains and link the peninsula, coast, Port Centre even down to West Lakes and Grange (and yes that includes Semaphore!!)

We can only hope that some investment and effort is put into Adelaide Public Transport to help improve it.
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Re: How bus revamp will get commuters moving faster.

Post by jibb »

Glenelg is another area where some routes could connect with the tram at stop 16.(Moseley Square is no good as the Bus Interchange is too far away).
265 route could become 665 route(like it use to be years ago) and buses to and from Brighton,Seacliff and Marion could terminate/commence there.
To offset loss of 265 services along Anzac Highway and Torrens Road 263 services could become every 15 minute frequency (with alternate buses travelling as 262 along Sturt Road to Brighton Station then via Brighton Road as normal.
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Re: How bus revamp will get commuters moving faster.

Post by TT »

The trouble with train connections is at the other end, in the city, you are on the very northern edge of the city. So if you want to get somewhere in the eastern end, Hutt street, Pulteney St, or Victoria Square, it means another transfer probably to a tram and so now a three journey trip. Most other cities that have good train/bus connections as hubs in the suburbs have a number of stations, often underground, in the city So that you are able to alight much closer to your destination than Adelaide Railway Station is to much of Adelaide city.
Last edited by TT on Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How bus revamp will get commuters moving faster.

Post by tonyp »

TT wrote:The trouble with train connections is at the other end, in the city, you are on the very northern edge of the city. So if you want to get somewhere in the eastern end, Hutt street, Pulteney St, or Victoria Square, it means another transfer probably to a tram and so now a three journey trip. Most other cities that have good train/bus connections as hubs in the suburbs have a number of stations, often underground, in the city So that you are able to alight much closer to your destination than Adelaide Railway Station is too much of Adelaide city.
I understand that principle and you would be thinking of Sydney and Melbourne as examples with a CBD circulator rail system, but in most cities, like Perth (which is obviously the model for the present proposal) and Brisbane, they don't have a CBD rail circulator and rely on transfer to free buses (or entire free transit zone). Adelaide has this setup already with the free tram zone and the free circulator bus. I think you'll find that it will work. People accept transfers if they're good, which means frequent services on all of the routes in all modes.
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Re: How bus revamp will get commuters moving faster.

Post by tonyp »

jibb wrote:Glenelg is another area where some routes could connect with the tram at stop 16.(Moseley Square is no good as the Bus Interchange is too far away).
265 route could become 665 route(like it use to be years ago) and buses to and from Brighton,Seacliff and Marion could terminate/commence there.
To offset loss of 265 services along Anzac Highway and Torrens Road 263 services could become every 15 minute frequency (with alternate buses travelling as 262 along Sturt Road to Brighton Station then via Brighton Road as normal.
The problem with the Glenelg tram is that it's very slow. Aren't the parallel bus services to the city faster? If they could speed up the tram journey time (which is quite achievable) it might then be competitive enough to be considered. The same with the train journeys, they need to have quite high average speeds. This was a major part of the formula for Perth's success - both frequent connecting bus and train services with excellent interchange facilties between them AND very quick train journeys.
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Re: How bus revamp will get commuters moving faster.

Post by jibb »

One of the biggest factors in slowing the tram journey is the traffic lights in King William Street and North Terrace.
Trams do not receive priority at any of the lights and this adds 3-4 minutes to the journey.
Another slow point 10kph is near Glengowrie Depot, where there is the bridge over the large creek ,plus crossovers to and from the depot.
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Re: How bus revamp will get commuters moving faster.

Post by tonyp »

jibb wrote:One of the biggest factors in slowing the tram journey is the traffic lights in King William Street and North Terrace.
Trams do not receive priority at any of the lights and this adds 3-4 minutes to the journey.
Another slow point 10kph is near Glengowrie Depot, where there is the bridge over the large creek ,plus crossovers to and from the depot.
It's general timing along the ROW is also slow. This is down to lethargic acceleration/deceleration rates and dwells, as well as maximum speed which I understand has been reduced since the Citadis were acquired as they tend to work up a yaw at speed and damage the track. They could squeeze some more minutes out of the overall journey time by livelier operation along the ROW, but unfortunately they may not have purchased the best trams to do that.
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Re: How bus revamp will get commuters moving faster.

Post by TA3001 »

Would it be practical to use the 'Flexities' after hours, and the Citadis for peak only? There are 15 of them after all. The timetable isn't any different at 11PM at night to what it is in peak, as the timetable designers clearly do not have any understanding of the fact that conditions do vary throughout the day in regards to passenger volumes and conditions.

It's the same nonsense with train substitute services. The same running times are in effect at 11PM on a public holiday as 8AM on a weekday. Why not make this the case with all timetables including buses? At least late running would be reduced if anything! I'm sure the speed limit drivers would love it.

But somehow I don't see it as perfection, more so an oversight that has been ignored for years now.
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Re: How bus revamp will get commuters moving faster.

Post by TT »

the free circulator bus
The Free City Connector buses (98A,98B,99A,99C) don’t even go past the railway station. So that connection isn’t going to work without rerouting the City Connectors, but I guess if you start with a blank page anything is possible.
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Re: How bus revamp will get commuters moving faster.

Post by jibb »

Torrens Transit Artic R806 has returned to Mile End from Lonsdale.
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