New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

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Linto63
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by Linto63 »

stupid_girl wrote: Page 127 mentioned that "About 50% of Inner West bus routes will terminate after stopping at the Rawson Place light rail stop and in Campbell Street north of Belmore Park".
Already done, in 2015 when George Street was closed.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by Stu »

^ Also route 422 in May 2018 and route 413 in Oct 2020. I wouldn't be surprised if route 426 was truncated to Central as well as route 440 if it was ever to be split.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by moa999 »

Ron Hoenig MP (Labor), Member for Heffron has this on his FB page.

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Doesn't seem to realise that the reorganisation is just a proposal. Probably hasn't realised that there is a light rail line running through much of his electorate.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by Merc1107 »

Some of those prophets of doom respond well to (polite!) private correction from concerned citizens.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by Swift »

Awww how cute. Labor playing viable alternative.
Not when they've become wrapped up in sjw issues and become more involved with the greens.
Doesn't help that they are loathe to replace Jodi McKay with a man while there's a female premier in power.
Got to tow the feminist line.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by mubd »

Too bad, they've already withdrawn that O405...
Eastgardens to Kingsford is a 1-2 section fare.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by boronia »

Merc1107 wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 12:04 pm Some of those prophets of doom respond well to (polite!) private correction from concerned citizens.
The usual barrage of complaints from people who people who haven't to read past "routes to be cut".
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by buzzkill »

boronia wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 9:02 pm
Merc1107 wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 12:04 pm Some of those prophets of doom respond well to (polite!) private correction from concerned citizens.
The usual barrage of complaints from people who people who haven't to read past "routes to be cut".
I live in the area and have received letters from two opposition State MPs. The letters only talked about "cuts". They did not mention increased express buses. They did not mention increased frequency of many routes like 313, 370, 392 or 396. They also did not mention the high-frequency new routes, like 390x or 350.

I found it disturbingly misleading - particularly when considering it was sent in their capacity as the State MP, using taxpayer funds. You would think they would have to present a more factual picture of the revised plan.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by boronia »

You don't really expect an opposition MP to be praising a government initiative?
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by Ray »

Or tell the truth? Or not engage in rank opportunism, having done nothing themselves in government?
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by Swift »

They were hopeless as a government and they have shown nothing has changed in the decade since.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

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Not is not an unexpected result.
Living in the Shire.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by Swift »

I bet a lot of the hysteria is misinformed. They just don't like wholesale changes. Probably some individuals of influence are adversely affected somewhat and scream the loudest.
I'm so happy just knowing that anti LR group in Surry Hills led by that woman with the pretentious sounding hyphenated surname, was disregarded in the end.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by mubd »

I do wish they'd make the interchanges easier on the bus network. Changing from buses at Taylor Square towards Randwick is going to be a right pain in the arse. Same goes for Bunnerong Road services heading citybound with at least two crossings required.

The Bunnerong Road example, I brought up in LR submissions and was knocked back because the five people in Daceyville who can't walk to Kingsford interchange will be inconvenienced if the buses were sent to Kingsford interchange via Botany Street.
Eastgardens to Kingsford is a 1-2 section fare.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by mandonov »

mubd wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:46 pm I do wish they'd make the interchanges easier on the bus network. Changing from buses at Taylor Square towards Randwick is going to be a right pain in the arse. Same goes for Bunnerong Road services heading citybound with at least two crossings required.

The Bunnerong Road example, I brought up in LR submissions and was knocked back because the five people in Daceyville who can't walk to Kingsford interchange will be inconvenienced if the buses were sent to Kingsford interchange via Botany Street.
If they actually were interested in solutions then Sturt Street could be widened slightly/parking banned and the intersection with Bunnerong improved to have buses go straight into and out of the interchange.

It can’t be any slower either as the northbound 392 currently has to wait to turn right then immediately wait again before merging onto Anzac which is a major cause of delays. I can see on Nexthere right now a 392 about to take 4 minutes to get from Seargent Larkin Cr to Kingsford Nineways Stand C with a 3 minute delay just from this section. Passengers could be on the platform in that time if they just went via Sturt.

Edit: Scratch that. I watched the bus approach and it ended up taking 6 minutes to get between the stops and the intersection delayed the service by 5 minutes.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by boronia »

mubd wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:46 pm I do wish they'd make the interchanges easier on the bus network. Changing from buses at Taylor Square towards Randwick is going to be a right pain in the arse.
Please clarify. Changing from what buses?
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by rogf24 »

The good thing is at least, they seemed to have picked up some useful feedback from all the rubbish, like the Taylor Square thing.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by hornetfig »

mandonov wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:22 pmIt can’t be any slower either as the northbound 392 currently has to wait to turn right then immediately wait again before merging onto Anzac which is a major cause of delays. I can see on Nexthere right now a 392 about to take 4 minutes to get from Seargent Larkin Cr to Kingsford Nineways Stand C with a 3 minute delay just from this section. Passengers could be on the platform in that time if they just went via Sturt.

Edit: Scratch that. I watched the bus approach and it ended up taking 6 minutes to get between the stops and the intersection delayed the service by 5 minutes.
Yep, both Gardeners Rd-Anzac Pde/Rainbow St and Bunnerong Rd-Anzac Pde/Rainbow St are avoid at all costs movements for private vehicles now. They have tiny capacity compared to the pre-light rail throughput at the intersections.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by mubd »

boronia wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:54 pm
mubd wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:46 pm I do wish they'd make the interchanges easier on the bus network. Changing from buses at Taylor Square towards Randwick is going to be a right pain in the arse.
Please clarify. Changing from what buses?
The only bus service from Taylor Square passing the light rail corridor (the 396).

If you want to get to Randwick from Taylor Square or Oxford Street, you will need to get the 396, get off at Sydney Boys/Girls High, walk 200 metres south to the traffic lights, cross the light rail and bus roadway and then another 200 metres to the light rail stop. That's 5 minutes and 400 metres of walking for what should be an easy transfer.

The 392 (which I have an interest in, because it's my main city bus service) is half baked and the way it's set up really makes the interchange unpleasant. I've ridden the bus to the city a few times on the way to work over the past two weeks, and I definitely wanted to try the light rail...but the lack of interchange has put me off every single time. Interchanging at Kingsford is obviously very unpleasant with the minimum three crossings to get to the light rail stop. The best interchange at the moment is at ES Marks or Kensington (ES Marks is the best IMO, easy to cross two narrow lanes and the track), but the new network has the 392 turning at Todman Ave, meaning you have to wait at two crossings to interchange.

Bunnerong Road buses should be diverted up Botany Street rather than persisting with that right turn onto the Nine Ways and dumping passengers in the slip lane. Two benefits would come from this - firstly, passengers can actually use the Kingsford Juniors cross platform interchange...and second, it would eliminate that godforesaken right turn into the Nine Ways for buses.

In fact, I'd argue that it would be a great idea to have the Bunnerong Road leg of the Nine Ways closed off to all traffic is diverted down Botany Street. It would simplify the intersection (getting rid of two heavily trafficked closely spaced intersections), and Anzac Parade south of the Nine Ways is wide enough that it should be able to cope with the traffic with a few minor modifications which won't impact surrounding properties.
Eastgardens to Kingsford is a 1-2 section fare.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by buzzkill »

Ray wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:41 pm Or tell the truth? Or not engage in rank opportunism, having done nothing themselves in government?
Exactly. They used taxpayer funds to send the material. The least they could do is to link to the actual information on the cuts, incl. network map and route changes, to inform the taxpayers.

The plan seems to have a few positives, like more express buses, some useful new high frequency routes like 350 or 390x, and increases in frequency for many routes like 370 or 392. These would surely benefit many local residents, yet the MP who is paid to represent them has chosen to hide this from them.

It's a shame, in my opinion.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by boronia »

mubd wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:29 pm
The 392 (which I have an interest in, because it's my main city bus service) is half baked and the way it's set up really makes the interchange unpleasant. I've ridden the bus to the city a few times on the way to work over the past two weeks, and I definitely wanted to try the light rail...but the lack of interchange has put me off every single time. Interchanging at Kingsford is obviously very unpleasant with the minimum three crossings to get to the light rail stop. The best interchange at the moment is at ES Marks or Kensington (ES Marks is the best IMO, easy to cross two narrow lanes and the track), but the new network has the 392 turning at Todman Ave, meaning you have to wait at two crossings to interchange.
The UNSW stop seems a convenient interchange?
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by J_Busworth »

buzzkill wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:59 pm
Exactly. They used taxpayer funds to send the material. The least they could do is to link to the actual information on the cuts, incl. network map and route changes, to inform the taxpayers.

The plan seems to have a few positives, like more express buses, some useful new high frequency routes like 350 or 390x, and increases in frequency for many routes like 370 or 392. These would surely benefit many local residents, yet the MP who is paid to represent them has chosen to hide this from them.

It's a shame, in my opinion.
The effort to actually provide proper information has been quite poor. The 350/390X combination will deliver two really effective high frequency cross regional services and I don’t think the concept has been sold well enough.

As noted in the article, Taylor Square access is a sticking point. For those coming from Randwick Light Rail the easiest option is a 370 is Kensington and then changing for the 396, whilst for those in Coogee the easiest option is a 350 to Bondi Junction and then a 333. Both option whilst on paper not particularly slower than the current set up, are unattractive due to the interchange required.

The other big issue that I’ve noticed people in my area talking about is how the new network disincentivises people from Coogee from connecting with the Light Rail in Randwick. In addition to the poor interchange in Randwick. service out of Coogee to Randwick Junction appears to have quite a significant frequency cut from pre light rail. Currently off peak along the Carr Street corridor there are 12 buses an hour, that was 16 prior to the M50 being cut. Under the new proposal, it appears there will only be 6 buses an hour. Regardless of whether or not 6 buses an hour actually reflects the demand on the corridor, the service cut will make the overall proposition of using public transport less attractive.

I’d say a route from Randwick to Taylor Square of some description is now shaping up to be the mostly likely outcome of the feedback. Something like a 374 via Taylor Square to Circular Quay and retaining the 372 from Coogee to Railway Square via Cleveland Street would go a way to addressing all those concerns
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by boronia »

I remember back in 2000 with Better Buses East, they wanted to reroute the 339 through Taylor Square, but the locals objected to it enough to get it canned.

Seems people are opposed to change, rather than the actual changes.
Last edited by boronia on Sun Jun 06, 2021 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by grog »

But do we know what the actual frequency of routes will be? Isn’t frequent defined as at least every 10 minutes all day? There is nothing stopping this from being more frequent, unless the actual frequency is listed somewhere that I have missed.
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