New Sydney and Outer Metro bus contracts (as from 2020)

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Linto63
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 20

Post by Linto63 »

The best operator in the world wouldn't have been unable to offset the lessening of demand caused by the rise in car ownership. Population growth in the inner suburbs has more than been matched by that in outer Sydney. Many of the areas that the privates operate in today was farmland 40 years ago. The arrival of the Inner West Light Rail coincided with a mass increase in population density as high rises were built along its route, really it couldn't not work.
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 20

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

Linto63 wrote:The best operator in the world wouldn't have been unable to offset the lessening of demand caused by the rise in car ownership. Population growth in the inner suburbs has more than been matched by that in outer Sydney. Many of the areas that the privates operate in today was farmland 40 years ago. The arrival of the Inner West Light Rail coincided with a mass increase in population density as high rises were built along its route, really it couldn't not work.
Private operators where still under the DMT licensing rules where a bus was licensed to a seperate route 40 years ago
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

Post by boronia »

There was mention in a newspaper yesterday that the process for contracting these services would be delayed, with some possibly not progressing until next year.
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

Post by J_Busworth »

boronia wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:39 pm There was mention in a newspaper yesterday that the process for contracting these services would be delayed, with some possibly not progressing until next year.
It’s not quite new news or the “exclusive” they made it out to be. The timeline for the contracting was released to drivers and industry on 14 May. I’m honestly surprised it’s taken then this long to report on the information - must have been a slow news day.

Market sounding suggested that the regions needed to be staggered because they couldn’t cope with three tenders simultaneously. So the three STA regions will have their tenders staggered.

Region 8 - October 2021
Region 7 - December 2021
Region 9 - April 2022
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

Post by marcnut1996 »

Region 8 opens for tender.
https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/node/11049
EDIT: updated url 26/6/2020
Tenders for Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore bus services now open

The competitive tender process for operating Region 8 bus services on Sydney’s Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore opened today.

The tender is an opportunity for leading transport operators from both Australia and overseas to demonstrate how they will deliver improved services to customers on behalf of the NSW Government.

“We’re looking for an operator to deliver new and innovative services for our customers on the North Shore and Northern Beaches. This will mean more frequent and convenient services throughout the day, including turn-up-and-go and On Demand routes,” said Elizabeth Mildwater, Deputy Secretary - Greater Sydney at Transport for NSW.

“We’re also looking for operators to show us how they can help the Government transition to zero emission buses, and improve real-time information that will help customers to better plan their journeys and connect with other transport modes.”

The start of the competitive tender process in Region 8 follows several months of market sounding in late 2019 and earlier this year. Tenders will close on 30 September 2020 with the transition to the new operator expected during the final quarter of 2021.

As part of the franchising process, the NSW Government will maintain control of routes, fares, assets such as buses and the existing depots at North Sydney, Brookvale and Mona Vale.

“All operational staff, including bus drivers and maintenance staff, will have the opportunity to transfer to the new operator with a two-year job guarantee on the same award terms and conditions said Ms Mildwater.

“Every effort will be made to find roles for non-operational award employees before services change hands to the new operator, either with the new operator or within the public sector.”

Prospective tenderers can register to participant in the tender for Region 8 by going to the NSW Government’s eTenders website.

The competitive tender process for the two other regions currently operated by State Transit, Region 7 in Sydney’s north and Region 9 in Sydney’s east, are currently planned to open in August and November respectively.
Last edited by marcnut1996 on Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

The tender opening for regions 7 and 8 explains why the RTBU have started running their anti privatisation ads on the radio
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

Post by Fleet Lists »

Only region 8 at this stage
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gilberations
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

Post by gilberations »

I fully expect CDC will bid for Region 8 and be able to boost their region 4 operating model, they’re both similar sized regions with a similar number of complex routes, not to mention they could argue that they could integrate their Forest depots into the mix and run a current forest route followed by a current STA route if needed, if that makes sense.

They also have the control room capabilities that other companies can only dream of with a centralized control centre for all their depots, and it does work.
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

gilberations wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:34 pm I fully expect CDC will bid for Region 8 and be able to boost their region 4 operating model, they’re both similar sized regions with a similar number of complex routes, not to mention they could argue that they could integrate their Forest depots into the mix and run a current forest route followed by a current STA route if needed, if that makes sense.

They also have the control room capabilities that other companies can only dream of with a centralized control centre for all their depots, and it does work.
Your integration idea might work if CDC can win the tender for region 8 but the idea also has one downside witch is Forrest operates in region 14
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

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Forest IS CDC now.
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

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Buses are registered to a district by Transport for NSW so it is not as easy as all that to have a bus operate trips in multiple regions.
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gilberations
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

Post by gilberations »

I’m sure with regions all bordering on each other it wouldn’t be that difficult to have it work out as one mega region, which is the ultimate goal anyway isn’t it? I seem to remember somewhere that the goal of the regions was to make them larger and fewer
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

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The original plan was to consolidate the 15 regions into 8, but was later binned. While there may be some synergy savings generated by operating two adjoining regions, they will be on different contractual terms and as demonstrated with region 6, TfNSW appear to be against the idea of having routes operated by more than one operator.
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

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This is a valid point, but it would be one operator
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

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Linto63 wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:12 am The original plan was to consolidate the 15 regions into 8, but was later binned. While there may be some synergy savings generated by operating two adjoining regions, they will be on different contractual terms and as demonstrated with region 6, TfNSW appear to be against the idea of having routes operated by more than one operator.
it's 14 regions since region 11 got absorbed into region 10 back in 2009. They could absorb more regions into eachother.

Let's see what happens in the future between Transport For NSW and Mainbar Bundeena Bus Service when it comes to it's 989 subcontract deal within the current region 10 contract
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

Post by J_Busworth »

Operators of adjoining regions need to be allowed to operate services across both regions as if they were one. That is what allows for improvements to services, reduces costs from dead running and allows for more innovative delivery.

STA post-optimisation is the gold standard on a Sydney level of how this should work. If CDC has 4 and 7, well then a bus should be able to run routes in both regions. Lots of the R7 routes out of Parramatta surely would be better off operating out of Northmead than Ryde. Lots of R6 routes would be better off out of Port Botany than Tempe, if TSA was to get Region 9.
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Linto63
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

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Campbelltown busboy wrote: Let's see what happens in the future between Transport For NSW and Mainbar Bundeena Bus Service when it comes to it's 989 subcontract deal within the current region 10 contract.
IIRC, the region 10 contract is held directly by Transdev, who sub-contract Mainbar-Bundeena BS rather than running themselves, an arrangement that may well continue even if the operator were to change.

It's reasonable to assume that all of the usual suspects will all have considered bidding. But without knowing what the tender document specifies and who is going to propose what, at this point everything is speculation.
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

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J_Busworth wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:25 amIf CDC has 4 and 7, well then a bus should be able to run routes in both regions. Lots of the R7 routes out of Parramatta surely would be better off operating out of Northmead than Ryde. Lots of R6 routes would be better off out of Port Botany than Tempe, if TSA was to get Region 9.
The argument might be that it discourages/disadvantages other potential bidders. Transport and Govt want competitive bidding.
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

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Fleet Lists wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:23 pm Buses are registered to a district by Transport for NSW so it is not as easy as all that to have a bus operate trips in multiple regions.
Just curious. Does Transdev has a clear separation of region 10 and 13 bus operations?
https://www.transdevnsw.com.au/services ... southwest/
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

Post by gilberations »

Aurora wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:18 pm The argument might be that it discourages/disadvantages other potential bidders. Transport and Govt want competitive bidding.
Using that logic, if I were the bidder, I’d argue that by gaining an extra contract region or two would increase efficiency and decrease running costs, and as such allow the original contract to be renegotiated and as such begin afresh.
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

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stupid_girl wrote: Just curious. Does Transdev has a clear separation of region 10 and 13 bus operations?
They would be separate contracts with Transdev required to report to TfNSW on each individually. The TfNSW owned assets, buses, depots etc would be assigned to a particular region, although there may be provision to move them as needs require as happened recently when Transit Systems transferred some region 6 artics to region 3.
gilberations wrote: Using that logic, if I were the bidder, I’d argue that by gaining an extra contract region or two would increase efficiency and decrease running costs, and as such allow the original contract to be renegotiated and as such begin afresh.
If the operators of adjoining regions are permitted to leverage off the savings they can make by utilising assets not available to others, they may have such an advantage that others may deem it not worthwhile bidding, potentially leading to price gouging. It's all meant to be secret, but word does tend to get around the industry if a bidder loses interest. It will depend on how much of a level playing field TfNSW wants to create.
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

J_Busworth wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:25 am Operators of adjoining regions need to be allowed to operate services across both regions as if they were one. That is what allows for improvements to services, reduces costs from dead running and allows for more innovative delivery.

STA post-optimisation is the gold standard on a Sydney level of how this should work. If CDC has 4 and 7, well then a bus should be able to run routes in both regions. Lots of the R7 routes out of Parramatta surely would be better off operating out of Northmead than Ryde. Lots of R6 routes would be better off out of Port Botany than Tempe, if TSA was to get Region 9.
All that sounds like your pro STA optimisation witch is a path Transport For NSW don't want to head down so they do the tendering thing to make it harder for operators to win contracts when it comes two your adjacent region depot route work idea
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

Post by Stu »

Linto63 wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:36 pm They would be separate contracts with Transdev required to report to TfNSW on each individually. The TfNSW owned assets, buses, depots etc would be assigned to a particular region, although there may be provision to move them as needs require as happened recently when Transit Systems transferred some region 6 artics to region
There needs to be a business case based on operational requirements presented to TfNSW in the case of having buses assigned in one particular region of an operator transferred to another region under control of the same operator. This occurred with Transit Systems on two occasions. The first occasion was for some of the ex STA Volvo B12's in Region 3 to be in short term loan to Region 6 in late 2018 and early 2019. The second occasion was earlier this year when a swap occurred. Volvo B12 artics from Region 6 to Region 3 in exchange for Volvo B12 rigid buses from Region 3 to Region 6.
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

Post by iamthouth »

Any updates on this? Has there been any tenders released or due yet?
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