QLD Electric Buses Listing

Brisbane / QLD Transport Discussion

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tonyp
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Re: QLD Electric Buses Listing

Post by tonyp »

TD man wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:44 am Hi All,
I am putting on a launch on the morning of Saturday the 24th of April for those who are interested in coming and seeing Transdev’s new electric bus and go for a ride. At the event I can answer some of the questions posted here like..
The wrap, its Translink’s Zero Emissions dictated wrap and it’s a lot better than the Blue and purple one they first suggested
Yes its 100% solar-powered… lack of sun (bad weather) means its goes on shorter runs.
The only trial part is to see if we can run 100% solar, the rest is proven technology and Transdev has 100’s of electric buses worldwide.
if you’re interested in coming to see it and going for a ride please email me paul.vorrasi@transdev.com.au to book a place.
Great to hear how Transdev is pushing ahead on this and nationally too. It'll be interesting to see how the battery backup solar system works. How an electric bus is driven (with an emphasis on regeneration) is also very significant in extending the range - bearing in mind those shady days. I'd urge Transdev though to go for 100% low floor chassis in future. The high floor at the rear with its stairs is harder on passengers and completely unnecessary on an electric bus. It also discourages standees from moving down the back and is a trip hazard. Apart from the Custom Denning Element, Volgren will have a 100% low floor Volvo chassis on the market within a year. Sorry I can't come up, stuck 1,000 km away at present but I have ridden the BYD type in Sydney. Hope it goes well Paul.
tonyp
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Re: QLD Electric Buses Listing

Post by tonyp »

The Element demonstrator in Brisbane was out and about for Translink.

https://scontent.fsyd4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/ ... e=60A67549

It's interesting to see how the approved passenger capacities are panning out in different jurisdictions - considering that it's supposed to be based on a national standard(?)! The bus has a design capacity of 80, no doubt facilitated by the high degree of accessibility with the low floor - 43 seated and 37 standees. In NSW they are registered with 43 seated and 24 standing (67). This Queensland bus is registered at 43 seated and 20 standing (63). Standees will be standing in luxury in Queensland with no stairs, crowding or headroom issues!
verbatim9
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Re: QLD Electric Buses Listing

Post by verbatim9 »

The Yutong electric buses are close to being put into service on the Brisbane CBD city loop.

Image
[size=8pt]Brisbane’s distinctive yellow buses at Yutong’s Virginia facility.

Last edited by verbatim9 on Tue May 25, 2021 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TD man
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Re: QLD Electric Buses Listing

Post by TD man »

These are Yutong not BYD. Yutongs area fully integrated product from China. The only local content is the painting. BYD buses are chassis only then Locals eg Volgreen build the body. but looking forward to checking them out.
blow1940
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Re: QLD Electric Buses Listing

Post by blow1940 »

The local content is not the paint. These have a number of systems and components that were sourced in Australia, Seats, destination system, passenger information, CCTV, TPMS, Fire suppression.
verbatim9
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Re: QLD Electric Buses Listing

Post by verbatim9 »

TD man wrote:These are Yutong not BYD. Yutongs area fully integrated product from China. The only local content is the painting. BYD buses are chassis only then Locals eg Volgreen build the body. but looking forward to checking them out.
Sorry my error
verbatim9
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Re: QLD Electric Buses Listing

Post by verbatim9 »


Brisbane Times----> Electric buses to begin trial in Brisbane CBD from mid-June

The trial will consist of 4 buses on route 40 and 50. It will include onboard phone charging and onboard next stop announcements (audio and visual). Image
tonyp
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Re: QLD Electric Buses Listing

Post by tonyp »

blow1940 wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 6:30 pm The local content is not the paint. These have a number of systems and components that were sourced in Australia, Seats, destination system, passenger information, CCTV, TPMS, Fire suppression.
Most that would have to be fitted to any imported bus to enable them to operate here and can't really be considered build content. The drawbacks of the Yutong are the low passenger capacity and its inexplicable conversion to a low entry bus for the Australian market, when it's actually a low floor design.

Brisbane Buses should be looking at the Custom Denning Element which is Australian made, has a significantly higher capacity and is fully low floor.
blow1940
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Re: QLD Electric Buses Listing

Post by blow1940 »

Well is it build content as they add up to some pretty high costings that could be provided directly from the factory with a lower cost.

The new vehicles going to BCC are 44 seated passengers versions. yes still not fully low floor as the customer did not wish to have this style same as the NSW vehicles.

While the Custom unit may be built here none of the major compents are locally sorcuced, their sale pitch prior to covid was that they are using all high end imported compents now they just say its made here.
tonyp
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Re: QLD Electric Buses Listing

Post by tonyp »

I've been on the Yutong, to compare it with the Custom Denning is chalk and cheese. To achieve 44 seats Yutong has reduced the seat pitch to such ridiculous dimensions that many people wouldn't be able to sit on them. I can only fit in the centre of the back row or the wheelchair seats down the front. The standing capacity in NSW is only 10 so the total capacity very poor. The Element has a design capacity of 80.

Yutong is a Chinese-designed and built bus for an international market. The Element is Australian designed and built for the Australian market. It's electronics are French and the axles German because we don't do those components here yet. Everybody here should be supporting an Australian product, particularly when it's clearly better than an imported product.
blow1940
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Re: QLD Electric Buses Listing

Post by blow1940 »

So you have riden on the vehicle's at Interline? They are not the same as the vehicle that trialed in Nowra.
tonyp
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Re: QLD Electric Buses Listing

Post by tonyp »

blow1940 wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 1:56 pm So you have riden on the vehicle's at Interline? They are not the same as the vehicle that trialed in Nowra.
No but I've seen the interior. The seats over the rear axle are unbelievably bad. The ride and internal noise level of the Yutong are better than BYD, I'll grant that much. It struck me as not a bad effort when it first came here (apart from the seating), but not up to the standard of Euro electric buses (which the Element and the upcoming Volgren Volvo represent in design). The really disappointing thing about the Yutong E12 is that it's a low floor design and sold as such all around the world. Only in Australia does it have a high floor. It's such a completely dumb thing to do.
tonyp
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Re: QLD Electric Buses Listing

Post by tonyp »

Brisbane’s China-built electric bus fleet a ‘disgrace’

Brisbane Council’s decision to source the city’s first electric buses from China rather than using local manufacturers has been labelled a “disgrace”.

Courier Mail
Felicity Ripper

May 25, 2021

Brisbane’s first electric buses have arrived – but the council’s decision to source them from China rather than using local manufacturers has been labelled a “disgrace”.

Chinese bus manufacturer Yutong – the world’s largest – was awarded a $3 million contract late last year to trial electric buses on the free City Loop bus route.

The buses have now arrived and Australian Manufacturing Workers Union assistant state secretary Bill Thanas said the Queensland economy missed out when council didn’t give the job to Volgren, which had been building the council’s diesel buses in Australia since 2008, or Bustech who is locally building 10 electric buses for the Queensland government.

“It’s disappointing,” Mr Thanas said.

“These companies had the potential to showcase what they could do, that they had the capacity to build electric buses right here in Queensland.”

However, it’s understood Volgren did not formally submit an offer during the initial e-bus tender because it could not meet the timeframe for submissions but was hoping to secure future tenders. When awarding the contract in October public transport chair Ryan Murphy said no Australian electric buses could operate and service Brisbane City Council’s requirements in the trial.

However, Mr Murphy said yesterday that since going to market in August 2019, Australian manufacturing of electric buses had “matured significantly” and the council would take that into account when buying new buses in the future.

“Under this e-bus trial, the Yutong buses will be effectively leased and if they fail to meet our requirements, they will be returned at no capital cost to ratepayers,” he said.

But Mr Thanas hit back at Mr Murphy’s earlier claims saying they didn’t stack up given Bustech’s successful tender with the State Government was also announced in October, and Volgren had been building electric buses in Melbourne since 2019.

Brisbane City Council has been working with Volgren for 12 years but decided not to extend a contract this year as it aims to transition to a zero-emissions fleet.

Brisbane City Council Labor leader Jared Cassidy said importing the buses was a slap in the face to Brisbane workers.

“LNP Lord Mayor Adrian Schrinner talks big about buying local but then snubs local manufacturers for foreign business,” Cr Cassidy said.

“This is disgraceful.”

BusTech and Volgren declined to comment on the arrival of buses imported from China.

A date for the e-bus rollout is yet to be confirmed.
Megumi
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Re: QLD Electric Buses Listing

Post by Megumi »

tonyp wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 9:02 am
blow1940 wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 6:30 pm The local content is not the paint. These have a number of systems and components that were sourced in Australia, Seats, destination system, passenger information, CCTV, TPMS, Fire suppression.
Most that would have to be fitted to any imported bus to enable them to operate here and can't really be considered build content. The drawbacks of the Yutong are the low passenger capacity and its inexplicable conversion to a low entry bus for the Australian market, when it's actually a low floor design.

Brisbane Buses should be looking at the Custom Denning Element which is Australian made, has a significantly higher capacity and is fully low floor.
100% agree with you. We need fully low floor, instead of the out-of-date low entry design.
tonyp
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Re: QLD Electric Buses Listing

Post by tonyp »

Megumi wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 11:11 pm
100% agree with you. We need fully low floor, instead of the out-of-date low entry design.
The irony is that the Yutong E12 is a virtually fully low floor model (except two seat rows at the back) and is sold as such around the world.

Image

It's only the Australian version that has a high floor. It's just nuts. There's absolutely no excuse for an electric or fuel cell bus not to have a fully low floor. The examples that do have a high floor at the back (BCI, BYD, Yutong and, I suspect, the upcoming Bustech ZDi Mark 2) are just poor or lazy design.

That will leave the fully low floor Custom Denning Element and Volgren Volvo electric as the best-practice class leaders among locally available electric buses.
Megumi
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Re: QLD Electric Buses Listing

Post by Megumi »

tonyp wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:08 pm
Megumi wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 11:11 pm
100% agree with you. We need fully low floor, instead of the out-of-date low entry design.
The irony is that the Yutong E12 is a virtually fully low floor model (except two seat rows at the back) and is sold as such around the world.

Image

It's only the Australian version that has a high floor. It's just nuts. There's absolutely no excuse for an electric or fuel cell bus not to have a fully low floor. The examples that do have a high floor at the back (BCI, BYD, Yutong and, I suspect, the upcoming Bustech ZDi Mark 2) are just poor or lazy design.

That will leave the fully low floor Custom Denning Element and Volgren Volvo electric as the best-practice class leaders among locally available electric buses.
Seems our market made this decision. Yutong has the ability to do the low-floor as they are offering the ZF-AV133 portal drive axle at the E12, including the Australian version, and they just simply raised up the floor for no reason (yep, it is vacant under the floor). If the market turn to choose a low floor unit, such as Volvo-Volgren electric, I think Yutong will follow.
tonyp
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Re: QLD Electric Buses Listing

Post by tonyp »

I think there's an uncritical (one might say bizarre) perception among operators and agencies in this country that a high aisle at the back is what passengers want and everybody including suppliers have tagged along with it. Nobody has ever actually asked passengers what they think as they struggle up stairs and fall down them. The Yutong E12 is actually a low floor bus - the high floor has been fitted only for the Australian market in line with this "local industry expectation".

There have been low floor diesel chassis available on the local market for some years (e.g Irisbus, Scania N series) but few takers. PTV has broken the spell with the recent low-floor Volvo hybrid orders for CDC and Latrobe Valley. Now, finally, Custom Denning has burst into the new electric market with an excellent example of a modern low floor and Volgren will soon follow with the Volvo chassis. If the other manufacturers don't follow suit they deserve sales oblivion, but unfortunately there are a lot of agencies and operators around Australia with low standards when it comes to bus functionality and passenger amenity and those manufacturers will likely continue to be rewarded with sales of their obsolescent products.

What a modern electric bus interior should be like - the Custom Denning Element:

Custom-Denning-Element-2-315x420.jpg
Custom-Denning-Element-2-315x420.jpg (33.34 KiB) Viewed 3342 times
BAMBAM
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Re: QLD Electric Buses Listing

Post by BAMBAM »

What happened to the CD Element Bus in QLD, Haven't heard anyone in QLD using it or trialing it
tonyp
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Re: QLD Electric Buses Listing

Post by tonyp »

BAMBAM wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:29 pm What happened to the CD Element Bus in QLD, Haven't heard anyone in QLD using it or trialing it
Don't know at the moment. A whole lot of operators and Translink have driven it. Probably the quiet before the storm as they're in full production now at St Marys. There must be an order or so in the offing.
Megumi
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Re: QLD Electric Buses Listing

Post by Megumi »

tonyp wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:19 pm
BAMBAM wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:29 pm What happened to the CD Element Bus in QLD, Haven't heard anyone in QLD using it or trialing it
Don't know at the moment. A whole lot of operators and Translink have driven it. Probably the quiet before the storm as they're in full production now at St Marys. There must be an order or so in the offing.
But I still support the Volvo-Volgren joint solution, which I have been using to looking and riding.
verbatim9
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Re: QLD Electric Buses Listing

Post by verbatim9 »

Merc1107
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Re: QLD Electric Buses Listing

Post by Merc1107 »

Great window line by the back doors...
tonyp
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Re: QLD Electric Buses Listing

Post by tonyp »

Merc1107 wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:41 pm Great window line by the back doors...
Written in irony I assume?! Those seats up the "stairway to heaven" at the back look like you have to take your legs off to sit in them. And watch your head on the ceiling when you stand up. It looks like an illustration from the "how not to" chapter in a bus design manual. What sort of unique talent does it take to transform a half-reasonable low floor bus design into that mess? BCC should just put it out of its misery and order some CD Elements, or wait for the Volgren Volvo.
Megumi
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Re: QLD Electric Buses Listing

Post by Megumi »

verbatim9 wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:30 pm 9 News-----> First look inside Brisbane's new 'luxury' electric busesImage
The URL is unaccessible now, but anyway, I have seen the photo from Google. Can't see any reason how BCC can ruin such a stunning bus with the crap interior design. The Yutong E12 in Singapore is just amazing. So, what's wrong with our country?
Megumi
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Re: QLD Electric Buses Listing

Post by Megumi »

tonyp wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:55 pm
Merc1107 wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:41 pm Great window line by the back doors...
Written in irony I assume?! Those seats up the "stairway to heaven" at the back look like you have to take your legs off to sit in them. And watch your head on the ceiling when you stand up. It looks like an illustration from the "how not to" chapter in a bus design manual. What sort of unique talent does it take to transform a half-reasonable low floor bus design into that mess? BCC should just put it out of its misery and order some CD Elements, or wait for the Volgren Volvo.
I am afraid the BCC will ask the CD or Volvo to add some steps on the back of the bus just like the Yutong. :lol:
The currently MAN artic buses are based on a fully low floor design, and the BCC added some steps.
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