December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

[Stu]

In the subject of new school diversions/replacements, this is what I have managed to find: The 689n & 703n seem to have been replaced by two 199s which terminate at Freshwater Campus; 1 that starts at Narrabeen which I assume replaces the 689n, which started at Mona Vale and another which starts at Avalon, where the 703n started. The 623n seems to have been replaced by a 199, which starts at Avalon and terminates at Mackellar Girls Campus. There is a 178 & 179 in the morning that terminate at St Luke's Grammar (not sure which school service(s) these are replacing). There is an afternoon 167 which starts at St Augustine's (not sure which school service this is replacing). There is also a morning 166 which starts at Dee Why that diverts via Freshwater Campus towards Manly. The 690n which previously only ran to Cromer Campus now has a new "route name" which suggests it will run to Collaroy Plateau PS, however, the route hasn't been edited (yet). The 750n also has had an edited "route name" which suggest it will run to Narraweena, instead of the current North Curl Curl, however, the route hasn't been edited (yet). The 694n & the afternoon 689n seem to be cancelled without replacement; I believe the 694n had extremely low patronage anyway but the 689n seemed to have enough patronage for 2 services.

The 167 from St. Augustines at Brookvale replaces the afternoon extension of former route 132.

[Stu]

The school term version for Region 8 revenue routes and school routes became available today.

[Special_K]

This should have been available 20 years ago at least but you know the pattern, it's always been this way there will be no trying another way lest we displease some two bit group living in the 50s who don't want anything to improve.
No we must adhere to a system devised by people lying in graves!
While I despair at how Sydney's landscape is getting blighted by apartment towers, mainly catering to foreigners, this is at least one example of a positive change. It would be horrible too have all the grotesque changes we're seeing, while steadfastly clinging to inefficient ways in other areas.

Swift, A belated comment to your statement concerning systems devised by people lying in the graves, or perhaps, laying in their graves! I agree that bus network changes appears to happen slowly and not to every ones liking. It is a sad fact that the Chief Scheduler and two of the Senior Schedulers who did the timetabling work for many of the Region 8/Northern Beaches service reviews, have in fact passed away from illness or cancer that cut short their lives not long after retirement! Two of them started on the job as bus conductors.

Too often, we forget the many people who, for their entire working lives, worked their way up through the system and applied their knowledgs and expertise to the DGT/UTA/STA. They stuck it out in an often inperfect system. It would be fitting that in any future publications on State Transit's history, that while there should be focus on buses and routes, there will also be a people focus on the incredible skills required to drive buses, maintain the fleet, plan the system, manage the daily grind and a host of other gifted individuals who continue to make it happen, even today!

Many of the contributors to this Board, while sometimes incognito, have had insights into STA's internal workings and have a unique perspective to comment on our industry. Thanks to all who make ATDB current and real!

[Stu]

The separation of school routes between Region 7 and Region 8 is now complete.

The current numbering system with the suffix (e, s, n or w) was introduced in Term 1 2016 to eradicate route number duplication across the four (now 3) individual contract regions all operated by STA, all route numbers became individual and were not able to be duplicated. This system also created efficiency and accuracy at the back end of office in the way OPAL data was recorded, processed and recorded as well as suiting the privatisation (franchising) agenda.

Regions operated by STA:
Region 6. Formerly STA 'Southern Region'. Suffix 's'.
Region 7. STA 'Western Region'. Suffix 'w'.
Region 8. STA 'Northern Region'. Suffix 'n'.
Region 9. STA 'Eastern Region'. Suffix 'e'.


Historical / previous.
Region 8 routes operated by Region 7 depots.
- Routes 578n, 579n, 580n, 581n, 592n, 595n, 596n & 707n.

Region 7 routes operated by Region 8 depots.
- Routes 652w, 660w, 661w, 691w & 750w.


Current.
1. Changes to some school routes in Region 7. 24/02/2020.
The schools affected were North Sydney Boys High, Epping Boys High & Anzac Village Public. There was also a new 694 AM trip from Lane Cove shops to Lane Cove Public.
- Routes 652w & 691w now operated by Region 7 depots.

2. Term 4 2020. 12/10/2020.
- Routes 578n, 579n, 580n, 581n, 592n, 595n, 596n & 707n now operated by Region 8 depots.
- Routes 750w now operated by Region 7 (Willoughby Depot).
- Routes 665w, 660w & 661w remained as being operated by Region 8 until the end of Term 4 (North Sydney Depot).

3. Term 1 2021. 29/01/2021.
Region 7 new network (24/01/2021) school day version timetable 29/01/2021 and Region 8 new network (20/12/2020) school day version timetable 29/01/2021.
- Withdrawn school routes from Region 8. 575n, 576n, 577n, 599n, 623n, 654n, 689n, 694n, 697n, 703n, 718n, 765n, 766n, 767n, 773n & 788n.
- Renumbered. 655w renumbered to 792n. 660w renumbered to 793n. 661w renumbered to 794n.

[Fleet Lists]

Region 7. STA 'Western Region'. Suffix 's'.

Should that be '
Region 7. STA 'Western Region'. Suffix 'w'. ?

[Stu]

^ Thanks, all fixed now. Copy and paste fail.

[CityRail]

I wonder whether STA and TSA can investigate whether they can update their rear desto font on newer buses, so that when the bus is running an express service, like 180X or 461X, the font of the bus route can fill the desto better?

I believe Hillsbus has done a good job on 610X etc, and other bus operators should follow so that passengers can see clearly at the back of the bus which route they are operating.

[Ray]

Stu, with all of the information you provide you are the absolute star contributor on this board - thank you.

What are your thoughts on the current utilisation rate at Willoughby? When I first saw that they were losing 144, 257 and 200 and weekend 263s I assumed they would pick up more Epping Rds. However, from my observation the M presence on Epping Rd has actually decreased this year. The only exception is of course weekends, which remain 100% M, including 252 for the first time.

Admittedly there are also more Nightrides. Perhaps the new 120 and 115 absorb slightly more resources than the old 343 and 340. However, my overall feeling is that M drivers must have less work overall.

[Swift]

Stu, with all of the information you provide you are the absolute star contributor on this board - thank you.

What are your thoughts on the current utilisation rate at Willoughby? When I first saw that they were losing 144, 257 and 200 and weekend 263s I assumed they would pick up more Epping Rds. However, from my observation the M presence on Epping Rd has actually decreased this year. The only exception is of course weekends, which remain 100% M, including 252 for the first time.

Good grief, is M now a pseudo satellite of Y?
Do they do anything along Military Rd and beyond now?

Agree Stu is a superstar and a gentleman.

[stupid_girl]

I guess sooner or later it will take over a frequent bus route between Gore Hill and city.

[swtt]

https://transportnsw.info/news/2021/nor ... s#homepage

New post highlighting the changes to the Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore school bus network.

[Swift]

Swift, A belated comment to your statement concerning systems devised by people lying in the graves, or perhaps, laying in their graves! I agree that bus network changes appears to happen slowly and not to every ones liking. It is a sad fact that the Chief Scheduler and two of the Senior Schedulers who did the timetabling work for many of the Region 8/Northern Beaches service reviews, have in fact passed away from illness or cancer that cut short their lives not long after retirement! Two of them started on the job as bus conductors.

Too often, we forget the many people who, for their entire working lives, worked their way up through the system and applied their knowledgs and expertise to the DGT/UTA/STA. They stuck it out in an often inperfect system. It would be fitting that in any future publications on State Transit's history, that while there should be focus on buses and routes, there will also be a people focus on the incredible skills required to drive buses, maintain the fleet, plan the system, manage the daily grind and a host of other gifted individuals who continue to make it happen, even today!

Many of the contributors to this Board, while sometimes incognito, have had insights into STA's internal workings and have a unique perspective to comment on our industry. Thanks to all who make ATDB current and real!

It took a court case to get Sydney to try and catch up to international best practice regards wheelchair access.
This report makes you realise how behind the place was in 1995 while people making the decisions were no doubt drawing bloated salaries.

https://youtu.be/TEySVw51c8M

[tonyp]

It took a court case to get Sydney to try and catch up to international best practice regards wheelchair access.
This report makes you realise how behind the place was in 1995 while people making the decisions were no doubt drawing bloated salaries.

I do find the legal basis for that case interesting because, from what I recall of the DDA timelines and regulations, bus fleets were only required to reach 25% compliance by end of 2007 and 90% compliance by end of 2017, but to achieve those objectives in a fleet of vehicles with a twenty year lifecycle, they would have to start implementing the change in any new orders way ahead of the deadlines. So to achieve legal success to kick off that process when the agency was showing no signs of doing it themselves at that time was really something. Nobody should have been ordering high floor buses in the mid 1990s when the engineering advances had been in place for over a decade overseas and were well-known. Indeed there were fully low-floor DAB buses operating in Perth from 1996 and the new Sydney Light Rail was being implemented with full accessibility (by the DDA standards of the time) at the same time. You couldn't say that they weren't aware of it. More likely it was not considered "core business" or just too inconvenient to consider - and it still is approached in a minimalistic manner, even to the point of reintroducing stepped doorways where they can legally get away with it. Wherever the talent may lie in the NSW government sector, it's not in the field of bus specification and design.

[Swift]

It's just wonderous to watch how the people who make decisions in NSW act as though they are the universal authority on what would best be suitable to the public here in the face of overseas experience.
They get to go home to their upper middle class suburb.in a private car while still claiming they are the universal guru on public transport matters because of a bunch of diplomas on their wall with fancy calligraphy that some communist university somewhere issued to them. Oh, forgot, they're Australian too, so that further affirms their credentials (in their own minds of course).

[Ray]

To return to our earlier discussion about the dismal decline of Willoughby depot. As at 11am this morning, there are 12 buses operating Epping Rd services. Every single one of these is from Ryde (Volvo CB80 or Volvo Volgren or Mercedes 0500). So the old 14.5m shifts have finally been moved over.

Of course, this should have been done years ago. But the long term implication is that M should perhaps be moved over to Region 8 and assist with 144s and 160X.

[Stu]

Stu, with all of the information you provide you are the absolute star contributor on this board - thank you.

What are your thoughts on the current utilisation rate at Willoughby? When I first saw that they were losing 144, 257 and 200 and weekend 263s I assumed they would pick up more Epping Rds. However, from my observation the M presence on Epping Rd has actually decreased this year. The only exception is of course weekends, which remain 100% M, including 252 for the first time.

Admittedly there are also more Nightrides. Perhaps the new 120 and 115 absorb slightly more resources than the old 343 and 340. However, my overall feeling is that M drivers must have less work overall.

Thank you. Besides discussions and debates, the ATDB is a great source of historical information as each year goes by.

Your observations about services along Epping Rd makes sense and you are right, the reason is due to the routes 115 & 120 being 100% allocated to Willoughby. The efficiencies for Willoughby Depot are being close to terminals (Sydney CBD and Chatswood) and the ability to have driver relief at Willoughby (Penshurst St & Laurel St and Penshurst St & Rosewall St).

The ability for Ryde to operate more Epping Rd services comes from the loss of route 458 to R6 Transit Systems, this frees up buses and drivers. Weekends frequencies are less so this allows for Willoughby to operate Epping Rd services all weekend.

Ryde operate N80 & N81 and Willoughby operate N90 & N91.

[Xplorer]

Don't forget with some 50x and 51x cut back to Ryde, and city services cut to just Hyde Park/Domain, there should be quite a bit of kilometres available for use elsewhere.

Be interested to know how much Y contributes with Northbridge services these days

[Stu]

I have elaborated on the previous information that I posted about school services that had been withdrawn and renumbered, plus I have posted some new information about school services that have been modified.

Great to see detailed info displayed on the Transport NSW Info website. about these major changes. I knew that there would be extensive changes although don't understand why the information was not published earlier on the Transport NSW Info website, this should have been done to supplement the communications program that TfNSW & STA implemented with all affected schools.

The affected schools were contacted in October & November 2020, then the Region 8 bus service changes were implemented at the beginning of the end of year (Term 4) school holidays, many months had gone by and the information communicated to schools and parents would have been forgotten about in Term 4 and over the school holidays which is why this information should have been published at least in the second week of January 2021.

I believe that the info was created very recently and was only uploaded yesterday after very negative media attention.

Withdrawn.
575n.
City (Wynyard) to Mosman High School.

576n.
St. Leonards Station to Queenwood College (Mosman).

577n.
Lane Cove Shops to Mosman High School.

599n.
St. Leonards Station to Mosman (Spit Jct.).

623n.
Avalon (Careel Head Rd) to Northern Beaches Secondary College (Mackellar Girls Campus).

654n.
St. Augustine’s College (Brookvale) to Manly Wharf (East Esp).

663n.
Avalon to St. Pauls College (Manly) (AM) / St. Pauls College (Manly) to Avalon (PM).

689n.
Mona Vale (Mona Vale Jct.) to Northern Beaches Secondary College (Balgowlah Boys Campus).
Northern Beaches Secondary College (Balgowlah Boys Campus) to Avalon (Careel Head).
Northern Beaches Secondary College (Balgowlah Boys Campus) to Mona Vale Jct.

694n.
War Veterans Home (Wheeler Heights) to St. Paul’s College (Manly).

697n.
Cromer (Carrawa Rd) to St. Paul’s College (Manly).

703n.
Avalon (Barrenjoey Rd) to Brookvale Shops.

718n.
Avalon Public School to Avalon (Careel Head Rd).

765n.
Manly Wharf (West Esp) to Milsons Point Wharf. (AM)
Milsons Point (Broughton St) to Manly Wharf (East Esp). (PM)

766n.
Avalon (Barrenjoey Rd) to Milsons Point Wharf. (different stopping pattern compared to 767n)

767n.
Avalon (Barrenjoey Rd) to Milsons Point Wharf. (different stopping pattern compared to 766n)

773n.
Bilgola Plateau Public School to Avalon Community Library.

788n.
Manly Wharf (West Esp) to Milsons Point Wharf.


Modified.
597n.
Seaforth (Battle Blvd) to Seaforth shops. (previously operated to North Sydney Stn)

687n.
North Curl Curl to Manly Wharf (Belgrave St). (previously operated to Milsons Point Wharf).
Freshwater to Manly Wharf (Belgrave St). (previously operated to Milsons Point Wharf).

709n.
Mosman (Balmoral Beach) to Mosman High School. (previously operated to Milsons Point Wharf).

723n.
Seaforth shops to Oxford Falls Grammar School (AM). (previously operated from Manly Wharf).
Seaforth shops to Oxford Falls Grammar School (AM). (new additional trip).
Balgowlah North to Oxford Falls Grammar School (AM). (extended - previously operated from Seaforth shops).
Oxford Falls Grammar School to Manly Wharf (West Esp) (PM). (no change to service)


Renumbered.
792n.
North Sydney Boys High School to Taronga Park Zoo. (formerly 655w)

793n.
North Sydney Girls High School to Manly Wharf (West Esp) via Balgowlah Heights & Fairlight. (formerly 660w)

794n.
North Sydney Girls School to Manly Wharf (West Esp) via Battle Blvd & Seaforth shops. (formerly 661w)

[Linto63]

Pre December, Ryde was also operating (at least some) route 261 Lane Cove - CBD and 265 Lane Cove - North Sydney services that traditionally were operated by Willoughby, presumably these have returned.

[Swift]

Seven News report about "furious" parents claiming kids getting stranded at bus stops, not informed of changes until the day before school resumed, have to use three buses where a direct one used to run between Balgowlah and North Sydney, taking an hour etc etc.

[pgt]

I can only presume it was one of those rostering quirks that led to one of the Brookvale articulated Euro3 Volvos operating, of all routes, a route 243 starting from Neutral Bay Junction towards North Cremorne [then Spit Junction].

Would hardly think a route 243 service needed an articulated bus, let alone a service that starts at Neutral Bay Junction (post changes), so guessing it was filling in on the way back to the depot (do they do that these days?) or some other quirk, as I'm not sure if it's a regular thing.

[Mr OC Benz]

I think it's a regular occurrence since the start of school term. It does some busy peak runs, then does a few round trips of short 243's prior to heading back to the depot.

[boronia]

At Chatswood today, I noticed that the next bus display shows the 120 going to "Chatswood". I asked some guy with a clipboard what that meant and he told me "it is a local service that just does a loop around the suburb".

Have to wonder why these signs can't show meaningful information?

[moa999]

At Chatswood today, I noticed that the next bus display shows the 120 going to "Chatswood".?

Isn't 120 Chatswood-QVB ?

[Fleet Lists]

Yes but it is timetabled as a loop service back to Chatswood which is causing the problem.