STA Observations 2021-2022

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
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Cazza
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by Cazza »

You’ll find everything was close to fine in Australia and across the world until early 2020.

You’ll also find a lot of things change when the WHO declares a global pandemic...

Sitting at the front of buses just happened to be one of those things, along with leaving your house, seeing people and going skiing in the Swiss Alps.

I’m really not sure what you’re point is here, “Oh no, the transport agencies responded to a once in a lifetime global pandemic that’s crippling nations, creating all sorts of new laws/regulations and tearing lives apart. We cannot have this happen. Burn them at the stake!”

Sure, you probably could have people sitting up the front of the bus now but is it really an issue if people don’t? Either way, when the right time comes, you’ll see this rule taken away (along with being able to board from the front too).
Cazza
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by Cazza »

tonyp wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 8:58 am The situation was ludicrous, with front seats taped off yet people allowed to board past the driver. Sort of pointless really.
Here in Brisbane, we are still rear door boarding only (except for whoever needs the front door). Although most drivers will still use the front door in situations where common sense prevails
tonyp
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by tonyp »

Cazza wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:11 am
Here in Brisbane, we are still rear door boarding only (except for whoever needs the front door). Although most drivers will still use the front door in situations where common sense prevails
Brisbane has been one of the sensible operations. The irony is that the same union (RTBU) that allowed entry by the rear doors in Brisbane militantly opposed it in Sydney. Likewise, the TWU allowed entry by the rear doors in ACT but militantly opposed it in NSW. I can't think of any reason other than politics. Labor governments in ACT and Queensland; Liberal government in NSW, hence must be opposed on principle, that being more important than protecting people from risk of infection.
LB608
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by LB608 »

STA have a electric bus m/o6520,Custom Denning,Demonstrater,anyone know where it is based?
Last edited by LB608 on Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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ScaniaGrenda
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by ScaniaGrenda »

Is this a Demonstrator bus or full time bus with STA?
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boronia
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by boronia »

With that number, more likely a demonstrator?
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tonyp
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by tonyp »

About half a dozen Elements have been/ are being built and they are being distributed to various operators. I don't know the details yet except that Busways in Sydney is one and I think a couple are going interstate.
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boronia
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by boronia »

LB608 wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:38 pm STA have a electric bus m/o6520,Custom Denning,Demonstrater,anyone know where it is based?
Waverley, acc to a new FB post. 14 will be supplied.
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tonyp
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by tonyp »

Yes Waverley, running from tomorrow. Custom Denning photo:

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Jurassic_Joke
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by Jurassic_Joke »

Yay, finally! Can’t wait to give this one a try.

Looks a lot better than that Gemilang BYO model that TSA has. Nice touch to see the now-old 0405NH Merc gas bus no. 2000 right behind it with a subtle reminder of how old technology CNG is now and electric is the way of the future
tonyp
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by tonyp »

Jurassic_Joke wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:19 am Yay, finally! Can’t wait to give this one a try.

Looks a lot better than that Gemilang BYO model that TSA has. Nice touch to see the now-old 0405NH Merc gas bus no. 2000 right behind it with a subtle reminder of how old technology CNG is now and electric is the way of the future
Will be interested to hear your impressions by comparison with your experience on the other electric models running in Sydney. I'm not sure if it's actually entering route service tomorrow or they're taking it for trial runs.

Not only CNG, but hybrid is now obsolescent (just when some operations are enthusiastically buying them!). Low entry should be next to join the dinosaurs. Everything is changing rapidly at the moment. This Custom Denning will certainly set some new standards. The best thing is that it brings European thinking to Australian electric buses, so we can leave the Chinese rubbish behind. What happens to the BYD-based venture at Moss Vale will be interesting to see, all depends on sales basically.
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by Jurassic_Joke »

tonyp wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:50 am
Will be interested to hear your impressions by comparison with your experience on the other electric models running in Sydney. I'm not sure if it's actually entering route service tomorrow or they're taking it for trial runs.

Not only CNG, but hybrid is now obsolescent (just when some operations are enthusiastically buying them!). Low entry should be next to join the dinosaurs. Everything is changing rapidly at the moment. This Custom Denning will certainly set some new standards.
I likewise look forward to coming across this new bus and seeing how it goes, so far for now, looks good.

As far as I am aware the only other two electric models in Sydney at the moment are the 4 Gemilang BYD’s and the lone Yutong demonstrator, all of which are with TSA R6.

Of the two, the Yutong by far fares much better in my opinion, and it is a pity it only seems to be rarer these days. Which is also funny, because TSA’s diesel powered Merc. Gemilangs they only just got - those ones, I think they’re a fine product in relation to seating and ride quality, its just a shame the same can’t be said about the BYD.

The Gemilang BYD has too loud engine sound for an electric bus in the interior, when quietness is meant to be a selling point. Still quieter than diesel of course. Furthermore, the Gemilang has too few seats, it feels more like a midibus and I find the ride quality really not the best.

The Yutong is much quieter which I appreciate, and also has front seats - the Gemilang omits these. In fact the Yutong has more seats as it is - 40 seats vs Gemilangs 36.

It’s a pity to see according to Fleet Lists Transit Systems has more Gemilang BYD on order (why not the Yutong instead?) - however I see these are BYD D9RA instead of the original BYD K9RA ones - I’m hopeful the letters mean there is some difference, however seeing these have the same paltry 36 seats, I’m not getting my hopes up.
Linto63
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by Linto63 »

Jurassic_Joke wrote: Yay, finally! Can’t wait to give this one a try.
Presuming it has just been delivered, there will be several weeks if not longer required to train drivers and maintenance staff before it enters commercial service.
tonyp wrote: What happens to the BYD-based venture at Moss Vale will be interesting to see, all depends on sales basically.
Obviously, but it would be reasonable to assume that the venture's proponent did their due diligence. Your assumption that BYD will never gain any traction appears to be based on wishful thinking rather than anything concrete. Love them or loathe them, Asian manufacturers have gained a fair share of the diesel market, no reason to suggest this will change as we transition to electric.
Jurassic_Joke wrote: As far as I am aware the only other two electric models in Sydney at the moment are the 4 Gemilang BYD’s and the lone Yutong demonstrator, all of which are with TSA R6.
Plus a BCI Citirider at Interline
tonyp
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by tonyp »

Jurassic_Joke wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:48 am
Of the two, the Yutong by far fares much better in my opinion, and it is a pity it only seems to be rarer these days. Which is also funny, because TSA’s diesel powered Merc. Gemilangs they only just got - those ones, I think they’re a fine product in relation to seating and ride quality, its just a shame the same can’t be said about the BYD.

The Gemilang BYD has too loud engine sound for an electric bus in the interior, when quietness is meant to be a selling point. Still quieter than diesel of course. Furthermore, the Gemilang has too few seats, it feels more like a midibus and I find the ride quality really not the best.

The Yutong is much quieter which I appreciate, and also has front seats - the Gemilang omits these. In fact the Yutong has more seats as it is - 40 seats vs Gemilangs 36.

It’s a pity to see according to Fleet Lists Transit Systems has more Gemilang BYD on order (why not the Yutong instead?) - however I see these are BYD D9RA instead of the original BYD K9RA ones - I’m hopeful the letters mean there is some difference, however seeing these have the same paltry 36 seats, I’m not getting my hopes up.
Your observations on Yutong vs BYD concur with mine but Yutong is also far from perfect.

Apparently charging infrastructure for 12 buses is being installed at Waverley. I don't know what the charging situation is with this one bus that's already there. They don't necessarily have to be charged at their home depot but obviously that means extra distance to deploy in service.
stajourneyman
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by stajourneyman »

It seems that W has also received at least seven full length Scania 280s with Bustech bodies from P.
Last edited by stajourneyman on Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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J_Busworth
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by J_Busworth »

The Element is being driven by two driver trainers for a week or so to put it through its paces, in the same way the Yutong was tested last year with the same drivers.

Waverley gained the full length VSTs when they lost their remaining Citaros to Port Botany
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tonyp
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by tonyp »

J_Busworth wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:43 pm The Element is being driven by two driver trainers for a week or so to put it through its paces, in the same way the Yutong was tested last year with the same drivers.
If they've had previous experience, they're in their element then. :wink:
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Ray
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by Ray »

652w & 691w were previously allocated to Region 8, these school route were reallocated to Region 7.
Thanks Stu. Bit bizarre to see M buses running special all the way back from Warringah Mall, but I suppose they wanted to apply a consistent principle that the route is allocated by reference to the school's location and Lane Cove = 7.

All the other changes you mentioned sound intuitive.
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tonyp
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by tonyp »

Jurassic_Joke wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:48 am
The Yutong is much quieter which I appreciate, and also has front seats - the Gemilang omits these. In fact the Yutong has more seats as it is - 40 seats vs Gemilangs 36.
Incidentally, the Custom Element has 43 seats and the BCI 45, so the Australian designs are better on this. The Chinese buses have very large rear cabinets that basically cost a row of seats.

Edit: Just searching further afield for comparison, I note that the single, Australian-designed, Bustech prototype in Adelaide has 41 seats. The Volgren BYD D9RA prototype in Melbourne has 39 seats, but that's boosted by the typical Melbourne single-leaf centre door, so if the door was double leaf, the figure would be more like 37. Incidentally, the Yutong demonstrators also have a single leaf centre door, so with a double leaf, the seating capacity would be no more than 38. It's a symptom of the compromises you get with Chinese design - they're not the best.

Of course, the Australians have their slip-ups too. The Element is clearly the best design overall. The BCI could be good but it's compromised by the high floor at the rear. The Bustech is fully low floor but the window-line is so high that seated passengers can't see out, a bit of a Bustech hallmark. Volgren is normally a clever designer but clearly they've been constrained here by the (Chinese) part-high floor chassis they've been given. It will be interesting to see what they accomplish in WA on a Volvo low floor electric chassis.
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by stupid_girl »

Since when was 339 diverted to Circular Quay? It is shown as such in TripView and in the route map.
https://transportnsw.info/documents/tim ... 210129.pdf
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swtt
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Re: STA Observations 2021

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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by J_Busworth »

stupid_girl wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:25 pm Since when was 339 diverted to Circular Quay? It is shown as such in TripView and in the route map.
https://transportnsw.info/documents/tim ... 210129.pdf
It has been moved to Circular Quay since 14 February 2021
https://transportnswblog.com
RIP STA L113s 28/01/93 - 12/01/22
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swtt
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by swtt »

Hmm. Looks like the route description wasn't altered as part of those changes 😂
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by moa999 »

Some pretty poor roadwork on the relatively new stops westbound on Eddy Ave.

Potholes like a goat track on Sunday, with bitumen and rocks kicked up onto the 'platform'
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boronia
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by boronia »

J_Busworth wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:03 pm
stupid_girl wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:25 pm Since when was 339 diverted to Circular Quay? It is shown as such in TripView and in the route map.
https://transportnsw.info/documents/tim ... 210129.pdf
It has been moved to Circular Quay since 14 February 2021
The map shows the CQ terminus in Philip St, before Bridge St?

The timetable still says it starts from Pitt St.
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