Comparing Sydney and London

[mandonov]

Lack of all door boarding is the real kicker.

[rogf24]

I've seen occasions on the B-Line where there was no marshall at Wynyard and the driver opened the centre door to allow people to get on.

[Merc1107]

Its last Leylands entered service in 1985, nearly a decade after the other government operators had placed the last of theirs in service.

Given those were B21s, they were probably more American than they were British, what with the Detroit power-plant and Allison transmission. They had the same Boltons bodywork as the O305s being delivered at the time, but only lasted until 1990 in service, whereas the O305s and the Renaults delivered around then lasted well into the 2000s.

With buses, I doubt it matters what we were buying, and from who at the time, considering their operational layouts in terms of doors, seating and standing room were all relatively equivalent.

[ajw373]

it doesn't take 45 seconds to load or unload 32 passengers especially in london a cash free bus network your sadly wrong on that especially with some deckers have 2/3 doors.

What high capacity single deckers exist anyway? i can't think of a single bus type that fits that job role?

I've got news and it is all bad. Having live in London for 4 years, it can take a long time to load and unload a double decker. I lived on Bayswater Road which was serviced by the 94 and 390 and on Oxford Street in particular where many people got on and off it took for every. The big issue was the location of the stairs. Until all upstairs passengers got off only 5 or so people could board and that is assuming there weren't passengers standing at the base of the stairs. The artics which were in use at the time had all door boarding and no steps and were much quicker to board.

I've not lived in London since the Borismasters have come in but on my annual visits it does seem better with the dual stair cases and all door boarding but not by much.

I would argue the place for deckers is high capacity infrequent stop routes, like the North West of Sydney and Northern Beaches. But the constant stop start routes, and artic anyday.

[tonyp]

Until all upstairs passengers got off only 5 or so people could board

STA drivers on B Line won't even let those five people board. Everybody has to wait till the bitter end for everybody to be off and then everybody starts boarding slowly through the front door while they tag on.

If they're going to have that practice, the stairs should be at the front of the bus with people from the upper deck exiting through the front door, (and people from the lower deck exiting through both), while boarders enter the centre door and can tag on and populate the entire lower deck at least during the time people are exiting through the front - with the boarders who want to go upstairs already tagged on and waiting inside the bus on the lower deck until the stairs empty. Or alternatively have the stairs at the back and a back door behind the rear axle and the flows vice versa (and that's without considering going to two staircases, but that then reduces the seating which you need for the long-distance run, so it's not an option).

Typical lack of thought about passenger management in Australian bus design and operation. Much easier just to sit at the stop for yonks isn't it?

[neilrex]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... to-victory

news about buses in England. There has been quite a problem with bus cutbacks in uk regional areas.

[Simes]

The lack of productivity of STA buses was one of the main reasons for the franchising of region 6 to Transit Systems.I would expect over time that TSA will improve the productivity,getting more trips per bus,per driving shift than currently.Thats also the reason for building the tramlines.Frankly STA can not provide the capacity to cater for current demand,let alone anticipated demand over many corridors in Sydney.The solutions ,many of which have been been explored on this forum,are not difficult ,but are difficult to implement given the the cultures of TFNSW,STA AND THE RBTU.
Simply throwing more and more buses,carrying less than optimal loadings,in a non planned manner does not present a passenger attracting situation to attract the car driving punters.Proper route and frequency planning,vehicle and driver rostering is the key.It's not difficult to do-but in the culture going back decades is difficult to change.

Funny thing that, first thing TSA had on Monday morning was more buses!

[tonyp]

Funny thing that, first thing TSA had on Monday morning was more buses!

Well it's first days and they have to work with the constraints that TfNSW has handed over to them - for starters, a fleet of low-capacity, slow-loading buses. Naturally they need a lot of them to provide the level of service. If they're a good operator, one would hope that over time they will be able to influence a move to change towards a better and more productive fleet. TfNSW (and RMS for traffic priotisation) is the stick in the mud at present.

[burrumbus]

The lack of productivity of STA buses was one of the main reasons for the franchising of region 6 to Transit Systems.I would expect over time that TSA will improve the productivity,getting more trips per bus,per driving shift than currently.Thats also the reason for building the tramlines.Frankly STA can not provide the capacity to cater for current demand,let alone anticipated demand over many corridors in Sydney.The solutions ,many of which have been been explored on this forum,are not difficult ,but are difficult to implement given the the cultures of TFNSW,STA AND THE RBTU.
Simply throwing more and more buses,carrying less than optimal loadings,in a non planned manner does not present a passenger attracting situation to attract the car driving punters.Proper route and frequency planning,vehicle and driver rostering is the key.It's not difficult to do-but in the culture going back decades is difficult to change.

Funny thing that, first thing TSA had on Monday morning was more buses!

As I stated in my post it will take TSA ,probably around the 2 year mark to get things moving the right way in region 6.TSA still have to negotiate the many barriers that STA/RBTU built up over decades that inhibited the operation of efficient,customer focussed operations.That's why the patronage stagnated in actual terms,but taking account population growth ,in real terms,patronage has declined.

[Linto63]

Funny thing that, first thing TSA had on Monday morning was more buses!

TSA will be encountering a bit more dead running at either end of the day courtesy of having services terminating at Chatswood, Taronga Zoo, Bondi Junction and Coogee, which State Transit were able to operate from depots that were much closer, so no surprise it needs a larger fleet to operate the same level of services.

Well it's first days and they have to work with the constraints that TfNSW has handed over to them - for starters, a fleet of low-capacity, slow-loading buses. Naturally they need a lot of them to provide the level of service. If they're a good operator, one would hope that over time they will be able to influence a move to change towards a better and more productive fleet. TfNSW (and RMS for traffic priotisation) is the stick in the mud at present.

TSA may well have come up with alternative fleet plans in its bid, and this could see additional bus types added to the TfNSW list...we'll just have to wait and see. TSA has been a TfNSW contracted operator for nearly 5 years now, so if it were going to initiate these sought of conversations, would probably have done so by now.

[tonyp]

How did "2017-18 budget" end up in Sydney vs London topic?

[ryanair01]

Its last Leylands entered service in 1985, nearly a decade after the other government operators had placed the last of theirs in service.

Given those were B21s, they were probably more American than they were British, what with the Detroit power-plant and Allison transmission. They had the same Boltons bodywork as the O305s being delivered at the time, but only lasted until 1990 in service, whereas the O305s and the Renaults delivered around then lasted well into the 2000s.

With buses, I doubt it matters what we were buying, and from who at the time, considering their operational layouts in terms of doors, seating and standing room were all relatively equivalent.

Those B21 were awful buses, gutless, noisy and thirsty. The bodywork rattled apart too.

[Leyland B21]

Given those were B21s, they were probably more American than they were British, what with the Detroit power-plant and Allison transmission. They had the same Boltons bodywork as the O305s being delivered at the time, but only lasted until 1990 in service, whereas the O305s and the Renaults delivered around then lasted well into the 2000s.

With buses, I doubt it matters what we were buying, and from who at the time, considering their operational layouts in terms of doors, seating and standing room were all relatively equivalent.

Those B21 were awful buses, gutless, noisy and thirsty. The bodywork rattled apart too.

I actually found the Bolton bodied B21s with the exception of acceleration speed one of the best chassis/fleet I have ever utilised hence my namesake. I would also disagree with the American relative as the Perth fleet were definitely more based on the UK version. I'll stand by that. Anyway back to the thread

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[Linto63]

The B21 was I believe a Leyland National chassis with an American engine and driveline. Its success can probably best be judged by the fact that a number of operators purchased one but no more. Even Surfside on the Gold Coast who were obviously a fan of the National building up a large fleet of new and second-hand examples purchased only one batch of three.

Transperth obviously came to the conclusion and sold theirs off early to Metro-link in Sydney, who were presumably after a cheap and cheerful solution to bring their average fleet age under 12 years to comply with the Transport Act 1990.