Bus Museum for Adelaide

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Bus Museum for Adelaide

Post by MrNicoster »

Hey all,

I seem to find myself coming back to the same question: why don't we have a bus museum?

Now I know it is all to do with having the time and money and VEHICLES to have the museum but it can't be that hard to at least have a yard where old buses are stored for the public to view (and not a bus depot).

If it were possible, I would love to see a group put money towards it. I think many generations could benefit from a museum showing the public of Adelaide how our bus network changed over the years.
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Re: Bus Museum for Adelaide

Post by boronia »

A museum needs PEOPLE to start it, run it, get vehicles, repair them, restore them, run them, raise money to pay for it all. Coming on here and asking "why" doesn't solve anything.

Ask the tram guys at St Kilda what they have had to go through.
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Re: Bus Museum for Adeliade

Post by MrNicoster »

Yes...

I will get in contact with them so I have a better idea how to start it and start to find people who are interested in participating in this.
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Re: Bus Museum for Adeliade

Post by The Phonj »

There are some individuals that have privately preserved some buses - the talk of having a formalised club has been floated a number of times but with employment, and the ongoing cost of their vehicles (storage, maintenance etc) it keeps getting put in the "too hard" basket.
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Re: Bus Museum for Adeliade

Post by MrNicoster »

Well, lets not give up yet.

It is still possible, just not yet.
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Re: Bus Museum for Adeliade

Post by Lt. Commander Data »

The people at Birdwood (car museum) might help as well
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Re: Bus Museum for Adeliade

Post by LowRider »

Lt. Commander Data wrote:The people at Birdwood (car museum) might help as well
I doubt it. Weren't they getting rid of their heavy vehicles to concentrate on cars themselves?? I could be wrong, but I swear that has been mentioned in an article here before.
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Re: Bus Museum for Adeliade

Post by operator541 »

Hey guys, i personnelly would love a Bus museum but lets go a step further, firstly buses on there own, you gotta admit not much of a draw card for a museum visit. Secondly, yes cost, but those questions can be answered. But heres a possible outcome. Location, Port Adelaide with all the other museums(Maritime, Rail and Air) In the current Port Deopt (Yes kick em out they need a new place anyway) It is a Depot that has run Trams, Trolley buses and Buses. that place has history. Next, Not just a bus Museum but lets invite St Kilda Trams in as well and Now you have a Public Transport Museum. A track could be laid down to the light house and still run Sunday trips. Possibly even run a trolley bus. A Bus could be run between Museums (Maritime, Rail and Air) possible buy an all entries Ticket at one and go to all. Those Privately own buses on loan for display, could pay a small storage cost but maintance could be done on site. State Goverment Grant (Donate Port Depot to the Museum, possibly) could be an option, Port Council would love it plus if they run the trams further on from the Entertainment Centre to Port Adelaide, the track would be there anyway. Just some thoughts to further the Discussion, shoot me down if you want but if I had some spare time and cash i'd donate it to this cause easily. Perth has Whiteman Park and Sydney has there Bus Museum, we do need something like this and if it's done well you will get the Interstate and International visitors as well. Hopefully i've got you thinking, thanks :)
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Re: Bus Museum for Adeliade

Post by boronia »

LowRider wrote:
Lt. Commander Data wrote:The people at Birdwood (car museum) might help as well
I doubt it. Weren't they getting rid of their heavy vehicles to concentrate on cars themselves?? I could be wrong, but I swear that has been mentioned in an article here before.
That is correct. Most of their commercial vehicle collection has been dispersed to other museums. A shame really.
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Re: Bus Museum for Adeliade

Post by boronia »

operator541 wrote:Hey guys, i personnelly would love a Bus museum but lets go a step further, firstly buses on there own, you gotta admit not much of a draw card for a museum visit. Secondly, yes cost, but those questions can be answered. But heres a possible outcome. Location, Port Adelaide with all the other museums(Maritime, Rail and Air) In the current Port Deopt (Yes kick em out they need a new place anyway) It is a Depot that has run Trams, Trolley buses and Buses. that place has history. Next, Not just a bus Museum but lets invite St Kilda Trams in as well and Now you have a Public Transport Museum. A track could be laid down to the light house and still run Sunday trips. Possibly even run a trolley bus. A Bus could be run between Museums (Maritime, Rail and Air) possible buy an all entries Ticket at one and go to all. Those Privately own buses on loan for display, could pay a small storage cost but maintance could be done on site. State Goverment Grant (Donate Port Depot to the Museum, possibly) could be an option, Port Council would love it plus if they run the trams further on from the Entertainment Centre to Port Adelaide, the track would be there anyway. Just some thoughts to further the Discussion, shoot me down if you want but if I had some spare time and cash i'd donate it to this cause easily. Perth has Whiteman Park and Sydney has there Bus Museum, we do need something like this and if it's done well you will get the Interstate and International visitors as well. Hopefully i've got you thinking, thanks :)
Sounds good on here, off the top of your head, but the days of a few friends sticking up a shed made from telephone poles and second hand gal iron on a vacant block of land are long gone. Sit down and write a proper business case on how to achieve the outcomes you want, for a start.

My recollections from a recent visit to Port were that there is a lot of vacant space between the rail and air museums which could be utilised for such a venture if it got off the ground.
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Re: Bus Museum for Adeliade

Post by operator541 »

Hi boronia, I agree that those days of do it yourself are over, it must be done more professionally but using the old depot is in itself. History a Professionally built addition to the old build to allow for undercover protection of the buses and other displays is paramount. i've thought long and hard about this and have drawn up some documents over it. It seriously could be done but comes down to a having an enthuiastic Team of people working for a positive outcome. :D
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Re: Bus Museum for Adeliade

Post by Rick R »

It's good to dream of what might be, but first things first.

Those interested in preservation down there should set up a formal group to get bus enthusiasts rallying around the same point. Without a properly run group the movement will lack the credibility required to lobby those in a position to help, be they Government or private sector.

The Sydney Bus Museum grew from a bunch of enthusiasts in the 1960's getting together to form the Historic Commercial Vehicle Association, whose efforts to purchase, store, restore & operate historic vehicles led to the NSW State Govt. granting use of the Tempe Tramshed in the late 80's.

Years of hard work will be involved in setting up such an organisation, including setting up the vehicle to run it (e.g. an Incorporated Association or whatever you have down there). Don't wait for others to do it for you, get those interested together now and make a start on it. You might only have a small band doing the hard work for some time, but it is often the only way to get the job done. Others will only join up after the organisation becomes successful, but that is part of the way things work.

Try working in with St Kilda, they already have some good vehicles and having them supportive of your aims will be an asset. You should concentrate on having a few good vehicles not lots of vehicles in various conditions, as housing them in a place where they won't deteriorate for decades costs big money and that money has to be raised and wisely spent.

Lastly, remember that just because you think something is really special and deserves to be preserved for eternity doesn't mean that everytone else does & it certainly doesn't mean that everyone else should thing the same as you. Govt. & private funding has to cover things like hospitals, schools and current transport, so finding somewhere to put some old buses has to be justified, regardless of how historically or culturally significant they are.

Good Luck!
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Re: Bus Museum for Adeliade

Post by Lt. Commander Data »

Well, if you're serious about it, you would probably want to buy up few MAN SGs and Merc 0305s before they are all gone, unless they are all gone now.
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Re: Bus Museum for Adeliade

Post by LowRider »

Lt. Commander Data wrote:Well, if you're serious about it, you would probably want to buy up few MAN SGs and Merc 0305s before they are all gone, unless they are all gone now.
Mercs yes, purely because of the O-Bahn, but an SG?! Think of someone NOT an enthusiast. an SG is just an old bus. Nothing particularly special about it, not ground breaking, I don't think you'll find many 'misty eyed' people talking about them.
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Re: Bus Museum for Adeliade

Post by gunzel42 »

[quote="Rick R"]Try working in with St Kilda, they already have some good vehicles and having them supportive of your aims will be an asset. You should concentrate on having a few good vehicles not lots of vehicles in various conditions, as housing them in a place where they won't deteriorate for decades costs big money and that money has to be raised and wisely spent.
quote]

Given the absolute lack of interest in the buses at St Kilda, I doubt any bus museum would be a success.

As a tram enthusiast disgusted with the lack of interest in the buses I recently ensured that 28 blown light globes out of 35 were replaced, primarily for our customer's benefit. How many bus enthusiasts does it take to change a light bulb????

Given the work that has been done by tram enthusiasts to support the alleged bus enthusiasts, you would have to wonder if our effort would have been better spent sending the buses to Sims and using the $$$ for tram preservation!

I challenge you collectively! If you give as much a damn about bus preservation as you claim to do, then front up and clean the buses, pump up the tyres, clean off the pigeon XXX, change the light globes when needed, and actually show you care about the buses. You will be welcomed to do so - anyone who will take an interest in the buses and do some work on them will be applauded for doing so. If you get some runs on the board, then we will be happy to support you.

The tram enthusiasts are tiring of propping up the dysfunctional group of bus apologists, and next time the Trolley Bus Pavilion is closed for public safety, it won't be being rescued by the tram enthusiasts as it has been the last two times.
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Re: Bus Museum for Adeliade

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Hi Guys, In reference to gunzel42, my grandfather was a tram operator when he started with the MTT in 1935 and when he retired in 1972 he was Senior Marshal at Hackney Depot. My Father was a Conductor and Then a Tram operator before being trained on Buses and then worked out of Hackney and then was Transfered to St Agnes At the time of the private operators Take over and Drove Bowmans Buses till STA Buses arrived, my Dad proudly Drove 1501 with his son by his side on cold wet Saturday on a route 550. Now i'm Extremely happy that The Trams are in preservation at St Kilda because i connect with that but there are pieces missing to the whole picture and you've turned a blind eye to that i feel sorry for you about not having the passion to do something about it. I tho have done something, i do have a collection of bus Memorbillia from both my grandfathers time and my dads time and it grows every day. i wish i had space for a Bus and cash for it because i'd go out today and purchase a 760 series AEC Swift no matter what condition and restore it. Gunzel42 you lack the passion and the interest to truely understand what History is about. So much i wish i could do but my health and resources are small so i'm already doing what i can, and if a few of us got together what would've started small grows quickly to a bigger better outcome. I don't need to be rude and condersending to get my point across. Thanks for your time. Regards Scott. :D
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Re: Bus Museum for Adeliade

Post by Lt. Commander Data »

LowRider wrote:
Lt. Commander Data wrote:Well, if you're serious about it, you would probably want to buy up few MAN SGs and Merc 0305s before they are all gone, unless they are all gone now.
Mercs yes, purely because of the O-Bahn, but an SG?! Think of someone NOT an enthusiast. an SG is just an old bus. Nothing particularly special about it, not ground breaking, I don't think you'll find many 'misty eyed' people talking about them.
They may be "just an old bus", but that is besides the point. The point of a museum is to preserve old things, wether they were important or not. Correct me if i am wrong, but weren't the SGs the first non-mercedes bus on the o-bahn?

I understand if people would not want to keep CBs because they were of a **** quality, but the SGs weren't that bad.
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Re: Bus Museum for Adeliade

Post by LowRider »

Lt. Commander Data wrote:
They may be "just an old bus", but that is besides the point. The point of a museum is to preserve old things, wether they were important or not. Correct me if i am wrong, but weren't the SGs the first non-mercedes bus on the o-bahn?

I understand if people would not want to keep CBs because they were of a **** quality, but the SGs weren't that bad.
No, a museum is the exact opposite of what you suggest it is meant to do. They are designed to preserve important/historical/relevant items. They are meant to preserve history. Further more, museums need money to run, especially when you are talking one that is designed to showcase machinery (in this case, buses). As such, money is best spent on restoring/maintaining buses with significant historic and cultural value. An SG280H has none of these. Its just a bus.

Even if you go with the definition on historic vehicle registration (prior to changes that have occurred), but it was 30 years old. This has been tapered back a bit, but an SG280H isn't even historic (read: old) by that definition.

Its an each to their own kind of moment, but I couldn't imagine a bus museum in Adelaide that didn't have at least the following:

- Trolley bus of some description
- Worldmasters
- AEC Swifts (special liverys, like Circle line for example)
- Volvo B59's
- Volvo B58 (marked the expansion upgrade to hills and outer suburbs)
- Merc O305 (which I would imagine would sit on a piece of O-Bahn track to demonstrate it)

That kind of thing. I love SL200's, are they a good bus? Yes. Were they plentiful in Adelaide? Yes. Are they historic and have a cultural value? No.
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Re: Bus Museum for Adelaide

Post by B59 Volvo »

Very old thread regarding an Adelaide bus display up in Queensland :

http://www.busaustralia.com/forum/viewt ... =5&t=18209

Nice collection of buses
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Re: Bus Museum for Adeliade

Post by gunzel42 »

operator541 wrote:Hi Guys, In reference to gunzel42, my grandfather was a tram operator when he started with the MTT in 1935 and when he retired in 1972 he was Senior Marshal at Hackney Depot. My Father was a Conductor and Then a Tram operator before being trained on Buses and then worked out of Hackney and then was Transfered to St Agnes At the time of the private operators Take over and Drove Bowmans Buses till STA Buses arrived, my Dad proudly Drove 1501 with his son by his side on cold wet Saturday on a route 550. Now i'm Extremely happy that The Trams are in preservation at St Kilda because i connect with that but there are pieces missing to the whole picture and you've turned a blind eye to that i feel sorry for you about not having the passion to do something about it. I tho have done something, i do have a collection of bus Memorbillia from both my grandfathers time and my dads time and it grows every day. i wish i had space for a Bus and cash for it because i'd go out today and purchase a 760 series AEC Swift no matter what condition and restore it. Gunzel42 you lack the passion and the interest to truely understand what History is about. So much i wish i could do but my health and resources are small so i'm already doing what i can, and if a few of us got together what would've started small grows quickly to a bigger better outcome. I don't need to be rude and condersending to get my point across. Thanks for your time. Regards Scott. :D
I could quote my family heritage as well in public transport but it is not relevant to the discussion and I don't try to claim credit as my own for the work done by my ancestors. I am confused however as to your claim that I 'lack passion' when I am the one who has actually done something and you are the one who has done nothing besides try to ride on the coat tails of your father and grandfather.

I make no apology for being, as you put it, 'condersending' [I assume you mean condescending?] or rude. I have stepped up to the plate on the last three occasions over 20 years where major work programs have occurred in the Trolley Bus Pavilion (including coming up with the 'Trolley Bus Pavilion' name) despite having no real interest in the buses, yet others who claim to be bus enthusiasts like yourself have done nothing, apart from of course ensuring your own stash of bus 'Memorbillia' is selfishly maintained instead of working collectively with others on items that are not owned personally.

My real interest is in trams, specifically timber-bodied, brass filled, glisteningly varnished trams. I very rarely get the chance to work on what I want to these days as I am doing other activities at the Museum, and at another tram group, doing what has to be done (like changing light bulbs in buses) rather than doing what I would prefer to be doing which is restoring the timberwork of a tram.

The buses at St Kilda, and the images of the buses in B59 Volvo's message that used to be preserved in SA but are now cared for and maintained in Queensland speak the loudest about the lack of action or ability of bus enthusiasts in Adelaide.

Oh, and if later this year you see 623 at the NRM's Transport event, don't forget to come back and thank me, because I am assisting members from NRM with that while you are still doing nothing.
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Re: Bus Museum for Adelaide

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Hi Gunzel 42, and others, My passion is about my family history and i do not ride on the coat tails of my father and grandfather, i am my own man and trams and buses where just employment to my relatives, (my other grand father worked for TIp Top Bakeries). My life is busy to and i honour my relatives by remembering there lives in part throught there employment but also through church. And this brings me to the fact why i cannot offer my services to assist with the buses at St kilda. I lead a music ensemble(I sing and play Bass Guitar), i play Tuba in a brass band and i sing in a choral group on a sunday morning. I rehearse everynight after work,(i work in a major supermarket chain in logistics) and have 3 group rehearsals every week. So you can see my passion is in music but i honour my family in everypart of my life. i ride a motorcycle (a Triumph) and am restoring a Suzuki 650 GS, and i have a couple of smaller collections especially the MTT and STA collection i have going,( i have enough to display in a 2 metre high glass cabient). i have a busy life and so do you and i now honour you for the time and commitment you put in to those beautiful trams (The trams i rode on on my birthday back in April). Your skill and craftmanship to keep those trams running is brillant and i will remember when my father and grandfather drove them, Thanks regards Scott. :)
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Re: Bus Museum for Adelaide

Post by operator541 »

And also i'm sincerely sorry if this post has been side tracked by myself. :( lets get back to the real basis of this discussion.
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Re: Bus Museum for Adelaide

Post by PoweredByCNG »

As some of you may already know, there are a number of former Adelaide route service buses preserved in private hands. Modern favourites including Volvo B58s and B10Ms, MAN SL 200s and Mercedes-Benz O 305s and O 305 Gs are all covered. As some have mentioned, incorporating a museum would involve years of hard work and dedication, and a large enough group of people with similar goals.
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Re: Bus Museum for Adelaide

Post by boronia »

If that is the case, is there any umbrella "bus preservation group" they belong to?

This would be the first step to getting recognition that there are people interested in preserving old buses. They should be getting out and about collectively to make the public aware of the movement.

The Sydney Bus Museum got started this way, and now has a lot of public support to ensure its future,
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Re: Bus Museum for Adelaide

Post by MrNicoster »

I completely agree with boronia. If we can get a group made for our cause, then we are one step closer to a museum. Now of course, we all have lives that we must commit to and I for one can't commit to something big right now like taking on an entire bus museum. Try in 4 years for me :D

On the other hand, I would be happy to do publicity and filming for the museum. If someone can, please start the group for it.
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