NSW Electric Bus Plan

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
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ScaniaGrenda
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by ScaniaGrenda »

Was hoping for a second there when I saw the words "Keolis Downer" it meant they were finally planning to bring E-Buses forward to Newcastle making it a first in the region but turns out I get a little excited and I missed reading "region 8" and that this just means Sydney & another STA operations being handed to the private sector.
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booma
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by booma »

Is it possible to retro fit electric motors to B- Line deckers?

Or just easier to build new electric deckers?
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Merc1107 »

tonyp wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 5:56 am There's still a lot of work to be done reconfiguring depots for charging large numbers of electric buses. Also I'm not sure if agreement has been reached on standardised charging.
Not to mention finding a reliable source of electricity... Aussie cities already face blackouts just because of hot weather; with thousands of buses potentially being charged concurrently I wonder if the issue won't worsen?
Linto63
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Linto63 »

One would hope that they would get their ducks in a row, but you never know. In the UK, the TfNSW equivalent accepts a franchise bid that specifies new electric trains that will draw more power. Yet nobody checks if the network can handle them, so they end up in store until the infrastructure is upgraded. And decades later they still make the same mistake, some of their new bi-modes are having to operate on diesel under the wires until the infrastructure is completed.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

Merc1107 wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 3:42 pm
Not to mention finding a reliable source of electricity... Aussie cities already face blackouts just because of hot weather; with thousands of buses potentially being charged concurrently I wonder if the issue won't worsen?
Indeed. Well, we used to have that until environmentalism distorted (buggered) the energy market, both in terms of reliability and pricing. Now we have to patiently wait for the one major solution that should satisfy all players (nuclear power) to be adopted and take up the load. I always find it funny with some electric transit enthusiasts that some of its strongest advocates are also those who also advocate reducing the effectiveness of the electricity supply. Indeed there's a whole political party seemingly dedicated to doing just that! Everybody has some right on their side though. From the viewpoint of energy security, we simply can't continue to rely on oil and, in environmental terms, phasing out coal is only a good thing, but it doesn't have to be done in an economically destructive rush, especially when many countries (like China) continue to be able to use it with impunity.
Linto63 wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 9:15 am One would hope that they would get their ducks in a row, but you never know. In the UK, the TfNSW equivalent accepts a franchise bid that specifies new electric trains that will draw more power. Yet nobody checks if the network can handle them, so they end up in store until the infrastructure is upgraded. And decades later they still make the same mistake, some of their new bi-modes are having to operate on diesel under the wires until the infrastructure is completed.
That has happened with the E class trams in Melbourne.
moa999
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by moa999 »

And in NSW where many rail lines have had to be upgraded for power hungry aircon sets.

That said buses will predominantly be charged at night.. just keep them off over the summer aircon peaks and no issue.

Of course that is the period when our energy mix is typically less green.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

moa999 wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 9:32 am
That said buses will predominantly be charged at night.. just keep them off over the summer aircon peaks and no issue.

Of course that is the period when our energy mix is typically less green.
That's the irony. It's coal that gets us through the night.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by moa999 »


tonyp wrote: That's the irony. It's coal that gets us through the night.
Still some wind and hydro.

And that was the point of Snowy 2.0 - to use the excess solar in the day to pump water uphill so you can release it again at night.

But yes.. still a lot of coal at night.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

moa999 wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 12:44 pm
tonyp wrote: That's the irony. It's coal that gets us through the night.
Still some wind and hydro.

And that was the point of Snowy 2.0 - to use the excess solar in the day to pump water uphill so you can release it again at night.

But yes.. still a lot of coal at night.
The live chart here tells the story.

https://www.energymatters.com.au/energy ... tatistics/

There are big variations in the renewables but coal and gas are there solidly in the background all day. Having got rid of coal, SA rarely produces enough electricity for its own needs and relies on the interconnector with the east coast grid. Tasmania is underpinned by hydro and is the only state where it plays a significant role. As NSW and Queensland often don't produce enough electricity for their own needs and Victoria produces more than it needs, Victoria's lignite stations are vital to the whole network. At which point, Victoria's green government is bound to start talking about closing them .....

It's a terrible mess brought about by politics at its most stupid, but let's be grateful at least that buses will no longer pollute the cities in which they operate.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by moa999 »

Saw this on a FB group.

Two electrics going to Transdev for Hornsby and North Shore.

Image
tonyp
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

These are from the batch of Volgren-bodied BYDs that Transdev acquired for its operations in Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by booma »

I wonder if any terminii such as Palm beach or Lapa will get a 3 phase power point to help recharge buses which may be low on wattage?

That way buses may be able to special back to depot for a full charge.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by pgt »

booma wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:31 pm I wonder if any terminii such as Palm beach or Lapa will get a 3 phase power point to help recharge buses which may be low on wattage?

That way buses may be able to special back to depot for a full charge.
Using very rough measurements on Google Maps, the bus would have to consistently be quite low on charge to warrant anything like a dedicated charger at the termini, especially as La Perouse is only about 4km from Port Botany, and Palm Beach about 13.5km from Mona Vale depot.
If those doing the scheduling for the buses didn't factor in range of the bus given termini proximity to the depot, that'd be a huge problem - and I'd imagine one would do similar calculations for gas and diesel buses too.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by moa999 »

From an EV perspective.
ABC - Always be Charging...

If you've got a 20min layover at Palm Beach..why not put in a charging plug.
tonyp
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

moa999 wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:38 pm From an EV perspective.
ABC - Always be Charging...

If you've got a 20min layover at Palm Beach..why not put in a charging plug.
A standard 12 metre electric bus is now pretty universally good (varies between manufacturers) for running all day with only overnight charging, up to 350 to 400 km which covers most urban commuter bus scenarios. It also depends if the bus is driven correctly as regen can add 20 to 30% to the range. Top-up charges at termini are likely to come with electric artics and deckers, at the present state of the technology (and even that may change), but not necessary for 12 metre buses. Opportunity charging at stops along routes should have disappeared with the ark by now. That was just a waste of time and money.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by BAMBAM »

Custom Bus Element M/O 6520 is now at Red Bus Service, noted today at Gosford today heading to The Entrance on route 22. This bus was previously at Premier Illawarra and State Transit.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by moa999 »

Not NSW..
But nice video of a Yutong E10 in Newcastle, UK.
Seems fully specced with bucket seats, wireless charging, and lots of electric looking colours and Volta branding.
Similar 2-steps to rear that we've seen here.

https://youtu.be/i8cLJHjneEk

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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by HHH »

6 x BYD buses delivered to Leichhardt today.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Fleet Lists »

I assume that includes the five shown in https://fleetlists.busaustralia.com/tsa ... &ltype=new
Living in the Shire.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by HHH »

^ No, those ones are still at the Genilang factory. 8358, 8359, 8360, 8361, 8362, 8363 are already showing in the list for Leichhardt Depot, maybe someone updated the list this afternoon as the buses drove in after midday along with a small demonstrator suv type of electric vehicle.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by marcnut1996 »

Constance was at Custom Denning this morning (from his Linkedin)

Here's the media release:
https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/news-a ... ufacturing
Charging Ahead with Local Manufacturing
Published9 Jun 2021
The first locally manufactured electric buses will roll out in Sydney later this year, as the NSW Government charges ahead with its plan to electrify the bus fleet by 2030.

Minister for Transport and Roads Andrew Constance said the Element electric bus, built by Custom Denning, will be the first electric bus entirely manufactured in NSW.

“We are another step closer to creating a greener, cleaner and healthier future for the people of NSW, thanks to Custom Denning manufacturing electric buses at its factory in St Marys,” Mr Constance said.

“Custom’s Element electric bus has undergone a thorough assessment and I am excited to see it now included on a list of electric buses available to Transport for NSW’s bus operators.”

“Busways has already placed an order for six new electric buses from Custom, and I look forward to many more local bus companies taking up the opportunity to support local manufacturing and local jobs.”

Custom Bus Group Managing Director Scott Dunn said Custom has been building buses in Sydney for more than 65 years, and has built more than 700 diesel buses for the NSW Government over the past 10 years.

There are currently 12 people working on the electric bus project. However, we have the capacity to build around 400 buses each year in our current factory and this could create more than 300 jobs,” said Mr Dunn.

“The Element electric bus will be able to operate for around 22 hours on a single four-hour charge, and are cheaper to maintain and operate than their diesel counterparts.”

“Busways was Custom Denning’s first non-government customer and we have been buying high quality, reliable buses from them since 1958. We’ve been trialling the Element bus in the Penrith area for the last month and we are excited to be receiving our first order in the coming months,” said Busways Managing Director, Byron Rowe.

More than 60 new electric buses will be introduced on bus routes operated on behalf of the NSW Government this year. Electric buses are already operating in Sydney’s inner west and south west, as well as in the Hornsby and Sutherland regions
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

Busways Penrith is getting six Elements, TfNSW funded.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

With the addition of the 6 Elements for Busways and the 5 BYDs for Transit Systems that would take the number of electric buses running in Sydney upto 35
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

I've lost track of the number of Yutongs around but I think it would be little more than 20, assuming you're not counting the ones at Sydney Airport.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

tonyp wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:54 pm I've lost track of the number of Yutongs around but I think it would be little more than 20, assuming you're not counting the ones at Sydney Airport.
I'm talking about electric buses in Transport For NSW revenue service so Interline Transdev and Transit Systems
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