Jan 2021 bus changes - STA region 7

[Qantas94Heavy]

More STA bus changes have been announced, starting late Jan 2021.
This mostly involves region 7 services (except for a couple).

NEW ROUTES
Route 115 replaces route 343 between Chatswood and City.
Route 120 frequent route between Chatswood <-> QVB via Willoughby. Replaces 272/340.
Route 500X frequent route between West Ryde and City Hyde Park. Replaces M52/515/518/520/X15/X18.
Route 500N night service between Parramatta to City Hyde Park. Replaces 520.
Route 517 replaces route 507 between Macquarie University and Top Ryde.

CHANGED ROUTES
Route 200 truncated to Gore Hill.
Route 343 shortened to Kingsford <-> City. Chatswood services replaced by 115.
Route 501 extended to Parramatta.
Route 507 shortened to Meadowbank <-> City (off peak terminates at Gladesville). Macquarie Uni <-> Top Ryde services replaced by 517.
Route 513 shortened to Carlingford <-> West Ryde. Meadowbank Wharf will be served by route 518.
Route 515 shortened to Eastwood <-> Top Ryde.
Route 518 terminates at Meadowbank Wharf, no longer runs to city.
Route 525 truncated to Strathfield.

DISCONTINUED ROUTES
Route 272/340 replaced by route 120 (no replacement for Bondi services).
Route 520 replaced by 500N.
Route M52 replaced by 500X and 501.
Route X06 services will become all stops 506 runs.
Route X15 replaced by 500X and 515.
Route X18 replaced by 500X and 518.

[Linto63]

So it seems bit by bit all the cross-city services are being split, more for operational convenience than anything else with the 340 and 343 both to be curtailed and replaced by routes 115 and 120 north of the cbd.

[Cazza]

They've made a lot of the Ryde area routes very short and seemingly useless.

Route 515 will run for only just over 4kms... Doesn't really do much, is inefficient for operators and is a bit useless for the residents living along the route. Why not just extend the 458 from Ryde to Eastwood and that solves that. Or better still, extend it further north-west towards North Rocks or even Baulkham Hills so that area of the network finally gets some kind of frequent bus service complementing the 545 and 550 (by providing a suitableish northish-southish frequentish, connectorish route ).
You could possibly do more with the 513 in this area too, extending it from Carlingford towards Pennant Hills Station possibly. The 625 along Pennant Hills Rd really has so much potential, given a decent service frequency and operating hours.
Route 518 is a border-line length, but could possible extend from Meadowbank Wharf to West Ryde Interchange via Constitution Rd W and Adelaide St.

[Richard290]

Here are my critiques:
1. So with the rerouting of the 200 to Gore Hill (the current terminus of the 320) it seems that the routes will piggyback each other from the Harbour Bridge all the way up the Pacific Hwy to Gore Hill. Even though there is duplication between 200 and 320 between North Sydney and Gore Hill, the main difference is that 320 runs a daily, all stops service, while 200 runs a limited-stop peak-hour service. From what I can assume the change in terminus for route 200 is supposed to free up slots at Chatswood for extra 144 services?

Route 501
Parramatta to Central Pitt St (currently West Ryde to Central Pitt St) This route will change to operate to Parramatta (currently runs to West Ryde) and will replace route M52 services between Parramatta and West Ryde. Services will operate every 10 minutes or better during weekday peak hours, every 15 minutes during off peak times and Saturdays, and every 20 minutes on Sundays. Early morning and late-night services will operate at least every 30 minutes.

2. I don't think extending the 501 from terminating West Ryde to Parramatta would be beneficial for those living at the busier eastern portion of the route (e.g. Drummoyne, Rozelle, Pyrmont) when congestion on Victoria Road would undermine reliability and journey times, since the 501 is already an all-stops service. Extending this all-stops route west to Parramatta would exacerbate these issues even further, given the length of this new route. However I approve of the new 15 minute frequency on route 501, opposed to the existing 20 minute weekday frequency.

3.With the 500X terminating at West Ryde, the question is whether the 500X would use the current 501 route along Parkes Street, Marlow Ave bridge, etc.? and the new 501 uses the current routing of the M52 (Victoria Road, Bowden, Parkes Street eastbound; Devlin Street, Victoria Road westbound) to cross the Northern Line via Victoria Road at West Ryde? I also question whether the new 500X would use the West Ryde Interchange on West Parade to terminate, or use the Anzac Ave/Vic Road ramp/Ryedale Rd/Herbert St as a new loop terminus for the 500X?

4.The splitting of 507 into 507/517 is welcome, given that it is quite a convoluted route. With the truncation of 515, Eastwood loses its direct connection to Victoria Road east of Ryde, the same can be said for 518 between Top Ryde and Macquarie Uni, although 506 still runs between Macquarie Uni and The Domain via East Ryde & Drummoyne.

5.Also, what is with the newly allocated 1xx routes (100, 111, 114, 115, 120) encroaching on the North Shore's 2xx routes? Aren't 1xx routes are usually allocated for routes on the Northern Beaches?

[Fleet Lists]

I suspect that the 1xx routes will be region 8 routes for the purposes of the region tendering.

[kypros1992]

Missed opportunity to merge 515 and 521 to bring back some N&W similar routes

[swtt]

Missed opportunity to merge 515 and 521 to bring back some N&W similar routes

Yeah, I'm surprised not a bigger broom has been brought to this refresh to the network.

[Swift]

Will the 115 and 343 be M runs or will the 343 go to one of the south/east depots and 115 to another northern depot?
It sure was a novelty having a continuous run from Chatswood to Kingsford, two normally very separate areas.

[boeing]

343 from Kingsford to City would surely be R

[Fleet Lists]

So it seems bit by bit all the cross-city services are being split, more for operational convenience than anything else with the 340 and 343 both to be curtailed and replaced by routes 115 and 120 north of the cbd.

More for ease of splitting the regions with privatisation.

[swtt]

Wasn't the 343 glued with 273 (Chatswood - Wynyard via Crows Nest) back then for the lack of layover area in the CBD due to CSELR construction? With the construction now over, perhaps the 343 can go back to Gresham St.

[stajourneyman]

I reckon if I was in a position to sabotage the STA system, this is the path I’d take.

So now with region 7 they continue this stupid habit of insisting that people interchange on many routes.

I predict that in about 20 years time the NSW government if the day will come up with an amazing plan to link routes across the city, and have an extensive network of routes organised so that passengers can travel direct to their destinations ‘all in one trip’

What an absolute joke !!

[Linto63]

Will the 115 and 343 be M runs or will the 343 go to one of the south/east depots and 115 to another northern depot?

That can be taken as read, currently operated by both M and P.

More for ease of splitting the regions with privatisation.

Which was my point, we're going back to the old days where routes only operate to the cbd. We've already seen the M10, M50, 340, 343 400, 430 and 545 curtailed and you have to wonder how much longer the 320, 370, 389, 440 and 530 will last. You only have to stand on one of the inbound corridors of these routes and compare their loads with those of parallel services that terminate in the cbd to realise that they are quite popular. It is possible to have more than one operator on a route, some Smartbus routes are (or at least were) operated by multiple operators.

Wasn't the 343 glued with 273 (Chatswood - Wynyard via Crows Nest) back then for the lack of layover area in the CBD due to CSELR construction?

Yes

[rogf24]

I reckon if I was in a position to sabotage the STA system, this is the path I’d take.

So now with region 7 they continue this stupid habit of insisting that people interchange on many routes.

I predict that in about 20 years time the NSW government if the day will come up with an amazing plan to link routes across the city, and have an extensive network of routes organised so that passengers can travel direct to their destinations ‘all in one trip’

What an absolute joke !!

Interchanging will be here to stay. They're pretty much reforming the bus network along world's best practice, and that is to make it a transfer-based network with simplified routes. They didn't do it before since fares weren't integrated (could do with full integration but Opal is much better than before), but it is kinda integrated now so there's no reason to return unless the fares become a mess again.

[Cazza]

so that passengers can travel direct to their destinations ‘all in one trip’

That's what a car is for. Any good transport network needs connections. You physically cannot make a bus or train line from everyone's front door to their destination: that is what a car is.

However, these connections only work if the services are frequent and reliable. Look at London. It's common for commuters to have to make 2, 3 or even 4 seat journeys to reach their destination across only a few kms or the whole City. But why does it work so well? Because the services are frequent, and for the most part, very reliable.

Once you have routes running through the CBD trying to kill two or three birds with one stone, reliability gets completely thrown out the window and connections cannot be guaranteed. You then start having bus routes duplicating and competing with one another (exactly what the Mx0 metrobus network was- routes just slapped onto of already oversaturated corridors) and it just doesn't work.

For the record, I am all for cross town routes such as the 144, 550, 400 etc. Having frequent orbital networks is what works so well because cities are shifting their dynamic away from being CBD centric. Afterall, the 400 is Sydney's most patronised route (it was anyway, not sure if it still is).

But what I don't think should happen is cross CBD routes. It's unnecessary and unreliable. The rail, light rail and eventual metro should be acting as a CBD circular, moving people around from interchange point to interchange point (e.g. Wynyard to Central, Town Hall to Circular Quay) for commuters to continue their journey.

[hugh45]

I hope the Route 320 from Gore Hill to Mascot bus is not split in the future. I have travelled on this route from St Leonards to Waterloo and even outside peak hours the articulated buses on this route have close to full passenger seating. It would gain even extra support if extended on the north side to Lane Cove. Possibly the lack of a turn around there could be a reason this has not been considered.

[Linto63]

It would gain even extra support if extended on the north side to Lane Cove.

IIRC, that was the original plan but Lane Cove Council wouldn't move a pedestrian refuge hence it terminates in the middle of an industrial area.

[pgt]

I hope the Route 320 from Gore Hill to Mascot bus is not split in the future. I have travelled on this route from St Leonards to Waterloo and even outside peak hours the articulated buses on this route have close to full passenger seating. It would gain even extra support if extended on the north side to Lane Cove. Possibly the lack of a turn around there could be a reason this has not been considered.

Back when the "20" (pre M20 naming) was conceived, I seem to recall the council was against the route terminating at Lane Cove Shops because of a lack of terminating areas and places to turn around (seems the odd 261 and 265 service was enough for them).

I use the 320 every so often from Gore Hill and there is definitely a demand for it even in off peak (more so because they took every other service bar the off peak 252 out of the Sydney CBD, and the 320 is now the only one that serves Town Hall/QVB which the other services used to - those being the former guises of the 252, 254, 286 and 290).

The thing about changing bus to train (or ferry even!), which apparently was what they wanted passengers to do, was that it was somewhat slower to do that as opposed to staying on the bus (at St Leonards, and especially North Sydney)... changing from a train at North Sydney coming from the city, it's also more confusing if going to the 254 or 291 because the closest stop is not a stop that is part of "North Sydney Station" in any trip planner/app (yes I put in a suggestion, but fell on deaf ears).

[stajourneyman]

I think you'll find that load numbers will start to taper off over the next year or so.

I think they're kidding themselves if they think passengers are going to switch buses several times per overall trip and be happy about it.

Take for example, in the middle of winter, passengers shuffling off a nice warm bus onto an unprotected bus seat at an interchange point in the suburbs getting rained on and windblown.

Likewise, what about women being forced to change nonconnecting buses in the suburbs at night time.

Ditto for the elderly.

They are seriously kidding themselves!

If they want people to use buses, make it attractive for them, which is not achievable with this destructive nonsense.

[Cazza]

I think they're kidding themselves if they think passengers are going to switch buses several times per overall trip and be happy about it.

The quickest journey for me from my home in Ashgrove to my current work near Mater Hill (a journey of about 8km by car) involves 3 buses (sometimes 4 if I time the connections right). Because I can jump off one bus, and hop straight onto another within minutes makes it seamless and just so easy. You'll find that unless they are doing some ridiculous 30km long cross town journey, a typical cross town journey would involve 1, maybe 2 changes at most. That's nothing out of the ordinary for many people's commutes today.

Please see the link in my signature for how I would have a transfer based system set up. It's not perfect, but I am regularly updating it best fit travel patterns noted and ongoing bus service changes.
Let's have a few examples using the current network vs my network.
-Someones home in Curl Curl to their office in Ultimo. Currently, you'd get a 165X (assuming it's peak hour) to Wynyard, a train to Central then most likely walk. In a my system, you'd have to get the 122 to Manly Vale, change for B1 or any CBD-bound express service then transfer to a train like normal. Yes, there is an extra transfer there at Dee Why, but the resources saved by not having it as a peak hour express service allows it to run frequently all day. This is a benefit to the broader community, not just those peak hour commuters.
-A day at the beach at Bondi to their home in Haberfield. Currently, a 333 to Museum, then a 438X to Haberfield. On my system, the 333 would be retained but the M44 (current 438X) would likely be curtailed to Central. So you'd have to get the 333 to Bondi Junction, the train (or 315) to Central then the M44 from there. Depending on train connections at Bondi Junction, this would actually be a very competitive trip time wise (especially if Oxford St has traffic delays). And it's actually one that many people do today. Have you see the queues of people transferring onto the 333 at Bondi Junction? They don't operate these Bondi J to Bondi Beach short-running buses every 3 mins or better along the Bondi Rd corridor for nothing.
-One more which seems to be a point of contention- someone's home in Zetland to their work in St Leonards. Currently the 320 does the job all in one. But, in peak hour, it takes over 1 hour to travel just 12kms! An average speed of 12km/h? You have to be crazy to want to sit on a bus travelling that slow for so long. In my new network, catching the 373 to Central then the train to St Leonards would easily bring the trip to around 45 mins.

And to answer your question, yes, I (and I'm sure many other people) would much prefer a bus running every 30 mins and having to transfer onto another service than a bus every 60 mins and not having to change.

Take for example, in the middle of winter, passengers shuffling off a nice warm bus onto an unprotected bus seat at an interchange point in the suburbs getting rained on and windblown.

Have you experienced weather in London before? Or the coldness of a European winter? Or the fact that some days in Scandinavia have just a few hours of daylight? These are some of the highest places of PT uptake in the world with transfer based systems and they seem to be doing fine.
(Side note, I do understand that bus stop shelters are a luxury around Sydney and bus stops themselves are lacking in the sense that they seem like just a stop pole will do. At major interchange points like North Sydney or Railway Square, there does need to be a much bigger investment in weather protection).
My point is, if I could traverse around Zurich/Switzerland last Christmas (a foreign speaking country which was very cold), I think Sydneysiders will be able to cope.

Likewise, what about women being forced to change nonconnecting buses in the suburbs at night time.

Ditto for the elderly.

But that's where there is a misunderstanding, a proper PT should have major interchanges where connections are made, not some side street bus stop. And that's where funds saved from not running services from everywhere to anywhere for a small, concentrated part of the day can be used to run them at better frequencies for longer.

The elderly don't really travel outside of their suburb anyway. Taxis seem to be their go to method of travel as well.

If they want people to use buses, make it attractive for them, which is not achievable with this destructive nonsense.

So, is being able to provide more services, to more people, for longer hours of the day unattractive to you? Sounds like a dream to me.

[swtt]

Here's the other interesting comparison: Sydney's Bus Future has always earmarked the Parramatta - City via Victoria Road route as a future rapid route. I guess it's only being partially fulfilled here with the M52's successor curtailed to West Ryde.

Not to mention - if the 500X only ran at 10 min intervals off peak, this actually represents a cut in services along Victoria Road in the off peak. M52 + 515 + 518 alone, scores 8 trips per hour in the off peak. With the 507 heading into the city being a peak hour service, I'm hoping it's not a service cut being disguised as a "700 extra trips per week" mantra. (With M50 also now gone and replaced with 503 and no direct replacement into the city in the off peak, this could really be a very big service cut from Drummoyne to City...)

[rogf24]

Wouldn't the boosted 504 services fill that gap as well?

[rogf24]

My point is, if I could traverse around Zurich/Switzerland last Christmas (a foreign speaking country which was very cold), I think Sydneysiders will be able to cope.

Ditto for Toronto, a pioneer of the transfer based bus model. So much so Paul Mees wanted it for Melbourne. It's a successful model, despite cold winters.

[swtt]

Wouldn't the boosted 504 services fill that gap as well?

Was that boosted in the off peak?

Sent from my CPH2025 using Tapatalk

[hugh45]

Cazza What is the M44 you mentioned. I have travelled on the 320 from Waterloo to St Leonards a few times outside peak time and the journey is a little under 30 minutes. If i followed your example I could catch the 301 or 302 to Redfern Station then a train to St Leonards. I do not think I would save time by your example except if travelling in peak hours.