NSW Electric Bus Plan

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
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boronia
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by boronia »

AB&C seems to be sceptical about everything. Nearly every paragraph he writes ends with "it is claimed", "it was said" or some similar disclaimer.
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tonyp
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

Linto63 wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:22 pm The use of quotation marks around the "60 confirmed orders" suggests that AB&C is a bit sceptical. They may be options or contracts with easy break clauses rather than rock solid, put a deposit down orders. A bus appearing on the NSW panel without a physical example having ever been assessed does appear strange. May a prototype exists but has been kept away from prying eyes?
The orders for 60 are mentioned on the Bustech website, maybe that's why it is in quotes:

https://bustechgroup.com.au/bustech-gro ... e-for-nsw/

I believe a number are for Surfside in Queenlsand. Perhaps there is a prototype or perhaps it was approved on the basis of the original version of the ZDi but the nearest example of that to physically inspect is in Adelaide. That single leaf front door on the renders of the mark 2 version would raise some eyebrows in NSW.
boronia wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:17 pm AB&C seems to be sceptical about everything. Nearly every paragraph he writes ends with "it is claimed", "it was said" or some similar disclaimer.
Probably because much of its content is hyped-up media releases!
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Linto63 »

Whole AB&C article is just a cut and paste of the Bustech release with a bit of tinkering.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

Linto63 wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:53 pm Whole AB&C article is just a cut and paste of the Bustech release with a bit of tinkering.
That's what most of their news articles are.

Looking at the NSW Panel list, the approved bus is specifically the ZDi 450 which is the "Mark 2", aka the bus that doesn't exist yet. Adding models to the list must be on the basis of: a) complying design only, actual completed bus not necessary; b) confirmed order/s.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

Some intrepid person has found a ride:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w9fFGo5lXM

Good to see it get a good flat-out working and the acceleration reminds me of a trolleybus (which of course is what is is fundamentally). I guess no bus is going to be as smooth as a tram, but it would be interesting to know how much of that road unevenness finds its way through to the backside. It has the smaller wheels of the typical European low-floor but it's ultimately down to the suspension. The motor certainly does seem quiet compared to a BYD, but anything would be. The plug centre doors create a nice wide opening and the lack of aisle stairs seemed to assist the older bloke on his way to the door, which is what a flat floor is all about. The sheer spaciousness (assisted by the flat floor) and light of the interior is fantastic and tram-like, a long way from Custom's first entry on the government bus stage, the DGT-designed "hot box":

Image

And bus design has got even worse than that over the years. It's a fantastic design break-through in Australia (notably in being passenger-friendly). I hope it proves to be rugged in service.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by moa999 »

Shame they didn't pan the camera at all to show the entire interior.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

moa999 wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:33 pm Shame they didn't pan the camera at all to show the entire interior.
lol that's my gripe with all enthusiast bus videos! But at least we already know what the interior looks like.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Jurassic_Joke »

The Element has door buttons as well to press I see? Wow. Dear me, sure hope they never use manual mode, if recent pre COVID history with the light rail is enough evidence you’ll just get the typical Sydneysider staring at the green button like there’s nothing there lol

But that being said, I don’t actually know any other jurisdiction, even Europe, where they have buses where passengers open the door... it is indeed usually always the driver.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

Jurassic_Joke wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:48 pm The Element has door buttons as well to press I see? Wow. Dear me, sure hope they never use manual mode, if recent pre COVID history with the light rail is enough evidence you’ll just get the typical Sydneysider staring at the green button like there’s nothing there lol

But that being said, I don’t actually know any other jurisdiction, even Europe, where they have buses where passengers open the door... it is indeed usually always the driver.
Door buttons are a standard feature on gliding doors. It's up to the operator whether they're used or not. It's also preferable to use them on an electric bus to minimise loss of air conditioning at each stop.
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boronia
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by boronia »

I recall some early Leopards had a "press button to open door" feature on the centre door, but it was never implemented? It was on the hand rail/stanchion in the step well.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Merc1107 »

tonyp wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:45 pm
moa999 wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:33 pm Shame they didn't pan the camera at all to show the entire interior.
lol that's my gripe with all enthusiast bus videos! But at least we already know what the interior looks like.
One often must be very discreet when filming on public transport as the public are NOT sympathetic to that sort of activity in most instances...

I've heard of touch-to-open doors trialled in Perth on the Rockingham 'RCCTS' buses. It was subsequently disabled, for one reason or another.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Jurassic_Joke »

tonyp wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:41 pm
Jurassic_Joke wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:48 pm The Element has door buttons as well to press I see? Wow. Dear me, sure hope they never use manual mode, if recent pre COVID history with the light rail is enough evidence you’ll just get the typical Sydneysider staring at the green button like there’s nothing there lol

But that being said, I don’t actually know any other jurisdiction, even Europe, where they have buses where passengers open the door... it is indeed usually always the driver.
Door buttons are a standard feature on gliding doors. It's up to the operator whether they're used or not. It's also preferable to use them on an electric bus to minimise loss of air conditioning at each stop.
Agree. Well actually any bus besides electric too.

And we’ve tried it numerous times, and sorry to say, it seems to be Sydneysiders in general have some kind of allergy to pressing door buttons, at the expense of wasting air conditioning in this rather warm city we live in. We’ve seen it with the C sets, the ex G Sets, the OSCars have the functionality built in but guards aren’t allowed to use it apparently, we saw manual doors used with the leased Urbos 2 trams when they came in (from automatic doors in Variotram), lets see, public kicked up such a stink about it they had to go back to automatic doors for when the Urbos 3 came in, and then of course most recently, there’s the story of CSELR when that started. I don’t see it being used on the Element buses.

Kinda sad every other major Australian city can embrace it in one way or another but we just can’t, it’s such a small thing to do with big benefit for preserving aircon and saving power.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

Merc1107 wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:41 pm One often must be very discreet when filming on public transport as the public are NOT sympathetic to that sort of activity in most instances...
The trick is to sit behind everybody if you can. This poor effort of mine (old camera) shows the first NSW Yutong E12 climbing Mt Pleasant near Kiama.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mdUxjLft0s

I did break my first rule by not panning down to show the floor/stairs but you can glimpse the stairs early on. Later I panned from side to side to try to show the gradient. The video does reinforce the gloomy, claustrophobic nature of the high floor saloon in low-entry buses, compared to the low-floor Element.

Although a little better than the BYDs, the Yutong is really short on interior space and thus seating and standing capacity. The Chinese don't have the art of getting the most out of limited space, rather like Asian cars were (and most still are) for years more cramped inside than European and Australian equivalents. On this ride on the Yutong, I was also sitting on a seat that was falling apart, screws dropping out and the squab half afloat. The offerings on the electric market are not a level field, but many just look at the upfront price. Keolis in Netherlands recently saved a bit of money buying about 250 BYDs. Now, several months later, they have a team from the manufacturer in permanent residence over from China working on and having difficulty resolving issues with range, heating and air conditioning. You get what you pay for.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

Joshua Power took and posted these images of 6520 on an evening 309 service on 30 March. I don't know if he's on this forum but I hope it's OK to take the liberty of linking these two excellent photos that show the interior. Nice to finally see a modern citybus interior in Australia. This is way ahead of anything else in this type of bus in Australia, except the few Scania N series buses and Irisbus and, being electric, it's way ahead of those both in technology and utility (doesn't lose a couple of seats at the back because of an engine tower). European citybus design took its cues from modern low-floor tram design - about 25 years ago. It also leaves behind all other electric bus designs currently on the market here (the Bustech is so far an unknown).

Image
(Source: https://scontent.fsyd4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/ ... e=608909E8)

Image
(Source: https://scontent.fsyd4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/ ... e=608A996B)
Last edited by tonyp on Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by jpp42 »

Those rear-facing seats in the back could be favoured by groups of young people not keen on the driver having a good view of what they're up to...
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

jpp42 wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:48 am Those rear-facing seats in the back could be favoured by groups of young people not keen on the driver having a good view of what they're up to...
Or just families or groups of friends generally, similar to such seats in trams in Sydney.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Merc1107 »

Rear facing seats are already a common feature on low-entry (or low floor, e.g. 3002 in Perth) artics. They've never been a source of trouble in my experience. But, many pax prefer to face the direction of travel, so they are thankfully not too common.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

tonyp wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:54 am Joshua Power took and posted these images of 6520 on an evening 309 service on 30 March. I don't know if he's on this forum but I hope it's OK to take the liberty of linking these two excellent photos that show the interior. Nice to finally see a modern citybus interior in Australia. This is way ahead of anything else in this type of bus in Australia, except the few Scania N series buses and, being electric, it's way ahead of those both in technology and utility (doesn't lose a couple of seats at the back because of an engine tower). European citybus design took its cues from modern low-floor tram design - about 25 years ago. It also leaves behind all other electric bus designs currently on the market here (the Bustech is so far an unknown).
I can see that the aisle way is flat but why are the rear seats risien doesn't the risen seats at the rear defeat the full low floor tag
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by boronia »

There still needs to somewhere to put the motor, control gear, air conditioning, etc.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

Low floor is taken to refer to the gangway only. The gangway is stepless. Seats being mounted on plinths doesn't annul the definition. There are some tram models that have totally stepless floors where the seats also are mounted on the floor (like the Sydney CAFs). I guess they can be referred to as stepless trams.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

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tonyp
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

Cazza wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:09 pm https://youtu.be/wOGZdfgs5B4
It would be interesting to know what Mr OCB thought of this bus compared to all the other experiences of electric buses he has had around the traps.

The sense of space and light in the rear saloon is just overwhelming after years of those gloomy, cramped caves. The musical chime on the stop call is something refreshingly new. I wonder whether it will coincide with a stop announcement once the PID is set up? As far as I can see there is a PID down the front facing up the aisle and a lateral one above the centre door(?). The bus has a decent horn too, not like that silly little pseudo tram chime on the Yutong.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Merc1107 »

tonyp wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:36 pm The musical chime on the stop call is something refreshingly new. I wonder whether it will coincide with a stop announcement once the PID is set up?
That, and the morbid-sounding "doors closing" announcement would drive me bonkers just as a passenger - let alone as a driver having to endure it for 6-9hrs!

Leave the cute chimes to the Korean appliance makers and their washing machines, I say. A real bell, or a buzzer are more than sufficient.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by 1whoknows »

Two new Volgren BYD electrics in TfNSW livery were sighted by a colleague at a launch in Melbourne for Transdev yesterday.
Presumably on their way north soon.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

Merc1107 wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:16 am That, and the morbid-sounding "doors closing" announcement would drive me bonkers just as a passenger - let alone as a driver having to endure it for 6-9hrs!

Leave the cute chimes to the Korean appliance makers and their washing machines, I say. A real bell, or a buzzer are more than sufficient.
I guess for a driver, yes. I don't mind them and I assume they're intended to tie in with the PID and a next stop announcement that hasn't been set up in these demonstrators.
1whoknows wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:47 am Two new Volgren BYD electrics in TfNSW livery were sighted by a colleague at a launch in Melbourne for Transdev yesterday.
Presumably on their way north soon.
I wonder who they're for? I wish the Volvo models for Perth would hurry up and come along. That would be the best one to marry with Volgren.

I wonder how these interstate deliveries of electric buses are made - whether they have some way of charging en route or whether they're delivered on a truck? In Europe you sometimes see the amazing sight of a whole trainload of trolleybuses being delivered.

Edit: Well my question was answered immediately when I opened up my messages! This one is going to Queensland, I assume Brisbane:

167427852_10158106742479142_8329147821080235801_n.jpg

Another edit - I shouldn't do my posts until I open all my mail! Looks like there four new Volgrens from Dandenong, two for NSW, two for Queensland. All Transdev, so the NSW ones would be going to Transdev Sydney.
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