December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

[Stu]

Looks like all of the changes to buses starting tomorrow will also be carrying fresh air given the current situation.

I wondered why BN1 wasn't named NB1. Northern Beaches 1 sounds quite nice

Sent from my CPH2025 using Tapatalk

NimB1.

[Stu]

The current new timetables for the Northern Beaches area are the school holiday version, it will be interesting to see the school term versions as there were many routes that had diversions and extensions to and from primary schools and secondary schools/colleges particularly in the Balgowlah and Manly areas.

The 191 & 192 also have a number of school day variations to certain AM & PM services. The 191 timetable has a note that explains which services operate direct via Plateau Rd, the original release did not.

I would guess that there may be changes to the school route services, there could be some services rerouted or only some minor timing changes.

Timetables for the new Northern Beaches services and school routes for school term 1 2021 should be available in mid January 2021.

[Fleet Lists]

Also still contains old school term timetables for Uni routes 891, 893 and 898 as well as 610E which has also been reported as ceasing at the end of last school term.

[Fleet Lists]

Transport for NSW are checking why this is so. Hopefully it will be fixed shortly.

[Qantas94Heavy]

Something that has crept in ("minor timetable change") is that route 263 now runs fully to Crows Nest (every 60 minutes) on Sundays/public holidays. Previously Sunday service only operated to Amherst St (Cammeray) with an unusual 70 minute frequency.

[Fleet Lists]

Transport for NSW are checking why this is so. Hopefully it will be fixed shortly.

891, 893, 898 and 610E now all gone

[Xplorer]

Something that has crept in ("minor timetable change") is that route 263 now runs fully to Crows Nest (every 60 minutes) on Sundays/public holidays. Previously Sunday service only operated to Amherst St (Cammeray) with an unusual 70 minute frequency.

this was advertised before the change, but there's one or two Cammeray shortworkings left

[boronia]

Previously Sunday service only operated to Amherst St (Cammeray) with an unusual 70 minute frequency.

Probably to allow the service to operate with just one bus. Patronage did not warrant a more frequent service?

[Ray]

201 and 263 should be running to Wynyard, to match all other Region 8 routes.

[stupid_girl]

201 and 263 should be running to Wynyard, to match all other Region 8 routes.

It may be more cost effective to establish a frequent bus route between Gore Hill and city, then cut back local bus routes like 115,202,207,208,252,261,263 to North Sydney.

[Ray]

Perhaps after the new Metro opens? Certainly makes sense.

[stajourneyman]

So what’s happened at N since the changes.

Surely there must have been a fair outflow of buses from there given the influx of bendies.

To date, only two Volvo B12s seem to have gone ... one to W and the other to F.

[Jurassic_Joke]

I just want to talk about how good is that new 160x route (Chatswood - Dee Why express) that they introduced with these changes. That one is a big winner in my opinion and would definitely recommend to any locals in the areas who need to get to or from the Northern Beaches / Chatswood.

32 minutes from Chatswood to Dee Why. It runs all day, at a very high frequency (every 10 mins on Sunday during the daytime eg, same for weekdays). Just 7 stops on the entire route between Chatswood and Dee Why - see this is my idea of a real limited stops/express route, where the entire thing is actually limited stops, and not just a small portion, which is basically the bulk of other X/L-bus routes.

Lets see, before this bus, to get to the Northern Beaches from Chatswood, it would either be the now-defunct 136 (too slow, too many stops, route was just too long) or 280 (too slow, zig-zag route, doesn't run all day).

I'd like to see more 160x style routes be introduced, definitely a fan

[Swift]

This should have been available 20 years ago at least but you know the pattern, it's always been this way there will be no trying another way lest we displease some two bit group living in the 50s who don't want anything to improve.
No we must adhere to a system devised by people lying in graves!
While I despair at how Sydney's landscape is getting blighted by apartment towers, mainly catering to foreigners, this is at least one example of a positive change. It would be horrible too have all the grotesque changes we're seeing, while steadfastly clinging to inefficient ways in other areas.

[Stu]

The PDF timetables for Region 8 school term 1 are yet to be uploaded. The route 191 has numerous school day services diversions & extensions and these are displayed on the interactive map from January 24.

There were school day diversions & extensions involving schools on former routes 132, 136 & 143, these school day trips have been absorbed by new routes 162 & 166 and current 144.

[pgt]

After 200 gets truncated to Campbell St, there won't be any more services that will turn into Brown Street (officially).

I think the key word here was "officially", since the 144 bus around 2pm I was on today going to Chatswood still turned onto Brown Street, and while I didn't pay attention to the sign at that intersection (previously it said "no right turn - buses excepted"), if that is still the case, I'd imagine then barring traffic most drivers might still have it ingrained into them to turn right on Brown Street, even though it makes the final right turn onto Railway Street harder sometimes.

[DABOIKOOLKID]

In the subject of new school diversions/replacements, this is what I have managed to find: The 689n & 703n seem to have been replaced by two 199s which terminate at Freshwater Campus; 1 that starts at Narrabeen which I assume replaces the 689n, which started at Mona Vale and another which starts at Avalon, where the 703n started. The 623n seems to have been replaced by a 199, which starts at Avalon and terminates at Mackellar Girls Campus. There is a 178 & 179 in the morning that terminate at St Luke's Grammar (not sure which school service(s) these are replacing). There is an afternoon 167 which starts at St Augustine's (not sure which school service this is replacing). There is also a morning 166 which starts at Dee Why that diverts via Freshwater Campus towards Manly. The 690n which previously only ran to Cromer Campus now has a new "route name" which suggests it will run to Collaroy Plateau PS, however, the route hasn't been edited (yet). The 750n also has had an edited "route name" which suggest it will run to Narraweena, instead of the current North Curl Curl, however, the route hasn't been edited (yet). The 694n & the afternoon 689n seem to be cancelled without replacement; I believe the 694n had extremely low patronage anyway but the 689n seemed to have enough patronage for 2 services.

[Stu]

After 200 gets truncated to Campbell St, there won't be any more services that will turn into Brown Street (officially).

I think the key word here was "officially", since the 144 bus around 2pm I was on today going to Chatswood still turned onto Brown Street, and while I didn't pay attention to the sign at that intersection (previously it said "no right turn - buses excepted"), if that is still the case, I'd imagine then barring traffic most drivers might still have it ingrained into them to turn right on Brown Street, even though it makes the final right turn onto Railway Street harder sometimes.

The once daily route 536 afternoon service extension from Riverside Girls High to Chatswood turns right from Pacific Hey into Brown St.

[Jurassic_Joke]

Wow, these Northern Beaches bus changes have really culled the use of bendy buses in this region, for what was once bendy bus heartland. Unless that was the purpose of these changes.

On a weekday during the peak hour, there’s now only a very small handful to be seen on a few X routes, and on the weekend, besides a few on the 144, there is absolutely none of them out and about - you catch the B line past Brookvale depot and see all the B12BLEA’s parked up together, sitting doing nothing, and AnyTrip confirms it. Absolutely none on the 199 either.

Time to move these to other regions I think

[stupid_girl]

Wow, these Northern Beaches bus changes have really culled the use of bendy buses in this region, for what was once bendy bus heartland. Unless that was the purpose of these changes.

On a weekday during the peak hour, there’s now only a very small handful to be seen on a few X routes, and on the weekend, besides a few on the 144, there is absolutely none of them out and about - you catch the B line past Brookvale depot and see all the B12BLEA’s parked up together, sitting doing nothing, and AnyTrip confirms it. Absolutely none on the 199 either.

Time to move these to other regions I think

They are used extensively on 100.

[Swift]

Bludger bendies. It seems the government wants them gone and it's trying to justify getting rid of them.
They were a Labor initiative.

[Jurassic_Joke]

Wow, these Northern Beaches bus changes have really culled the use of bendy buses in this region, for what was once bendy bus heartland. Unless that was the purpose of these changes.

On a weekday during the peak hour, there’s now only a very small handful to be seen on a few X routes, and on the weekend, besides a few on the 144, there is absolutely none of them out and about - you catch the B line past Brookvale depot and see all the B12BLEA’s parked up together, sitting doing nothing, and AnyTrip confirms it. Absolutely none on the 199 either.

Time to move these to other regions I think

They are used extensively on 100.

Yup , sorry I should’ve been clearer, I meant specifically the upper Northern Beaches routes out of Brookvale (and Mona Vale) depots - the 100 is run out of North Sydney as far as I know, and that depot received some second-hand bendy’s from Transit Systems specifically for this purpose

[Mr OC Benz]

Wow, these Northern Beaches bus changes have really culled the use of bendy buses in this region, for what was once bendy bus heartland. Unless that was the purpose of these changes.

On a weekday during the peak hour, there’s now only a very small handful to be seen on a few X routes, and on the weekend, besides a few on the 144, there is absolutely none of them out and about - you catch the B line past Brookvale depot and see all the B12BLEA’s parked up together, sitting doing nothing, and AnyTrip confirms it. Absolutely none on the 199 either.

Time to move these to other regions I think

A lot of this might be to do with pax shifting in greater numbers to B-Line. B-Line looks to have received some improvements with 8 min frequencies for most of the weekday off-peak and during parts of the weekend. So that ultimately means more double deckers out providing that extra capacity instead of artics on local routes. With more pax on B-Line, less pax on local routes, coupled with frequency uplift on local routes that previously used artics (178, 180, 199 etc), I guess there is less need for them. However, if you look at Anytrip around 5:30pm on a weekday afternoon, I think you'll find that there are still plenty out and about, with many of them on outbound expresses from Wynyard at this time.

As for weekends, they seem to only be on 144's and 114's, however, prior to these changes, they rarely operated on these routes to Manly and Balmoral respectively, despite the significant demand during summer leading to chronic overcrowding on warm days. So this is a welcomed change.

It would seem that there is some strategic thinking happening in terms of where artics should be allocated and that has resulted in there being less of a need outside of peak periods and besides the key leisure destinations on weekends. Patronage growth over coming years might justify increasing their use again on local routes around the beaches assuming that this growth doesn't predominantly occur on B-Line.

[tonyp]

They were a Labor initiative.

Well it's not the first time in politics that decisions have been influenced by spite. I guess the corollary will be that when Labor gets back in there'll be a purge of trams and double deck buses. Thank goodness the metro is bipartisan. I think the post-2005 fleet of artics came about because of Labor's anything-but-trams stance. During these years they were forced to address the rocketing population growth with high-capacity solutions. So they started looking at metro and talking about double-articulated buses until that got shot down by the road regulations. A large fleet of normal artics was the next logical step when they didn't want to consider trams and couldn't build enough metro lines fast enough.

I concur with Mr OCB's observation that there are plenty of artics out on the northern beaches in peaks but they dry up off-peak. They're high=capacity vehicles so it makes sense that their major use will be in peaks and to busy weekend leisure destinations like beaches.

I do think the B Line has fairly serious capacity constraints and it can only soak up so much extra patronage, so it shouldn't be over-rated as some miracle solution. It's simply not a tram or a train, it performs a tiny task by comparison. I see it as a boutique gesture in a region that is so wealthy that it's going to be car kingdom for years to come. Introducing a higher capacity mode is not going to achieve too much in relation to the capital cost, but a faster, more frequent Manly ferry might induce at least some swing towards PT in Manly. The B Line merely plugs a gap for the small demand for PT in the rest of the peninsula. Annual patronage in region 8 is only about 30 million, half the patronage of 6 or 9 and about the same as the Leppington train line. It's not a big region for PT usage at all.

[Linto63]

the 100 is run out of North Sydney as far as I know, and that depot received some second-hand bendy’s from Transit Systems specifically for this purpose

Route 100 is also operated by Brookvale with Custom bodied Volvo B12BLEAs. While a dozen or so Volgren bodied B12BLEAs were transferred from Transit Systems, there are plenty of rigids on it as well. Although we may need to wait for the school year to commence to see how this finally shakes down.

I guess the corollary will be that when Labor gets back in there'll be a purge of trams and double deck buses.

While they may go down a different path for future projects, they are unlikely to go on a Trump-esque wrecking spree. Political parties will seek to point out a project's shortcomings when in opposition, but once in government do nothing to alter the course.

I do think the B Line has fairly serious capacity constraints and it can only soak up so much extra patronage, so it shouldn't be over-rated as some miracle solution.

If every one of the 38 buses is on the road, capacity is only 3,200, B-Line was never going go to be a mass carrier of people.