Hunters Hill coaches

[hugh45]

I have had another glance at the photo of the bus in front of the Syd Wood Building apparently owned by M.Sullivan. I found the writing on the side of the bus hard to read and thought I had read Pagewood on the side of the bus. On closer examination this is not so, however Doncaster Junction is clearly displayed and the bus is of Victorian origin. I had originally put two and two together as I thought this bus operated at Pagewood and there was an operator, Mick Sullivan there up to 1947. Maybe if it is the same person he continued bus operations later in Victoria.

[Fleet Lists]

I had believed you and had changed the photo gallery accordingly but will now have to change that back.

[Red and Cream]

I am interested in the photo of the bus outside the Syd Wood building apparently belonging to M.Sullivan. The word Pagewood is written on the side of the bus. On checking records of Route 138 which ran in Pagewood, the bus operator was Mick Sullivan who sold out to Reo Motors in 1946 or 1947. This bus would have been one of the earliest underfloor buses to operate in Sydney at that time. Does anyone know its registration number.

The bus in the photo is unfortunately not an underfloor but a forward entrance with the motor sitting beside the driver, usually a dead giveaway is the grille in the frontal body, sometimes elaborately covered with brightwork or as GM says in these cases just a wire mesh effect.

[tonyp]

Although the thread has deviated from HHBC, which owned only four of those forward control buses with Syd Wood's "American-styled" front end, it has been an interesting photo display demonstrating how absolutely good-looking those particular Syd Wood buses were. The post 1950 Syd Wood front end might have been more contemporary but didn't have quite the same flair. It's a great shame that at least one of these 1940s style Syd Wood buses hasn't been preserved in one of the major bus museums, to my knowledge, because they were one of the absolute highlights of the Australian bodybuilders' craft. The predominance in these museums of multiple examples of various government buses, mostly with very indifferent styling, still troubles me as being very one-dimensional and neglectful of the full scope of Australian bus types warranting preservation.

The numbers of forward control buses obviously available on the market from the late 1930s onwards is also surprising to me to discover and it makes me wonder why so many major private operators were still buying, by-then antiquated, normal control buses even into the 1950s. For example, even HHBC was buying a number of normal-controls after WW2 even after they had already acquired a couple of those forward control buses. Admittedly, the normal control buses could be converted to forward control and a number were a mere few years later, which sort of reinforces the question of why they introduced them as normal control when new in the first place.

[Red and Cream]

I think it was just the period that people and companies were living in at that time tonyp.
What with the 2nd world war starting in 1939, any new developments were going to be severely limited with all materials being channelled into war related items, even any personnel who would normally be designing new vehicles would not be able to implement any of their ideas as they too would also be involved with wartime duties , so i think the normal control bus just continued by default to be the main option. Even after the war i imagine it was hard for operators to get much variety so they took what they could, not out of choice, but they needed a bus. Also noting that in Hunters Hill's purchases of Reo's, which were manufactured in the US, they would have much more readily available to be purchased than anything else say from the UK which was having dire restriction on even acquiring vehicles for own their domestic use.

[tonyp]

However, I notice that some of those finest Syd Wood designs were produced during WW2. As the war developed, I imagine the supply of American bus chassis (forward control) would have dwindled, but normal control chassis, which were basically truck chassis that could be used for either trucks or buses, were likely still in ready supply from USA. I think that 1940s Syd Wood Art Deco/streamliner style rates right up the top in the history of public transport vehicle design in Australia, alongside the likes of the R class tram and the Spirit of Progress. Syd Wood may have been a Pom, but he certainly had an eye for where the best design came from, which was America. It does truly disturb me to think that there may not be a preserved example left anywhere, let alone where it should be in a major museum.

[lunchbox]

A quiet thumbs up to Reg Ansett.

[Fleet Lists]

It has now been very quiet here for the past month.
Until today I have continued to add Hunters Hill and/or Syd Woo photos to the Photo Gallery on a daily basis. However today has been the last one added. ere are links to the two albums concerned https://www.busaustralia.com/gallery/th ... ershillbus and https://www.busaustralia.com/gallery/th ... h=syd_wood
If is felt that any other photos should be added please let me know and I will add them but not on a daly basis, keeping in mind that we should have permission to use the photos concerned.

[Red and Cream]

Fleet Lists when looking at your link to that great Syd Wood Photo Gallery, i noticed an error in the text on Centralian's photo of the Blacktown Bus Service depot in regard to the Bedford m/o 4533 being new to them. It came to them from Deane of Turramurra and before that i have a note on it as having come from Clinton's of Camden. I know Clinton's had a motor vehicle sales business in Camden at the time but am not sure if they operated it on a service or were just the selling agent for the Bedford ( as it was over 50 years ago since i made the entry in my notes i am not really sure but it would have been unusual of me to note a dealers name in registration section of my notes so i think they did run a bus service service at the time ???????????? ) Maybe someone else could know about it.

A shot of m/o 4533 when owned by Deane in Kissing Point Road Turramurra ? on 28/8/1963..

[Fleet Lists]

Thanks for that. I took the comments from https://www.busaustralia.com/forum/view ... 51#p296451 back in 2007 where I missed your comments which I have now added although I am not sure how MacIntosh came into things.

[robert]

s

I know Clinton's had a motor vehicle sales business in Camden at the time but am not sure if they operated it on a service or were just the selling agent for the Bedford ( as it was over 50 years ago since i made the entry in my notes i am not really sure but it would have been unusual of me to note a dealers name in registration section of my notes so i think they did run a bus service service at the time ???????????? ) Maybe someone else could know about it.

I am not aware of Clintons Motors ever operating buses. But curiously I once visited their premises in Campbelltown during the 1970s, when I was involved with their superannuation plan run by my employer. There was no obvious sign then of bus operation.

Your photo of 4533 is most likely in Kissing Point Rd, as route 166 ran the full length of that road.

Thanks for that. I took the comments from https://www.busaustralia.com/forum/view ... 51#p296451 back in 2007 where I missed your comments which I have now added although I am not sure how MacIntosh came into things.

MacIntosh ran Blacktown Bus Co for a while.

[Fleet Lists]

Thanks Robert, I have added that in at the expense of a few other words as I had reached the limit of data which can be included.

[Centralian]

Beautiful shot of mo 4533 Red & Cream. If I stare at it long enough I start hearing the classic Bedford motor and the clunk of the gear change.
Hope this isn't a medical problem.

[hugh45]

According to the fleet lists for Deane, the Bedford m/o 4533 was previously with Col Sinclair in 1962 and prior to that with Clinton Motors for the transport of coal miners.

[robert]

According to the fleet lists for Deane, the Bedford m/o 4533 was previously with Col Sinclair in 1962 and prior to that with Clinton Motors for the transport of coal miners.

I am learning new info about Clintons as a bus operator here. I have googled Clintons Motors and have found this link:

https://www.clintonstoyota.com.au/about ... ns-toyota/

There you will see that the Clinton family formed Clintons Transports Pty Ltd in the 1930s/1940s, supporting their other business which included mining in the Burragorang Valley. And further on that they delivered Bedfords, among a number of other brands. All pointing to Clintons running bus services (using Bedfords) to transport miners.

Perhaps Higletts somehow took over their bus operations(??). Somewhere among my gathered paperwork there is an article in Truck & Bus Transportation about Higletts, but I cannot find it quickly.

I wonder if GM or others know anything about Clintons.

[GM]

Robert, have a number of Indices for T & BT. Will have a look to-morrow re Clintons and Higlett's. GM

[Centralian]

Without wanting to take this post further from its origins, I do have some minimal notes re a bus operator from the 1940's Pippens Bus Service that ran 'a regular route' from Camden to Burragorang. The author of a book published in 2005 'Valley of Wealth - A Burragorang Coal Story' commented that a Peter Withers of Katoomba took control of Pippens in October 1948. Apparently the business went downhill and the said Peter Withers took his own life a few years later.

Unfortunately I haven't found anything further about Pippens BS (other than some 1947 timetables via Trove) or a Peter Withers. Perhaps this information may help someone to find a connection to Clintons running buses into the Burragorang.

[Red and Cream]

Beautiful shot of mo 4533 Red & Cream. If I stare at it long enough I start hearing the classic Bedford motor and the clunk of the gear change.
Hope this isn't a medical problem.

Thanks Centralian, those great Bedford sound effects would have certainly been heard as it made its way up Kissing Point Road to the station. As far as the medical condition you describe Centralian, we have all been described by people outside our hobby as "bus nuts" so maybe they see something in us that we are not willing to acknowledge.

According to the fleet lists for Deane, the Bedford m/o 4533 was previously with Col Sinclair in 1962 and prior to that with Clinton Motors for the transport of coal miners.

Thanks for the update hugh45

[Ben O]

Hi all,

More tangential information here.. I apologise. By coincidence I recently researched Higlett's as a tangent to investigating the Lee family of Picton Omnibus, which in itself was a tangent when looking into the Heise family of Cooma Coaches!

Several factors arose in the 1940's that saw bus and hire car operations flourish in Camden in that decade. The opening of guest houses in the Burragorang Valley created the need for transport off Pansy - the Camden train - out the rugged roads to The Oaks, Burragorang and further west. The decade also seemed to be a formative period for the establishment of school bus services across regional New South Wales. The passenger services attracted the interest of local P&C' committees, who saw opportunity in using the vehicles that were otherwise unused during school hours. Some early timetables also refer to miners' services.

Jack Pippen was a farmer who saw opportunity in transporting hoildyamakers to guest houses. The service ran Camden - The Oaks - Nattai - Burragorang House - Bimlow. Noting Nattai is the furthest western point of the current Region 15 network, I could not determine the exact location of Bimlow, which was a further hour beyond Nattai in Pippen's timetable. Jack Pippen passed away 14 August 1946. In or around December 1948, the service passed from Mrs M. Pippen (widow?) to Mr Peter S. Withers. Despite several operators regularly publishing passenger timetables and advertising special trips in the Camden News, Withers disappeared from the Camden News immediately after December 1948.

George W. Higlett moved to Camden from Sydney in 1948, purchasing a mail run between Camden and Yerranderie (40 miles / 65 km), using a car and trailer. He partnered with Gordon L. Lee to commence a bus service from Camden - Burragorang - Yerranderie commencing Tuesday 1st June 1948. Expansion occurred very quickly. By the end of 1948, additional routes were operated and the fleet consisted of 6 buses, followed by an extra 2 purchased on local services at Picton in 1949.

Regards,
Ben

[lunchbox]

Back to Hunters Hill........
There's a plaque alongside the footpath on the north side of Church Street in Hunters Hill, approximately 50m from Mount Street. It bears the words "HUNTERS HILL BUS DEPOT. 28 CHURCH STREET WAS THE SITE OF THE BUS DEPOT SERVING HUNTERS HILL AND WOOLWICH RESIDENTS, WITH THE ROUTE NO. 234 BUS SERVICE GLADESVILLE TO VALENTIA STREET WHARF, FROM 1923 TO 1954.
HUNTERS HILL HISTORICAL SOCIETY
BUS COMMENTS BY KEN BUTT"

(7090,7540)

[tonyp]

The site is now 26A Church St which, before the 1920s, would have been the backyard of no. 28. The front of the current building there almost looks as though it was designed to mimic the facade of the former depot but is set further back. The depot shed was a pitched-roofed industrial building and was almost at the footpath. Funnily enough there's a bus stop there now I see.

https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-33.834 ... 384!8i8192

I tried to spot the plaque in Streetview but I can't see it.

[lunchbox]

Thanks tonyp. The 1943 aerial photos clearly show the depot shed at what is now 26A Church Street, which, in earlier times would have been the back yard of No.28, on the corner of Mount Street. So the wording on the plaque is correct. The 1943 aerials even show a bus parked opposite the depot!
(7145)

[tonyp]

Thanks tonyp. The 1943 aerial photos clearly show the depot shed at what is now 26A Church Street, which, in earlier times would have been the back yard of No.28, on the corner of Mount Street. So the wording on the plaque is correct. The 1943 aerials even show a bus parked opposite the depot!
(7145)

There were usually plenty of buses parked opposite it, as recorded by Leon Manny!


https://www.busaustralia.com/gallery/di ... ?pid=20051
https://www.busaustralia.com/gallery/di ... ?pid=20077
https://www.busaustralia.com/gallery/di ... ?pid=20063

[lunchbox]

The "Ken Butt" plaque (tonyp post, above) is adjacent to the boundary fence post between Nos. 26 & 26A, Church St, Hunters Hill.
7540

[tonyp]

Well well, here's MO 4576, last seen dying at Deepwater, being renovated and converted, seen here from the new owner's photos on the Bus Conversions Facebook page. So far, he's kept it original - stripped out and with a solar array on the roof but still preserving the original roof underneath. He says the bus is still solid, 2 cm Tassie Oak floors and tinted windows. Seats are out but hopefully stored. Somebody has spoken my silent thoughts in comments on the photos when they say it should be preserved in a museum but that won't happen unless it's green and cream. It's OK to save many examples of a government bus, but we're lucky to save one example of scores of significant private buses. Sad.