NSW Electric Bus Plan

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
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Campbelltown busboy
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

tonyp wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:17 pm Well, as by far the most senior extant Australian bus builder they know a lot and have huge experience. Much of it boils down to limits set by the client (most Australian agencies/operators aren't as smart as PTA WA), but with this one Custom has free rein. Just wait till they run into TfNSW who probably won't understand the significance of a low floor. The details are very well thought out. Quite high seating capacity and no wasted space unlike many designs. Note four mother and child seats around the front wheel arches yet still some luggage rack in between:
Transport For NSW might go for the Custom Element then that would show the premier that we can manufacture and build things like electric buses in NSW rather then relying on Chinese bus manufactures like BYD and BCI to suply NSW with electric buses
Last edited by Campbelltown busboy on Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by moa999 »

Element looks good.
What's the layout over the rear wheels?
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

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Campbelltown busboy wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:43 pm
tonyp wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:17 pm Well, as by far the most senior extant Australian bus builder they know a lot and have huge experience. Much of it boils down to limits set by the client (most Australian agencies/operators aren't as smart as PTA WA), but with this one Custom has free rein. Just wait till they run into TfNSW who probably won't understand the significance of a low floor. The details are very well thought out. Quite high seating capacity and no wasted space unlike many designs. Note four mother and child seats around the front wheel arches yet still some luggage rack in between:
Transport For NSW might go for the Custom Element then that would show the premier that we can manufacture and build things like electric buses in NSW rather then relying on Chinese bus manufactures like BYD and BCI to suply NSW with electric buses
Isn't it up to the operator and not Transport for NSW?
Living in the Shire.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

moa999 wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:45 pm Element looks good.
What's the layout over the rear wheels?
I recall they're all forward-facing seats, if you're referring to the practice of having some seats over the rear wheel-arches facing rearwards (like the MAN Gemilangs).

You might also note in the photo the return of the rear window, a long-lost friend missing in action for many years! Enjoy it before somebody comes along and sticks wrap over it.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

tonyp wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 7:03 am
moa999 wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:45 pm Element looks good.
What's the layout over the rear wheels?
I recall they're all forward-facing seats, if you're referring to the practice of having some seats over the rear wheel-arches facing rearwards (like the MAN Gemilangs).

You might also note in the photo the return of the rear window, a long-lost friend missing in action for many years! Enjoy it before somebody comes along and sticks wrap over it.
If operators in NSW made orders for the Custom Elememt then that rear window will be the home of that mandatory 40 when lights flash sicker witch Transport For NSW might probably have recently increased the size of
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

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I'm rather impressed. Full low-floor, potential space for a third door (assuming the drivetrain is on the offside), and a laminate floor which makes it look rather a bit luxurious. Nice to see that they've decided to take advantage of designing a new body, and I'm interested to see it in service.
I'd post any important, bus-related links I had, but they're outdated anyways.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

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Bus Suggestions wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:22 pm I'm rather impressed. Full low-floor, potential space for a third door (assuming the drivetrain is on the offside), and a laminate floor which makes it look rather a bit luxurious. Nice to see that they've decided to take advantage of designing a new body, and I'm interested to see it in service.
The motor and shaft on this one are on the nearside but the design is flexible and it can be moved to the offside for a rear door if required.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by moa999 »


tonyp wrote: I recall they're all forward-facing seats,

You might also note in the photo the return of the rear window, a long-lost friend missing in action for many years.
Interested to see how they manage it

Rear window a definite improvement.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

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The Yutong E12 also has a rear window but you wouldn't notice it as every operator afaik has plastered something over it.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

tonyp wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:02 pm The Yutong E12 also has a rear window but you wouldn't notice it as every operator afaik has plastered something over it.
Would that regulated 40 when lights flash warning sign for activated flashing school lights that has to be stuck on the back of every route service bus in NSW be one of those things
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

Bus Suggestions wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:22 pm I'm rather impressed. Full low-floor, potential space for a third door (assuming the drivetrain is on the offside), and a laminate floor which makes it look rather a bit luxurious. Nice to see that they've decided to take advantage of designing a new body, and I'm interested to see it in service.
Apparently they're going to make a pitch for the WA market too, so things should get interesting. That Volgren Volvo electric better be good and they'd better hurry up with it!
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Merc1107 »

Technically, the Perth contract was 5yrs with option for a further 5yrs... So, there is the possibility Perth could abandon Volvo/Volgren - although it seems unlikely that would eventuate.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

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Merc1107 wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:31 pm Technically, the Perth contract was 5yrs with option for a further 5yrs... So, there is the possibility Perth could abandon Volvo/Volgren - although it seems unlikely that would eventuate.
While NSW is diving full tilt into whole-of-fleet replacement by electric buses, other states and territories (except ACT which has put out a substantial call for expressions of interest) are only just dipping their toes into it. So it seems so far that there will still be a substantial delivery of diesels for Australian city systems for a while. This suggests that there will still be plenty of work for Volgren WA in diesel buses for a few years yet. I imagine PTA will stick with the current five year contract at least (which ends when?) and obviously keeping the factory at Malaga going will be a high political priority. Custom would have to open a WA plant of its own to have a realistic chance of stealing that away.

Personally I would encourage PTA to build up as many artics as possible as these will take a little longer to transition to electric (though Custom will start working on artics at a further stage). The 12 metre rigid diesel bus will, I reckon, be close to being dead in the water as a viable new citybus purchase within the next two or three years, when you think along the timeline of what will change during the twenty year lifecycle. A diesel bus in 2041 will be as quaint a relic as the pyramids!

The other thing is that a lot of work has to be done nationally on electricity supply priorities. There is on the one hand a political objective (and international pressure) to get rid of polluting sources like coal, yet the notion of that being entirely replaced by renewables that are both reliable and cheap is fanciful. So the nuclear discussion in the coal-dependent eastern states has to kick off and move forward. WA is cushioned for now by its use of gas.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by 1whoknows »

The Perth contract does provide for the introduction of new technology buses during its life. They are starting with the Volvo hydrogen ones which are due later this year.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

1whoknows wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:17 am The Perth contract does provide for the introduction of new technology buses during its life. They are starting with the Volvo hydrogen ones which are due later this year.
These are battery-electric buses as I understand. Hydrogen buses were trialled in Perth about 15 years ago.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by LB608 »

Any one know what depot STA m/o6520 custom Denning electric demonstrater bus is at
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by 1whoknows »

It will be running from Waverley
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

Odd that no electric buses have shown on Anytrip for the past two days since the Element arrived at Waverley. Maybe it blew a fuse when they plugged it in? :shock:
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Nugget »

I wouldn't be surprised if it was an incompatible charging system. So they plugged it in and came back with a zero charge on it.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

Nugget wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:07 am I wouldn't be surprised if it was an incompatible charging system. So they plugged it in and came back with a zero charge on it.
That's not likely to happen. There's a photo posted of the bus under the harbour bridge at Milsons Point last night so it looks like they can't resist taking it for a good spin even after hours!
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

A set of profile views of the Element. There's room for that "40" sign above the rear window, so the window is clear (pardon the pun) to be covered with advertising.

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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

tonyp wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:23 pm A set of profile views of the Element. There's room for that "40" sign above the rear window, so the window is clear (pardon the pun) to be covered with advertising.
That’s is if Transport For NSW doesn’t ban advertisers from using buses as moving billboards
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

I copied this post to here from the STA thread as it's more relevant here:
Jurassic_Joke wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:48 am
The Yutong is much quieter which I appreciate, and also has front seats - the Gemilang omits these. In fact the Yutong has more seats as it is - 40 seats vs Gemilangs 36.
Incidentally, the Custom Element has 43 seats and the BCI 45, so the Australian designs are better on this. The Chinese buses have very large rear cabinets that basically cost a row of seats.

Edit: Just searching further afield for comparison, I note that the single, Australian-designed, Bustech prototype in Adelaide has 41 seats. The Volgren BYD D9RA prototype in Melbourne has 39 seats, but that's boosted by the typical Melbourne single-leaf centre door, so if the door was double leaf, the figure would be more like 37. Incidentally, the Yutong demonstrators also have a single leaf centre door, so with a double leaf, the seating capacity would be no more than 38. It's a symptom of the compromises you get with Chinese design - they're not the best.

Of course, the Australians have their slip-ups too. The Element is clearly the best design overall. The BCI could be good but it's compromised by the high floor at the rear. The Bustech is fully low floor but the window-line is so high that seated passengers can't see out, a bit of a Bustech hallmark. Volgren is normally a clever designer but clearly they've been constrained here by the (Chinese) part-high floor chassis they've been given. It will be interesting to see what they accomplish in WA on a Volvo low floor electric chassis.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

Further on capacity, Custom is taking advantage of the low floor to claim a total of 80 passenger capacity (43 seats, 37 standees), which would be pretty much the highest of any 12.5 metre rigid bus with two double-leaf doors in NSW. What the final legal capacity is will be revealed with certification and I also don't know if the RTBU still enforces that 15 standees rule which would be a great shame if they do.

Has anybody noted the total capacity figure on the imprint at the rear of any of the other electric buses? I thing it's quite low on the Chinese buses but it would be interesting to know about the BCI. I recall that the Yutong's capacity is very low, like 60 something.

Edit: This may be hard to check at the moment as I can see no sign of any electric buses at all running in Sydney for the last few days. Is there some sort of review going on?
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by moa999 »

^
Or did someone at Anytrip break the filter when adding more entries.
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