STA Observations 2020

[tonyp]

Wouldn't it be a good time to start running SE buses through Kingsford interchange and put the new stop in at the corner of Avoca and High? It would provide at least some kind of safety valve using the trams to take some pressure off the crowding.

Encouraging people to drive is completely daft. That will have only one outcome - an immobile one. Unfortunately buses will be caught up in that.

[Linto63]

Encouraging people to drive is completely daft.

And what is the alternative? One of the biggest environments for the transmission of Covid-19 in those countries where it has killed thousands has been on public transport. So quite rightly, the government is asking public transport only be used if people have no other alternative.

[J_Busworth]

I finally noticed some drivers following the social distancing guidelines this morning on 374/X74 services. Two drivers in a row explained to passengers that they were above social distancing capacity and requested they wait for the following service - passengers complied without an issue. School kids were encouraged to board anyway, but stand clear of other passengers. All very civilised and worked well with this lot, a later 374 clearing everyone out.

[tonyp]

An interesting petition I came across from a couple of years back with some insight into services to Bondi Beach and an outside-the-square alternative:

https://www.change.org/p/add-a-bus-serv ... EXrORvSU9E

It sounds like the buses aren't up to the job and the government won't reintroduce trams or a train extension so it's between a rock and a hard place. Apparently an on-demand service has been introduced but, in the experience of anybody using the corridor, would a proper bus route be a viable alternative to spread the load?

[boronia]

While the ferry might be "only 10 minutes from Rose bay to CQ", how often would that service run if it was provided?

50 minutes from Bondi to the CBD?. Why aren't these people catching the train from BJI if they are concerned with travel times? If people want to be obstinate and don't want to change modes, they would probably have the same attitude to changing to a ferry.

[Tim Williams]

How difficult/expensive would it be to extend the railway line from Bondi Jcn to the beach?? Train would seem to be best option - pity the line wan't built all the way to the beach in the first place!

[Tim Williams]

I meant to type "Pity the line wasn't built all the way to the beach, in the first place!"

[J_Busworth]

How difficult/expensive would it be to extend the railway line from Bondi Jcn to the beach?? Train would seem to be best option - pity the line wan't built all the way to the beach in the first place!

Bob Carr considered it, but there was so much community opposition it never happened.

[Campbelltown busboy]

How difficult/expensive would it be to extend the railway line from Bondi Jcn to the beach?? Train would seem to be best option - pity the line wan't built all the way to the beach in the first place!

I read somewhere that the ESR line was suppose to run to Kingsford but construction stopped at Bondi Junction. Nobody knows actually knows where the end of the eastern suburbs line in Bradfield's 1920s Sydney railway plan would of been

[hornetfig]

An interesting petition I came across from a couple of years back with some insight into services to Bondi Beach and an outside-the-square alternative:

Apparently an on-demand service has been introduced but, in the experience of anybody using the corridor, would a proper bus route be a viable alternative to spread the load?

The 321 covered this route, via Rose Bay town centre, prior to 2002. Better Buses East reorganised the network to be more focused on delivering people to Bondi Junction and Edgecliff for interchange.

50 minutes from Bondi to the CBD?. Why aren't these people catching the train from BJI if they are concerned with travel times? If people want to be obstinate and don't want to change modes, they would probably have the same attitude to changing to a ferry.

It still takes 50 minutes. Bondi Beach - Bondi Junction station is around 35 minutes in peak.

[Cazza]

I'm sorry, but where are you pulling that 35 min figure from? It's 20-25 mins at most from Bondi Beach to BJI.

One solution which should definitely be looked at is running the 323 during the off-peak and weekends. This way, people living in the Double Bay/Rose Bay areas have direct service to the beach. Living so close (like we are talking less than 5km in some areas) to such a high daytime and weekend patronage generator but not having a direct service is pretty poor. Their best bet is taking a bus to Edgecliff or BJI and the 333 to the beach, turning a 10 min trip into a 30+ min trip.

[boronia]

How difficult/expensive would it be to extend the railway line from Bondi Jcn to the beach?? Train would seem to be best option - pity the line wan't built all the way to the beach in the first place!

Bob Carr considered it, but there was so much community opposition it never happened.

That plan had the terminus right at Bondi Beach south. I think it was also intended to be a single track with no intermediate stops.

It might have got more local support if it terminated around Six Ways or Seven Ways. The short walk to the beach would have been good for local businesses and offered future benfits from an extension northwards. IIRC, one of Bradfield's plans had such a line which looped back through Rose Bay.

[In Transit]

recruiter=30854296&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_term=share_petition&utm_content=nafta_share_post_title_en_3%3Areal_control&fbclid=IwAR1X2Kjd0b3mIY1VGHzCQIT_AoRipkbRqFswp474afnMrO4kjEXrORvSU9E

It sounds like the buses aren't up to the job and the government won't reintroduce trams or a train extension so it's between a rock and a hard place. Apparently an on-demand service has been introduced but, in the experience of anybody using the corridor, would a proper bus route be a viable alternative to spread the load?
[/quote]

It’s not clear exactly when that petition was launched, but it roughly coincides with two things - a concerted political campaign around public transport in the eastern suburbs to help Labor win Coogee in the next election (which was successful, even though the “independent” PT campaign included multiple misleading statements... but then again, its politics) and the changes to the Bondi services which significantly increased capacity and frequency to Bondi, especially at the times it is needed.

That’s not to say the beach services couldn’t be better designed or operated, but I think its a complete furphy to suggest “buses aren’t up to the job”. Things have moved on a lot since STA ludicrously told Waverley Council buses were operating at maximum capacity on Bondi Road a few years ago.

Some of the nonsense in that petition - such as completely ignoring there is already a fast connection to the City in the form of a train - if speed is your priority, why would you stay on the bus, any bus, all the way to the City? The writer of the petition clearly has no understanding that on summer weekdays and weekends for much of the year the Rose Bay/Watson Bay ferry is completely full - there is no capacity for extra passengers. You could always buy more ferries - but they are more expensive to buy and operate than buses, and during those school holiday and weekend periods there is more than enough spare capacity in the existing rail and bus fleet, so why would you buy more ferries for only part of the year?

Of course, the buses could be significantly improved in speed, reliability, efficiency and capacity if a bus lane was opened down Bondi Road - but local businesses on Bondi Rd have managed to keep that blocked for years.

This isn’t “outside the square” thinking - its not exactly a novel idea, and whilst a local bus link between Bondi and Rose Bay has some merit in my opinion, its not a viable substitute for the trunk capacity of the 333.

Finally, the on demand solution was tried twice between Rose Bay and Bondi. Neither version lasted - as was completely foreseeable. Like the petition - a thought bubble that was never going to be a success, only that one was actually implemented so it could be demonstrated to be a bad idea....

[tonyp]

From the dates of comments on it, the petition was three years ago and the reported outcome of an on-demand service was two years ago. My post was more in the nature of a question rather than a statement. It seemed an interesting lateral suggestion and I was interested to hear the opinion of those familiar with the area and the service in relation to whether it was a viable solution or not. These new fast ferries do offer a vey attractive alternative (as they have to Manly for over 50 years) and they have been particularly successful on the eastern suburbs services where combined patronage is now higher than that of the Many ferry, which is a remarkable achievement. A catchment extending to Bondi Beach does seem too far-fetched to me, when the same journey time, as you say, would see you at the ESR at Bondi Junction. Thanks everybody for the updates anyway.

All-door boarding and bus lanes would be good for the 333, but it looks like being 30 years off on both counts. Extension of the rail to Bondi Beach might stack up one day in the future.

[hornetfig]

I'm sorry, but where are you pulling that 35 min figure from? It's 20-25 mins at most from Bondi Beach to BJI.

I did the North Bondi-Bondi Junction-city commute for years on the 389. c.2010 I could generally rely on, if I got an X89 by 7:57 of making the 8:28 train. At Seven Ways maybe as late at 8:02 because right on 8:00am up to 5 buses would clump so the pick-up times were a lot less.

[J_Busworth]

State Transit currently has a Yutong ZK6131HGE, rego XQ13FW, based out of Waverley for a two week trial.

It has been duplicating other trips and as such is not trackable. Has been sighted mainly doing 333 short-workings between North Bondi and Bondi Junction and 379s between North Bondi and Bronte. The initial feedback from drivers appears to be promising

[tonyp]

State Transit currently has a Yutong ZK6131HGE, rego XQ13FW, based out of Waverley for a two week trial.

It has been duplicating other trips and as such is not trackable. Has been sighted mainly doing 333 short-workings between North Bondi and Bondi Junction and 379s between North Bondi and Bronte. The initial feedback from drivers appears to be promising

They're good on hills, restricted in capacity, single-leaf centre door and high floor (both could be otherwise if they weren't poorly specified) and Chinese "quality". Drivers would like them. Pedestrians won't. I hope NSW gives the Bustech/Precision/Ebusco model a trial when it eventually appears - much more promising and we shouldn't be buying Chinese now anyway.

[Campbelltown busboy]

State Transit currently has a Yutong ZK6131HGE, rego XQ13FW, based out of Waverley for a two week trial.

It has been duplicating other trips and as such is not trackable. Has been sighted mainly doing 333 short-workings between North Bondi and Bondi Junction and 379s between North Bondi and Bronte. The initial feedback from drivers appears to be promising

Bus 400 reported this exact same bus running though the Camden area for Busabout about 2 weeks ago in the private observations thread
viewtopic.php?p=1063316#p1063316

When I posted a screenshot of that thread entry on the Busabout past and present Facebook group a member commented that he saw that the bus didn't have opal readers fitted meaning that it's only for driver familiarisation training and mechanic electric power unit maintenance training

[tonyp]

They would be fitted with Opal readers for Sydney operation.

[J_Busworth]

They would be fitted with Opal readers for Sydney operation.

Have confirmed they do not have Opal readers fitted at this stage.

They're good on hills, restricted in capacity, single-leaf centre door and high floor (both could be otherwise if they weren't poorly specified) and Chinese "quality". Drivers would like them. Pedestrians won't. I hope NSW gives the Bustech/Precision/Ebusco model a trial when it eventually appears - much more promising and we shouldn't be buying Chinese now anyway.

We really should be waiting to focus on the Ebusco and Denning models. The new higher quality electrics being produced by Daimler would also be much better than Chinese stuff too, but I don't think they have narrowed it and made a LHD model yet.

Fully flat floor and two-three double leaf doors, with a 400km range is what Merc have achieved with their eCitaro. Even better, no lithium batteries either. I think Denning is going down a similar route too.

[tonyp]

So how are they running them in Sydney? Free rides with no tap-ons?

I hope they do wait for these other models to come along and don't place an order for Chinese buses or chassis. That would be a big mistake.

[Campbelltown busboy]

They would be fitted with Opal readers for Sydney operation.

The question would be is Yutong allowing operators to use the demonstrator on revenue runs or is it only on staff only duties

[boronia]

They would be fitted with Opal readers for Sydney operation.

The question would be is Yutong allowing operators to use the demonstrator on revenue runs or is it only on staff only duties

Lots of other demonstrators have been used in revenue service; rather pointless if they can't carry passengers under normal operating conditions..

[Campbelltown busboy]

Lots of other demonstrators have been used in revenue service; rather pointless if they can't carry passengers under normal operating conditions..

Can Transport For NSW put their green sit here physical distancing stickers on the seats of a demonstrator without permission off the manufacturer of the bus witch in this case the owner of the demonstrator is Yutong. What is the governments rules when it comes to buses with no green physical distancing stickers on the seats operating on revenue services

[Daniel]

Seriously......