Ferry Observations for 2021

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
User avatar
boronia
Posts: 21567
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:18 am
Favourite Vehicle: Ahrens Fox; GMC PD4107
Location: Sydney NSW

Re: Ferry Observations for 2021

Post by boronia »

It is not even a technical issue because the ferries were designed to be "dual purpose" and used on other routes with the top deck open.
Preserving fire service history
@ The Museum of Fire.
User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
Posts: 23803
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:49 pm
Location: The Shire

Re: Ferry Observations for 2021

Post by Fleet Lists »

I thought the height problem was with the new River class ferries and not the Emerald Mark II's
Living in the Shire.
Linto63
Posts: 2809
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:44 pm

Re: Ferry Observations for 2021

Post by Linto63 »

IIRC, it is to do with the the Carlingford railway line bridge and/or power lines at Camelia. When hired in Captain Cook vessels operate the F3 service, the upper deck has to be vacated between Rydalmere and Parramatta. So it's not a new problem.
moa999
Posts: 2923
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:12 pm

Re: Ferry Observations for 2021

Post by moa999 »

Exactly Captain Cook has been doing it for years.

And by that point on the river there are usually so few pax that moving them downstairs won't be an issue.

From one of the photos I saw the upper deck capacity didn't look that big anyway.

Just more Union complaints.
Just like the world was going to end when they tendered out the ferry operations.
User avatar
boronia
Posts: 21567
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:18 am
Favourite Vehicle: Ahrens Fox; GMC PD4107
Location: Sydney NSW

Re: Ferry Observations for 2021

Post by boronia »

Fleet Lists wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:38 pm I thought the height problem was with the new River class ferries and not the Emerald Mark II's
That's right.
Preserving fire service history
@ The Museum of Fire.
User avatar
boronia
Posts: 21567
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:18 am
Favourite Vehicle: Ahrens Fox; GMC PD4107
Location: Sydney NSW

Re: Ferry Observations for 2021

Post by boronia »

I think the upper deck capacity is only 10, a couple of park benches back to back.

But the "doom and gloom merchants" are predicting the crews might forget to clear the deck in time.
Preserving fire service history
@ The Museum of Fire.
User avatar
boronia
Posts: 21567
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:18 am
Favourite Vehicle: Ahrens Fox; GMC PD4107
Location: Sydney NSW

Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by boronia »

My understanding is that the current MFF licence is due to expire around June/July, and NRMA is not taking up the opportunity to renew/reapply. Hence the need to acquire the Emeralds in a hurry, which will effectively replace the MFFs by offering the same service at standard prices. TfNSW seems to think there is not the patronage to warrant both services, so they can save money by getting rid of the Freshies.

Having a digital Opal and digital bank card on the same phone might cause confusion for some people?
Preserving fire service history
@ The Museum of Fire.
User avatar
jpp42
Posts: 1377
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:27 pm

Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by jpp42 »

MyFastFerry has quite a large fleet - seems it's a duplication of capital for those ferries to be replaced, even if the operator does change. Wouldn't NRMA look to lease them to a new operator?
User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
Posts: 23803
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:49 pm
Location: The Shire

Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Fleet Lists »

You would think that three new Emeralds would not be enough to replace both the Freshwaters and the Manly Fast Ferry fleet on the Manly run.
Living in the Shire.
User avatar
boronia
Posts: 21567
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:18 am
Favourite Vehicle: Ahrens Fox; GMC PD4107
Location: Sydney NSW

Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by boronia »

jpp42 wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:56 pm MyFastFerry has quite a large fleet - seems it's a duplication of capital for those ferries to be replaced, even if the operator does change. Wouldn't NRMA look to lease them to a new operator?
I have seen mention that Transdev will be buying the operation, or at least some of the ferries. The MFF is just part of a harbour cruise, whale watching and charter business, with boats interworked. NRMA would nave taken a huge hit over the past 12 months.
Preserving fire service history
@ The Museum of Fire.
User avatar
jpp42
Posts: 1377
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:27 pm

Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by jpp42 »

boronia wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:03 pm I have seen mention that Transdev will be buying the operation, or at least some of the ferries. The MFF is just part of a harbour cruise, whale watching and charter business, with boats interworked. NRMA would nave taken a huge hit over the past 12 months.
Yes, all credit to the original owners, Bass and Flinders Cruises, who started the operation after the Jetcats were scrapped, and built up the local loyal passenger base from scratch, weathered competition from the government-approved Sydney Fast Ferries and ultimately drove them out of business, and then in 2017, sold out at what seems to be the right time.
User avatar
Transport Buff
Posts: 160
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:46 pm
Favourite Vehicle: R9 Volvo Volgren artic
Location: Eastern Suburbs, Sydney, NSW
Contact:

Re: Ferry Observations for 2021

Post by Transport Buff »

Interesting article from Sydney Morning Herald:
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/cor ... 57fll.html

May be of interest to fellow readers and viewers.

Cheers,
Transport Buff
Love Volvo B12BLEA, Mercedes O405NH, Scania K310UB, Custom Denning Element
Excited for:
-Sydney Metro C&SW, West, WSydAirport
-NIF
-PLR
-WestConnex
YouTube: www.youtube.com/@TransportBuff
User avatar
boronia
Posts: 21567
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:18 am
Favourite Vehicle: Ahrens Fox; GMC PD4107
Location: Sydney NSW

Re: Ferry Observations for 2021

Post by boronia »

The article refers to them as "new fleet of ferries" which has got the "Save the Manly Ferries" fanatics into a tizz, because they didn't bother to read the rest of the story to find out they are actually the older Emeralds and are 4-5 years old.
Preserving fire service history
@ The Museum of Fire.
mandonov
Posts: 1712
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:34 pm

Re: Ferry Observations for 2021

Post by mandonov »

Well that sort of puts a damper on the “locally-built = quality” argument doesn’t it? What will the headlines be if the Emerald Series 2 don’t rust in 5 years but the Series 1 are stuck looking shoddy?

Not the we shouldn’t be building locally, but it’s still silly to see it used to win political points in a pointless argument when new equipment arrives from overseas with defects. Now that local stock can be defective too should we just imagine a boat in our heads and ride that? No, we fix the problems and move on, local or foreign built.
User avatar
boronia
Posts: 21567
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:18 am
Favourite Vehicle: Ahrens Fox; GMC PD4107
Location: Sydney NSW

Re: Ferry Observations for 2021

Post by boronia »

Not to forget that the Emerald Mk 1 also had significant steering problems when acquired.
Preserving fire service history
@ The Museum of Fire.
User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
Posts: 23803
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:49 pm
Location: The Shire

Re: Ferry Observations for 2021

Post by Fleet Lists »

New life in the sun for a lady of the harbour
Lady Northcott
https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/news-a ... of-harbour
Living in the Shire.
Linto63
Posts: 2809
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:44 pm

Re: Ferry Observations for 2021

Post by Linto63 »

"will continue to grace Sydney Harbour in the years to come." Hmm. has actually been laid up in Newcastle for the past year.

Two Newcastle-built retired Sydney ferries on the market
tonyp
Posts: 12348
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 am

Re: Ferry Observations for 2021

Post by tonyp »

Freshwater is back in service. The refit cost about $7 million according to media. I under-guessed. I think the first six Emeralds a few years back cost $52 million, so for the cost of this occasional-use backup ferry they could have almost paid for an additional Emerald to provide an even better service to Manly, likely obviating the need for a big ferry backup. I've seen the details of the work on Freshwater. Absolutely eye-watering. Nobody else would throw that much money at a 40 year-old boat.
User avatar
boronia
Posts: 21567
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:18 am
Favourite Vehicle: Ahrens Fox; GMC PD4107
Location: Sydney NSW

Re: Ferry Observations for 2021

Post by boronia »

The "Save the Manly Ferries" activists are claiming that their campaigns resulted in this work, but knowing the time frame for getting such work done, it might well have been planned long before the announcement to "retire" them?
Preserving fire service history
@ The Museum of Fire.
User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
Posts: 23803
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:49 pm
Location: The Shire

Re: Ferry Observations for 2021

Post by Fleet Lists »

It has just departed on the 4.15pm trip from Manly.
And I agree with Boronia.
Living in the Shire.
Linto63
Posts: 2809
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:44 pm

Re: Ferry Observations for 2021

Post by Linto63 »

The plan to replace the Freshwater class came to light when Transdev was awarded a contract renewal in February 2019, so not a recent decision. Not sure of what the planned timeframe for delivery of the new vessels was, but had there been s short term need to overhaul one until the new fleet was ready, a patch and repair job would have been performed, rather than a major overhaul which included a rewire.

Appears it will be around for some years to come, much to the displeasure of the naysayers predicting it would be gone within a year or so. :D
User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
Posts: 23803
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:49 pm
Location: The Shire

Re: Ferry Observations for 2021

Post by Fleet Lists »

https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/news-a ... ater-ferry
$7 million fresh new look for Freshwater ferry
Published24 May 2021

The MV Freshwater has returned to customer service after a major $7 million makeover to improve customer comfort and accessibility.

Minister for Transport and Roads Andrew Constance said the significant overhaul was required to ensure the iconic 40-year-old vessel can continue to serve customers on the F1 Circular Quay – Manly route for the years to come.

“In addition to the required essential maintenance, this makeover was all about giving this majestic vessel, the oldest in the Freshwater fleet, a new lease of life. It will also bring it closer into line with some of our more modern vessels by offering improved levels of comfort and accessibility for customers,” Mr Constance said.

The makeover includes brand new flooring, lighting, painting, CCTV, PA systems and improved accessibility for people with disabilities, limited mobility and parents with prams.

Regular maintenance activities were also carried out including taking the 1100 tonne vessel out of the water for thorough inspections as well as critical work to maintain the hull, rudder and propellers.

The work began in late February and has taken more than 100 days to complete, with more than 100 staff and contractors involved across a variety of maritime engineering and trade roles including boilermakers, shipwrights, painters, plumbers and electricians.

Member for Manly James Griffin said his local community admires the Freshwater and they will be pleased to see her carrying customers again.

“As a community, we’ve fought hard to show this Government that the Freshwater is an important part of our lives so it’s great to see this work is now complete, and she can resume her rightful place back out on the water where she belongs,” Mr Griffin said.

Throughout the project, the equivalent of around 3,500 days of work was delivered. The MV Freshwater was the first of four Freshwater vessels to enter passenger service in 1982.



Key facts

The makeover included:

More than 4,000 litres of paint was used to protect the steel work
Over 7kms of new cabling was connected – roughly the same distance the Freshwater travels when carries passengers between Circular Quay and Manly
750 square metres of new flooring laid which is almost the same size of three tennis courts
650 square metres of new ceiling panels which is around the same size as one and a half basketball courts
While at the Garden Island, several 64-tonne cranes were used to move many of Freshwater’s heavier components around the drydock area. Amongst these items were her 2300kg rudders, 4000kg propellers and 1800kg anchor.
Almost 60 ceiling-mounted surveillance cameras have been installed, as part of a major passenger safety initiative
Freshwater’s Forward Rudder, which is similar weight to a medium sized truck at around 2300kgs, was one of the many heavy pieces included in the ‘below-waterline’ preservation work
The engine room is bigger than a basketball court.
The main engine is 32 times more powerful than an average car
Living in the Shire.
lunchbox
Posts: 1796
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:50 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Bicycle - no waiting - on time
Location: Sydney

Re: Ferry Observations for 2021

Post by lunchbox »

Next - South Steyne..................
mandonov
Posts: 1712
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:34 pm

Re: Ferry Observations for 2021

Post by mandonov »

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/che ... 57vf2.html

Sydney’s problem-plagued River Class ferries will be more than a year late after even more issues were discovered with the overseas-built vessels.

Sydney Ferries operator Transdev on Wednesday said the 10 vessels, which were originally due to enter service in mid-2020, will need to undergo more work before they are ready to be rolled out later this year.

The work relates to the angle of the glass in the wheelhouse of the ferries, with ongoing reflection issues forcing the manufacturer to make further structural changes over the coming months.

It has already been revealed that the ferries cannot pass under two bridges on the Parramatta River if passengers are on top, have experienced stalling issues under emergency conditions and were also found to contain asbestos, which has since been removed.

The NSW government in March said the vessels would be rolled into service in “coming months” after the Herald revealed problems with their engine and gearbox.

But Transdev on Wednesday said those delivery time frames would be pushed back again to reduce the reflections caused by city lights during nighttime operations.

The spokesman said Transdev was assessing the problem to identify potential solutions, which would then need to be tested, with no clear timeframe as to when they will be delivered for service.
moa999
Posts: 2923
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:12 pm

Re: Ferry Observations for 2021

Post by moa999 »

Wonder if it was manufacturer error, or design error.

I'd thought these vessels were very similar to the ones that Captain Cook already operate.
Post Reply

Return to “Discussion - Sydney / NSW”