Syd Wood, bus builders, 1912-1962

[tonyp]

MO 5473 would have come along after my time at Chatswood. Before that, I was treated to the quaint sight of half-cab single deck British buses running, as I recall, to Mt Colah(?) and Artarmon.

On another thread (Hunters Hill Bus Co photos), GM has posted photos of new buses parked outside the Chapel Rd frontage of the original Syd Wood carriageworks. Does anybody have a photo of the building without a bus parked in front of it?

[robert]

Ahhh, you're making me feel quite nostalgic about walking between home and Chatswood station along Railway Street and seeing the wealth of private buses at the stands there. HHBC Reos, Deane's ex Adelaide and ex Canberra, etc, etc. And, in earlier times, when I lived in nearby Roseville, half cabs (as seen by Tony also), colourful liveries, drivers collecting fares without issuing tickets (in some cases), tickets with company or NSWOPA brandings, drivers with dustcoats, drivers talking to passengers, real destination rolls, hand-operated mechanical turn indicators . . . I better stop before I blubber.

[tonyp]

Ahhh, you're making me feel quite nostalgic about walking between home and Chatswood station along Railway Street and seeing the wealth of private buses at the stands there. HHBC Reos, Deane's ex Adelaide and ex Canberra, etc, etc. And, in earlier times, when I lived in nearby Roseville, half cabs (as seen by Tony also), colourful liveries, drivers collecting fares without issuing tickets (in some cases), tickets with company or NSWOPA brandings, drivers with dustcoats, drivers talking to passengers, real destination rolls, hand-operated mechanical turn indicators . . . I better stop before I blubber.

They were great days, also notable for the strong customer-focus in the private sector, both in operation and bus design, something now almost entirely absent in the huge anonymous government agency-run urban bus sector. Many of the privates try to keep it up but they're so constrained by regulations and procedures imposed on them. Also sad is the lost potential for preservation of a better range of the rich history of private buses. The disaster of Deepwater didn't help but there are also so many buses that were saved for a while, then lost. What happened to MO 4576, such a significant bus in the Syd Wood output, saved for a while then left to rot into the ground, is terrible.

https://www.busaustralia.com/gallery/di ... ?pid=19766

[tonyp]

Another Syd Wood milestone in 1933, significant as the end of government buses in NSW approaches, is the first new government bus ordered and built for DRTT, Leyland Titan TD1 MO 9, represented here by a Trux model from the Sydney Bus Museum shop catalogue.

[boronia]

This is an English model with a representative Leyland factory body.

No doubt Syd did a fairly good imitation of it with "m/o 1009".

[Red and Cream]

MO 5473 would have come along after my time at Chatswood. Before that, I was treated to the quaint sight of half-cab single deck British buses running, as I recall, to Mt Colah(?) and Artarmon.

My first job after leaving school was working for A.J.Benjamin's Department Store in Victoria Avenue Chatswood and one of things to look forward to every day was lunch time when i walked down to the great little park on the eastern side of the railway station ( when it was a railway station and not just a developers plaything.) where there were large shady trees, tables and seats and grassy areas to relax in and eat your lunch but the best thing it was right beside the bus terminus where i could watch buses such as White's, Fords, Bedfords, Daimlers, Leylands, AEC, from operators such as Ron Glass, Brooks Bros, Longueville Motor Bus Company, Royle Bros and the Government services.
On the Western side of the station the seating was more austere with just bench seating on the footpath near the bus stands although beside the Hunters Hill stand was a substantial wooden waiting shed. Buses that could be seen on this side were Whites, Reos, Thornycrofts, Albions, Leylands, Internationals, Chevs, from the following operators whose stands from the front were Artarmon Red ( in Victoria Avenue) followed in Railway Street by Hunters Hill, A.j.Wagg and finally Kuringai Bus Co.
At the time there were 9 operators operating to Chatswood, would that be amongst the largest number terminating at a railway station

Also sad is the lost potential for preservation of a better range of the rich history of private buses. The disaster of Deepwater didn't help but there are also so many buses that were saved for a while, then lost. What happened to MO 4576, such a significant bus in the Syd Wood output, saved for a while then left to rot into the ground, is terrible.

Hunters Hill coaches REO MO-4576.jpg

Yes it is unfortunate that buses initially saved end up being broken up but unfortunately unless you have covered accommodation for them you are fighting a losing battle especially with wooden framed vehicles. I have been fortunate over time to have had the space and covering for the buses i have owned and i was lucky to have had the ST.ives Leyland Royal Tiger Cub ex m/o 937 for near 22 years only because Ron Stewart who was the manager of Forest Coachlines at the time rang me and offered it to me as he knew that another person was interested in acquiring it to turn into a motorhome. I feel privileged to have owned and used that wonderful bus for so long.

[tonyp]

This is an English model with a representative Leyland factory body.

No doubt Syd did a fairly good imitation of it with "m/o 1009".

From the photo of Sydney no.9 in Greg Travers' history it's almost exactly identical to this model to the point that it could be promoted as a spot the differences game. Obviously DRTT took the British design straight out of the catalogue and gave it to Syd Wood to build. Syd Wood also produced DRTT's first new single deck bus at the same time, no. 101.

[tonyp]

At the time there were 9 operators operating to Chatswood, would that be amongst the largest number terminating at a railway station

Chatswood was certainly a transport cornucopia, to the background of the distinctive whirr of the standard suburban sets pulling in and out of the station. I was hoping they'd keep that large wooden waiting shed as a heritage item but everything has been swept away and it is now unrecognisable. In the afternoons, HHBC had an inspector on duty and buses would be leaving 5 or 10 minutes apart, by the 1960s always the newest in the fleet, Syd Wood Reos MOs 4088, 4269, 4322, 4399 and 4446, later joined by the three CCMC Reos and the two fabulous CCMC VAL Bedfords. Sometimes the bus that Dave Wilson aptly calls Hootenanny, the ancient and ugly Propert Reo MO 4320, would make an unwelcome appearance (rather like the "oh no, not the Kooleen" trauma at Valentia St, though in that case it was the newest ferry, not the oldest, that was so disliked!). Clarrie Paull must have been desperately short of capacity to buy that rattletrap, but presumably could not get new deliveries fast enough.

Another group of Syd Wood products that would be seen daily around Chatswood, Lane Cove, Crows Nest and Wynyard were the Longueville Bus Co's Daimlers:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/intervene/2658417420

Edit:

Just scrolling a little further through those Lindsay Bridge photos, I've uncovered a trifecta of 1960s images, a group with three bodybuilders at the time represented, Syd Wood, Coachmaster and CCMC. First is Longueville Bus, second is Hunters Hill Bus (route 43, Ken Butt era) and the third CCMC I can't quite identify - it looks like route 64 but that doesn't gel with what's in Robert's route list, so maybe somebody can help. I'm pretty sure the group is outside the wooden bus shelter at Chatswood Station.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/intervene ... otostream/

[Red and Cream]

The unidentified bus is a Barnes vehicle probably m/o 5030 FE Bedford CCMC ex Victorian JDB 016 and that was one of his buses from his Victorian operations and naturally the JDB stands for J.D.BARNES. Yes you are correct tonyp, that is that great waiting shed at Chatswood.

Here is a Don Allitt photo of m/o 5030.

The Longueville Daimler in the bus enthusiasts tour photo is wrongly identified as m/o 134 but it is m/o 174

[robert]

More nostalgia. As the photo of 5030 shows, the third bus in the group of 3 would be on route 54, Chatswood-Northern Suburbs Cemetery-Macquarie Uni (the extension to the uni started when the uni opened in March 1967). Barnes operated 54 from May 1966 till October 1970. Route 43 started in January 1967, and at that stage only ran Chatswood-Ryde (with a few trips to Macquarie Uni, but via Epping Rd). I also fondly remember the waiting shed, as timetables for some of the routes (especially those of HHBC) were displayed in a case inside. The shed was well used. I'd say the shed disappeared with the overall station redevelopment in the mid-1970s (?).

[hugh45]

At the time there were 9 operators operating to Chatswood, would that be amongst the largest number terminating at a railway station(copied from Red & Cream's post). Hurstville had 11 operators in the 1950's They were Punchbowl Bus, Narwee Bus, Red Top Transport, Saint's Peakhurst, Pioneer Coaches, C.A.Leach, E.H.Blyth, Kogarah Bus, Red Transit, A.J Moore and Jamieson's. This was reduced to 10 when Punchbowl and Narwee Bus Companies merged.

[robert]

At the time there were 9 operators operating to Chatswood, would that be amongst the largest number terminating at a railway station(copied from Red & Cream's post). Hurstville had 11 operators in the 1950's They were Punchbowl Bus, Narwee Bus, Red Top Transport, Saint's Peakhurst, Pioneer Coaches, C.A.Leach, E.H.Blyth, Kogarah Bus, Red Transit, A.J Moore and Jamieson's. This was reduced to 10 when Punchbowl and Narwee Bus Companies merged.

I suspect the number of operators serving Parramatta station might have been slightly greater than Hurstville or Chatswood? But they would have been probably the top three.

[Fleet Lists]

Bankstown also had 10 - that I can think of:
Chester Hill,
Bass Hill,
West Bankstown,
McVicar,
Punchbowl,
Narwee,
Eldridge Road,
Red Top,
Saints,
Green Line.
But of these Green Line and Narwee may have gone before Saints took over route 88 from West Bankstown. So probably only 9 was the maximum at any one time.

[robert]

I believe that Narwee became Punchbowl in 1958 (but FL was closer to the action then?). 88 went to Saints in 1964 and Green Line to Punchbowl in 1968. So Bankstown total may be 9?

[Centralian]

I suspect the number of operators serving Parramatta station might have been slightly greater than Hurstville or Chatswood? But they would have been probably the top three.

I'll try the Parramatta list from memory :
Bosnjak/P'tta Bus Co
East Parramatta
Western Road
Cumberland
Harris Park
Parramatta - Ryde
Willcox
Parramatta - Villawood
Cleary Bros
Merrylands Bus Co.
I have a gut feeling there was another, but can't remember, and my old fleet lists have been archived in the garage. A few of those terminated at the northern end of P'tta but all went past the station.
Edit: There was also Helmut Delfs/Toongabbie.

[Fleet Lists]

I believe that Narwee became Punchbowl in 1958 (but FL was closer to the action then?). 88 went to Saints in 1964 and Green Line to Punchbowl in 1968. So Bankstown total may be 9?

That is correct BUT from 1948 to 1953 route 88, before it was operated by West Bankstown, was operated by ED Benjamin who would have made a 10th operator during that period. I can only recall him operating one half cab bus in a brown livery.

The list this morning was just written off the top of the head.

[tonyp]

The Longueville Daimler in the bus enthusiasts tour photo is wrongly identified as m/o 134 but it is m/o 174

Its two sisters date from 1947-48 and this bus is from 1952. I think there was a number plate swap because Leon Manny in his book shows a photo dated 1952 of the three and the early buses clearly bear the plates MOs 174 and 646, while the newer bus (identifiable by its different radiator grille) bears the plate MO 334. (The number plates must have swapped back again by 1968.) With HHBC's MOs 4118 and 012, also of 1952, these were probably the last Syd Wood buses with the 1930s-1940s American-style front. By the end of the 1950s, the nearly century-long American design and technology influence on all modes of NSW transport was basically at an end.

[Red and Cream]

The Longueville Daimler in the bus enthusiasts tour photo is wrongly identified as m/o 134 but it is m/o 174

Its two sisters date from 1947-48 and this bus is from 1952. I think there was a number plate swap because Leon Manny in his book shows a photo dated 1952 of the three and the early buses clearly bear the plates MOs 174 and 646, while the newer bus (identifiable by its different radiator grille) bears the plate MO 334. (The number plates must have swapped back again by 1968.)

No there was no plate swap tonyp as m/o 174 and m/o 646 were built with enclosed radiators behind the frontal bodywork and suffered from overheating and when m/o 334 was built with the exposed radiator and found to be a better set up the other two Daimlers were fitted with an exposed radiator.

[tonyp]

Another Syd Wood bus, a bit out of the ordinary. An AEC Q trolleybus for Sydney, one of two bodied by Syd Wood in 1936-37.

[tonyp]

No there was no plate swap tonyp as m/o 174 and m/o 646 were built with enclosed radiators behind the frontal bodywork and suffered from overheating and when m/o 334 was built with the exposed radiator and found to be a better set up the other two Daimlers were fitted with an exposed radiator.

It's good to have these little mysteries resolved, even after many years!

[Red and Cream]

Another Syd Wood bus, a bit out of the ordinary. An AEC Q trolleybus for Sydney, one of two bodied by Syd Wood in 1936-37.

Surely Park Royal the English company who built Sydney trolley bus number 3 must have supplied the drawings to Syd Wood for the construction of numbers 4 and 5 as i have seen a photo of 3 just after it was landed on the dock from the UK and i could see no differences in the bodywork between them. Even some of the fittings seem to be supplied to Woods as those Marker lights above the front doorway seem to be the same.

[boronia]

Perhaps a CKD kit from PRV, assembled by Syd Wood?

Not an uncommon arrangement in those days. Perhaps the same with the Leyland deckers?

[Red and Cream]

Perhaps a CKD kit from PRV, assembled by Syd Wood?

Not an uncommon arrangement in those days. Perhaps the same with the Leyland deckers?

Could quite possibly be boronia.

[system improver]

An interesting example of a Syd Wood forward entrance bus that was also an early NSW example of a centre door was MO 5473, operated by Deanes out of Chatswood (a route later taken over by N&W). I never recall seeing this bus at Chatswood myself and wonder when it dates from (looks like c1960) and where it went to?


Deanes.jpg
[provenance of photo unknown]

Ex MBBL No 37, reg GOP 137 new 11/56.

[boronia]

Also sad is the lost potential for preservation of a better range of the rich history of private buses. The disaster of Deepwater didn't help but there are also so many buses that were saved for a while, then lost. What happened to MO 4576, such a significant bus in the Syd Wood output, saved for a while then left to rot into the ground, is terrible.

The problem is that a lot of people acquire retired buses out of nostalgia (or obsession) without having the resources (or often even knowledge) to maintain them. Euphoria when they drive one out of the depot, but once things start to go wrong, they are lost, or faced with huge bills. They then can't find someone else to take it over, so off to the tip it has to go.

The internet now makes such restorations more viable, as it is much easier to locate information and even parts. But I do get worried when a new owner posts a photo of, say, a transmission dipstick on his vehicle and has to ask what it is for.