WS Airport Metro

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marcnut1996
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by marcnut1996 »

Was looking at https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/corridors/nsrl-swrl and https://corridors.ucapp.com.au/project/ ... -link-ext/ and it seems they no longer propose to extend North South Rail Link further north to Schofields.

Also, exact station location maps are in this document. https://www.sydneymetro.info/sites/defa ... r_2020.pdf
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by tonyp »

marcnut1996 wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:48 am Was looking at https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/corridors/nsrl-swrl and https://corridors.ucapp.com.au/project/ ... -link-ext/ and it seems they no longer propose to extend North South Rail Link further north to Schofields.

Also, exact station location maps are in this document. https://www.sydneymetro.info/sites/defa ... r_2020.pdf
That latter document answers your question. The link to Schofields/Tallawong is still there, as it is in the long-term plan.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by Transtopic »

In Transit wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:37 am Exactly Tony. Disappointing to see this described above as absurd - I'd call it highly desirable!
Perhaps I didn't express myself clearly enough. The point I was trying to make is the absurdity of the SWRL extension terminating at the Aerotropolis short of the Airport, requiring interchange to go one more stop. That's a perfectly legitimate criticism.

I understand that I'm a lone voice here, but would there be the same silence if the Metro West extension terminated at the Airport, requiring interchange to go one more stop to the Aerotropolis? I think not. While some of you blithely suggest that people just have to get used to interchanging between lines, whether metro or Sydney Trains, it's hardly customer friendly, particularly in this circumstance in denying them direct access to the Airport by one stop, from the whole of South Western Sydney and the CBD by the most direct route. Just because they are travelling on the Sydney Trains' system, doesn't make them second class citizens and they deserve the same direct access to the Airport as metro customers.

I have repeatedly expressed my opinion that the SWRL extension to the Airport should have been the first priority, with the future metro lines (if they must be) coming later. However, this State Government's ideological preference for metro wouldn't countenance that. This is hardly what I'd call metro territory on the outer fringe of Sydney, warranting high frequency services (30tph) with limited seating. It's pure overkill.

The immediate extension of the SWRL has the advantage of servicing existing established communities and the new development now taking place in the South West Growth Region. It also provides a more direct and faster rail link connecting with the CBD much sooner than would otherwise be the case, without using the congested Western Line corridor via St Marys as an interim measure. Future metro extensions to Macarthur, Schofields and Metro West at Westmead are still decades away. There are also proposed metro lines in the established higher density inner and middle ring suburbs which are likely to receive greater priority. You can only build so much in a given time-frame.

Despite the proposed development of a limited number of high density clusters along the metro link between the Aerotropolis/Airport and St Marys, it will still be some years before the population density reaches a critical mass to warrant a frequent rail service. There's no immediate urgency to connect this link with the Airport, when there will be few residents and businesses initially, compared with a ready made catchment coming from the SWRL extension. Rome wasn't built in a day you know. But I forgot - that's Sydney Trains, so it doesn't count.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by swtt »

How would you know they're not holding cards to their chest for another announcement closer to the next election? :)
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by boronia »

What is the desirability of having heavy rail access to somewhere near the airport for fuel supplies?

Despite the fact that TfNSW is "investigating" a pipeline from Botany Bay , it may be some time after the airport opens before it is viable. A recent report suggested needing up to 65 B-doubles per day if it is trucked out,
https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/projec ... l-pipeline
https://westernweekender.com.au/2019/05 ... o-airport/

Perhaps an interim facility could be provided off the SWRL extension to enable cartage by rail. Fuel would be pumped by a shorter pipeline from there to the airport storage terminal. This facility could be hooked up to the pipeline i/when it is eventually built. It could remain as an emergency back up in the event of failure of the pipeline.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by tonyp »

There's a freight line from the Main West on the northern side of the precinct.

Qantas today talking up consolidating all of its 7,000 office and maintenance employees to a new national office and maintenance centre at WSA. (Queensland etc will of course fight this tooth and nail.) With an airport there, my prediction is that this city will become very big quite quickly. Look at how NW grew. This will be bigger. Airports are magnets for development.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by boronia »

In the Ch 9 News tonight they were talking about QANTAS packing up Sydney and moving to Melbourne. Apparently Andrews has been chatting up Joyce about it.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by ed24 »

swtt wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:57 am How would you know they're not holding cards to their chest for another announcement closer to the next election? :)
I doubt they will introduce something completely outside the plan - I could see them fast-tracking the extension to Macarthur or Tallawong though.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by tonyp »

boronia wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:40 pm In the Ch 9 News tonight they were talking about QANTAS packing up Sydney and moving to Melbourne. Apparently Andrews has been chatting up Joyce about it.
It was the Chief Financial Officer of Qantas who was on the news floating WSA as a possibility.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by boronia »

https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 55vq2.html
[Qantas Group chief financial officer Vanessa Hudson said the group will look at what "incentives" state governments can provide when deciding where to base its workforce, which prompted a flood of promised support from east-coast governments.
Looks like the start of a bidding war.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

I think the original plan the feds had for the western Sydney airport was to build it on acquired land within the training grounds at the Holsworthy army base but with the backlash from Campbelltown council and communities on the Campbelltown LGA side of the George's river witch would of been loudest around 25 years ago and the cost of removing live land mines from the site so they ended up picked this site in Badgerys Creek where it's easier for the state government to build a rail line
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by Linto63 »

tonyp wrote: Airports are magnets for development.
WSA will be the equivalent of Avalon in Melbourne, i.e. a destination for budget and freight airlines. Light industry and airport associated industries will come along with maybe some hotels, but the big boys will continue to use Mascot as their hub.
boronia wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:40 pmIn the Ch 9 News tonight they were talking about Qantas packing up Sydney and moving to Melbourne. Apparently Andrews has been chatting up Joyce about it.
Why do state governments see it as necessary to prop up commercial businesses? Airlines should stand or die on their ability to sell a commercially viable product and pay their way like everybody does, state governments should just call the airlines bluff much like the Abbot government did when Qantas turned up at the begging bowl. They are just as likely to bank the cheque and then continue to move work offshore, as they have already done with maintenance.
Campbelltown busboy wrote: I think the original plan the feds had for the western Sydney airport was to build it on acquired land within the training grounds at the Holsworthy army base...
Maybe many years ago, but Badgerys Creek has long been the designated site.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

Linto63 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:53 am
Campbelltown busboy wrote: I think the original plan the feds had for the western Sydney airport was to build it on acquired land within the training grounds at the Holsworthy army base...
Maybe many years ago, but Badgerys Creek has long been the designated site.
There was two reasons that the Holsworthy airport ides didn't work one would of been the land mine thing then there was idea that the main runway would be bridged westward over the river witch would have involved the conversion of a part of Old Kent road in Kentlyn to runway witch would of got Campbelltown council off side
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by boronia »

Campbelltown busboy wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:54 am I think the original plan the feds had for the western Sydney airport was to build it on acquired land within the training grounds at the Holsworthy army base but with the backlash from Campbelltown council and communities on the Campbelltown LGA side of the George's river witch would of been loudest around 25 years ago and the cost of removing live land mines from the site so they ended up picked this site in Badgerys Creek where it's easier for the state government to build a rail line
They were also looking at Winton and Somersby in that era. I think even Goulburn was a suggestion.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by Linto63 »

The land at Badgerys Creek was identified and purchased by the Hawke government, so has been the preferred option for at least 30 years.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by boronia »

Campbelltown busboy wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:54 am I think the original plan the feds had for the western Sydney airport was to build it on acquired land within the training grounds at the Holsworthy army base but with the backlash from Campbelltown council and communities on the Campbelltown LGA side of the George's river witch would of been loudest around 25 years ago and the cost of removing live land mines from the site so they ended up picked this site in Badgerys Creek where it's easier for the state government to build a rail line
The land was a live firing range. The problem would have been unexploded artillery, not land mines.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by boxythingy »

Thought it would be appropriate to wander down nostalgia lane with this video noting relevance and recent 20th anniversary of the Sydney 2000 Games XXVII Olympiad:
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by gilberations »

Surely logic would decree building the St Mary’s - Tallawong link at the same time, then they wouldn’t need a new stabling facility...?
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by tonyp »

gilberations wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:10 am Surely logic would decree building the St Mary’s - Tallawong link at the same time, then they wouldn’t need a new stabling facility...?
There seems to be some sort of decision to split what seems to us to be one line (Liverpool-Bankstown-City-Tallawong-Macarthur) into two lines with interchange at Schofields. I presume this is because they want to tender to a different operator for the Schofields-Macarthur section. I think the total length of the line is no longer than the Butler-Mandurah line in Perth which is one operation (with the major depot at Clarkson and a sub-depot at Mandurah). Seems to work fine like this, but if they want to do it differently in Sydney then there's nothing we can say. Having to change trains on the same line at Schofields will be a bit of an inconvenience to some, especially if e.g. you're only riding from say Rouse Hill to Marsden Park.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by grog »

There could be other reasons... shorter trains more often for the same rolling stock spend? Faster trains for the greater distances between stations? I guess the EIS could have more answers when it comes out.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by tonyp »

They may also want AC electrification on any new lines. DC is used on Tallawong-Bankstown because there are long existing sections of DC already in place.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by boronia »

gilberations wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:10 am Surely logic would decree building the St Mary’s - Tallawong link at the same time, then they wouldn’t need a new stabling facility...?
Presumably the Tallewong yard has been designed with sufficient future capacity for the Schofields - Bankstown section. (more, and longer, trains)

It may not be able to cater for any additional lines beyond that?
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by jaseee »

It's also operationally better to keep them separate as well, otherwise issues on trains in the NWRL will end up impacting trains on this line as well.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by moa999 »


boronia wrote:
Presumably the Tallewong yard has been designed with sufficient future capacity for the Schofields - Bankstown section. (more, and longer, trains)
See the Sydney Metro site.
Tallawong Trains Facility was designed to be constructed in two phases.
The second expansion is now underway and should be complete by end 2020.

There is also going to be supplementary Trains Facility South at Marrickville.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by 385BUZ »

Just found this thread... quite a bit different from the Brisbane metro!! Governments like to have their own definitions of things! 😂

https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/traffic ... bane-metro
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