STA Observations 2021-2022

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tonyp
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by tonyp »

From my usual Sydney observation point overlooking Woolloomooloo, I see this massive stream of buses using the ED southbound in the morning peak. I assume these are buses returning from the city empty and buses from Chatswood to Bondi junction? Are there any UNSW services among these?
tonyp
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by tonyp »

I've always felt that the Australian preference for "green wave" traffic light management is very unfavorable to public transport. One of the factors that keeps buses and trams moving along in Eurooe is the short, frequent cycles. At Clara and Arthur Sts in Randwick (400 etc buses) there is a huge clusterf... for the buses because Belmore Rd gets the green wave and High St favors the trams, so there's often a huge knot of traffic between the two with often two or three buses stuck in it, while Belmore and High are so empty you can fire a cannon down them. Traffic light management in Australia is generally terrible, unless you're in your own car and driving along main roads. Nobody has ever challenged this. (Over to you lunchbox!)
stajourneyman
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by stajourneyman »

There doesn't seem to be any real bus priority at traffic light intersections around the Sydney metro area.

Sure, there are B lights here and there, and yes, they do allow the buses to sometimes proceed before general traffic.

However, the buses are made to wait for their particular turn in any cycle of lights.

As far as buses receiving immediate priority at these intersections, it just doesn't exist in Sydney.

Quite often, you will even see buses move over into the general traffic lanes in order to get through the intersection quicker.
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boronia
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by boronia »

tonyp wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:18 am From my usual Sydney observation point overlooking Woolloomooloo, I see this massive stream of buses using the ED southbound in the morning peak. I assume these are buses returning from the city empty and buses from Chatswood to Bondi junction? Are there any UNSW services among these?
AFIK there are no UNSW bus services any more, and previous iterations would not have used the ED.
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by Merc1107 »

That brings an interesting question to light, isn't part of a bus headway management system meant to manage traffic light priority? And where there are no traffic lights to manipulate, how is the system maintaining a consistent headway?
tonyp
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by tonyp »

The situation at Arthur and Clara Sts is that the lights at either end need to release traffic more frequently. If this happened the buses wouldn’t have problem. There’s no space for bus lanes and thery’re not necessary anyway. It’s just the light cycles that are the problem. If they had short cycles, nobody would have a problem, not even the trams. The traffic light engineers can’t seem to conceive of any other way to do it.
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boronia
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by boronia »

The main problem with light cycles appears to be the pedestrian lights. These seem to be becoming longer phases because of complaints from elderly people that they "don't have time to cross the road" within the current traffic allowances. So traffic is held up for, quite often non-existent, pedestrians who dawdle across.

Traffic wanting to turn across a crossing also gets delayed by pedestrians who see the flashing red light as an invitation to make a run for from some distance back. When I was driving in the CBD it was not uncommon for only one vehicle to make a turn in each cycle.
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by In Transit »

tonyp wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:18 am From my usual Sydney observation point overlooking Woolloomooloo, I see this massive stream of buses using the ED southbound in the morning peak. I assume these are buses returning from the city empty and buses from Chatswood to Bondi junction? Are there any UNSW services among these?
All of these buses would be out of service, returning from peak services to the City - either heading to their depot or to form another inbound peak service.
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by tonyp »

boronia wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:03 pm The main problem with light cycles appears to be the pedestrian lights. These seem to be becoming longer phases because of complaints from elderly people that they "don't have time to cross the road" within the current traffic allowances. So traffic is held up for, quite often non-existent, pedestrians who dawdle across.

Traffic wanting to turn across a crossing also gets delayed by pedestrians who see the flashing red light as an invitation to make a run for from some distance back. When I was driving in the CBD it was not uncommon for only one vehicle to make a turn in each cycle.
While this may be part of the issue, it goes beyond that to movement of any vehicle or person through the lights. After the initial vehicles have been released at the change of lights, they just stay on green long after any traffic has gone through. We must all be familiar with staring at an empty intersection while the lights stay red into seeming infinity. Perth is even worse than Sydney if that's possible. It's an Australian thing, maybe derived from USA(?). In tens of thousands of kms of driving in Europe over the years I have no recollection of such an issue. The cycles roll around quite quickly. I'm sure it would help keeping bus schedules if buses were fitted with transponders to "unlock the gates" in situations like the Randwick one.
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by Linto63 »

boronia wrote: The main problem with light cycles appears to be the pedestrian lights. These seem to be becoming longer phases because of complaints from elderly people that they "don't have time to cross the road" within the current traffic allowances.
Whereas previously the red arrow for cars would only remain lit while the green man was shown, it now remains on until the red man has finished flashing which sometimes means only a few seconds for cars to get through. Plus pedestrian lights in the cbd are still set to operate at every phase as a Covid initiative to avoid the need to press buttons.
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by pgt »

boronia wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:18 am
tonyp wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:18 am From my usual Sydney observation point overlooking Woolloomooloo, I see this massive stream of buses using the ED southbound in the morning peak. I assume these are buses returning from the city empty and buses from Chatswood to Bondi junction? Are there any UNSW services among these?
AFIK there are no UNSW bus services any more, and previous iterations would not have used the ED.
Also to add, there are no Chatswood to Bondi Junction services any more.
Closest that the ED would even see to a service like that would be the 200 that uses the Cahill Expressway then Macquarie St - but that was truncated to a Gore Hill - Bondi Junction service in the mid January 2021 changes.
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by boronia »

Linto63 wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:01 pm Plus pedestrian lights in the cbd are still set to operate at every phase as a Covid initiative to avoid the need to press buttons.
Moat of the lights in the CBD have been "automatic", at least during business hours, in the CBD for years.
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Ray
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by Ray »

I saw a route 751W from Willoughby to Balmoral Beach today. Wondering if this route has always existed....or was it brought in after complaints about the 257 being discontinued?

Other W series routes operating in Region 8:

688W Riverview to Taronga Zoo
691W Riverview to Warringah Mall
674w Manly to Glenean Senior (AM only)

Plus there are two other PM services from Killarney Heights High running into the Willoughby area.

All of these are unusual because they involve Region 7 buses running into Region 8.
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by pgt »

I have seen some of the school bus routes from region 7 going along Military Road - particularly the ones that go to Riverview of a morning.
(Besides that period when the 430 was operated by Transit Systems to Taronga Zoo, it was/is an unusual sight to see a gas bus on Military Road, which is what sometimes operates these school services).

Not sure how they determine which region operates the bus, though at a guess probably relates to where the school in question is.
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

Jurassic_Joke wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:02 pm The restriction that i don’t get personally is one year later the continued insistence of blocking off the front seats on the buses to passengers, even with almost 50 days of no new cases, mandatory masks, full-cover Perspex screens for drivers and the continued rise of patronage on public transport. I’m guessing maybe it’ll be when vaccine rollout is done?
The blocked off front seats has nothing to do with Transport For NSW or the government as operators where blocking them off before the PM announced the 6 week nationwide stage 3 COVID lockdown witch means that the restricted access to the front seat was a protection method created by the transport unions that won't change until the unions say that it's safe for operators can give passengers to the front seat of buses
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Fleet Lists
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by Fleet Lists »

What is your source for that information?
Living in the Shire.
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by J_Busworth »

All the Citaros at Waverley have now been either Withdrawn (1154, 1160, 1355) or transferred to Port Botany (the other regos at W).

This means as of today, Waverley is a gas free depot
Last edited by J_Busworth on Thu Mar 11, 2021 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

Fleet Lists wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:59 pm What is your source for that information?
According to this observation posted in the COVID 19 thread on March 18th last year Interline was starting to block the access of front seats back then witch was 2 months before the government introduced the green social distancing sit here stickers
viewtopic.php?p=1060334#p1060334
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by Cazza »

The government introducing the green stickers and the PM introducing the lockdown were at different times... Australia went into lockdown mid March, the stickers were being rolled out early to mid May.

And you’ll find if the blocking off of the front seats started on the 18th of March (or a few days before), it was less than a week before the nation wide lockdown.

Finally, it’s which, not witch.

Anything else you would like us to fact check?
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by Fleet Lists »

Campbelltown busboy wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:43 pm
Fleet Lists wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:59 pm What is your source for that information?
According to this observation posted in the COVID 19 thread on March 18th last year Interline was starting to block the access of front seats back then witch was 2 months before the government introduced the green social distancing sit here stickers
viewtopic.php?p=1060334#p1060334
That does not mean that Transport for NSW did not bring in some regulations at a later date - you should not jump to conclusions.
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stajourneyman
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by stajourneyman »

According to the fleetlists, it seems that all gas buses have now departed from Waverly making it an all diesel depot for the first time in over 20 years.

The drivers should have a party ! ... not to celebrate the 20 years ... rather to celebrate the END of 20 years..😂😂
Last edited by stajourneyman on Fri Mar 12, 2021 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Stu
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by Stu »

Ray wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:05 pm I saw a route 751W from Willoughby to Balmoral Beach today. Wondering if this route has always existed....or was it brought in after complaints about the 257 being discontinued?

Other W series routes operating in Region 8:

688W Riverview to Taronga Zoo
691W Riverview to Warringah Mall
674w Manly to Glenean Senior (AM only)

Plus there are two other PM services from Killarney Heights High running into the Willoughby area.

All of these are unusual because they involve Region 7 buses running into Region 8.
The school routes 674w, 688w & 751w have been around for many years (service existed pre renumbering in 2016) and has always been a part of Region 7.

There were some minor timetable changes for school services in Region 7 on 24/02/2020, there was also an operational change that involved Region 7 school routes 652w & 691w were previously allocated to Region 8, these school route were reallocated to Region 7.
This was the first step towards separating the regions in order to franchise the STA regions at different times in the future.

Other school routes that were changed from 24/02/2020 - the total number of trips per route were adjusted as well as departure times and day of the week that trips operate.
653w (AM) Lane Cove Shops to North Sydney Boys High School.
656w (PM) North Sydney Boys High School to St. Leonards Station.
677w (PM) Epping Boys High School to Epping Interchange.
694w (AM) Lane Cove Shops to Lane Cove Public School.
778w (PM) North Sydney Oval to Lane Cove West.

Other examples. Region 6 & Region 7 school route numbers, suffix and operating across into/out of respective regions.
561w Holy Cross College Ryde to Five Dock. Operated by STA R7.
564s Newington College to Ryde. Operated by STA R7.
565w Hunters Hill High to Balmain. Operated by Transit Systems R6.
566w Hunters Hill High to Five Dock. Operated by Transit Systems R6.
598s (AM) Earlwood to Hunters Hill High. Operated by Transit Systems R6. Formerly 568w in Term 1 2016, renumbered to 598s Term 2 2016 due to the number being duplicated with the service from North Sydney Demonstration School to Wollstonecraft (STA R7).
581w Concord to Marist Sisters Woolwich. Operated by Transit Systems R6.
590w (AM) Glebe to Cross College Ryde. Operated by Transit Systems R6.
595w Concord to Holy Cross College Ryde. Operated by STA R7.
596w Cross College Ryde to Five Dock. Operated by STA R7.
597w Cross College Ryde to Five Dock. Operated by STA R7.
613w (PM) Cross College Ryde to Glebe. Operated by STA R7.
786w Abbotsford to Riverside Girls High. Operated by STA R7.

706w - Drummoyne Public to Chiswick. Operated by Transit Systems R6.
707w - Drummoyne Public to Five Dock. Operated by Transit Systems R6.
* This 706w & 707w are anomalies regarding the suffix as both routes operate within R6 although have a 'w' suffix. Both routes have never been scheduled to operate out of Region 7 (Ryde Depot) since the services were renumbered on January 2016, both routes have always operated out of Region 6 Leichhardt Depot. Prior to the January 2016 school route renumbering, route 706w was 691c (like former route 491 extended trips from the 1990's) and 706w was and 692m. Both 691c and 692m operated out of Region 6 Leichhardt Depot.
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by Jurassic_Joke »

Campbelltown busboy wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:46 pm
Jurassic_Joke wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:02 pm The restriction that i don’t get personally is one year later the continued insistence of blocking off the front seats on the buses to passengers, even with almost 50 days of no new cases, mandatory masks, full-cover Perspex screens for drivers and the continued rise of patronage on public transport. I’m guessing maybe it’ll be when vaccine rollout is done?
The blocked off front seats has nothing to do with Transport For NSW or the government as operators where blocking them off before the PM announced the 6 week nationwide stage 3 COVID lockdown witch means that the restricted access to the front seat was a protection method created by the transport unions that won't change until the unions say that it's safe for operators can give passengers to the front seat of buses
I would certainly question if its still there when the time comes when everyone, particularly transport staff, have been vaccinated. More to the point, i think it looks bad when there are people standing huddled in the roped off seats area at the front anyway when it gets busy, so on those instances - the measure is all but pointless then and this is another oversight I’m seeing in the trams too which likewise are also getting busier and busier. I mean - we’re doing well. Nearly 2 months now without a new case, of course more and more people are coming out into the community again and using public transport.

Interesting to note however is, I’ve recently been to Melbourne, i can definitely testify that on Yarra Trams, unlike ours, the front row of seats are unrestricted again, however some of them had a “please dont sit here” sticker, cant tell if its meant to be there or if forgotten from the past as it wasn’t all trams - however, because none of the trams actually had any tape restricting the seats themselves, people sat there anyway with no question. I presume, but havent confirmed, you can sit there, and the front doors of course are in use again too. However, the same doesn’t go for the buses there, front seats remain closed off with tape, although it appears front door boarding has resumed.
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

Jurassic_Joke wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:39 am I would certainly question if its still there when the time comes when everyone, particularly transport staff, have been vaccinated. More to the point, i think it looks bad when there are people standing huddled in the roped off seats area at the front anyway when it gets busy, so on those instances - the measure is all but pointless then and this is another oversight I’m seeing in the trams too which likewise are also getting busier and busier. I mean - we’re doing well. Nearly 2 months now without a new case, of course more and more people are coming out into the community again and using public transport.
The strange thing was everything was fine until the WHO declared COVID as a global pandemic the blocking off of front seats on buses was first observed on March 18th 2020 witch was after the WHO's pandemic declaration announcement that was made around March 12th 2020
tonyp
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by tonyp »

The situation was ludicrous, with front seats taped off yet people allowed to board past the driver. Sort of pointless really.
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