Parramatta light rail

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
Transtopic
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by Transtopic »

tonyp wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:05 am From memory, there is a major development scenario along the north side of the river which would bring a major increase in population, so, combined with Wentworth Point, the capacity of tram would be needed. It's that old issue in Sydney - buses simply can't provide the capacity but the planning scenario may not justify rail. The long term rail plan does include a line (presumably metro) between Parramatta-Carlingford-North Ryde.
Yes, at Melrose Park. A rapid transit artic bus service along Victoria Rd, continuing to the CBD via Ryde, as well as across the Parramatta River via a new bridge to Wentworth Point, would provide far more flexibility than LR. The RT Bus can potentially provide a direct link from Melrose Park to Parramatta, West Ryde Station, Rhodes Station and Olympic Park Metro Station. The LR would only connect Melrose Park and Wentworth Point with Olympic Park from Parramatta, bypassing Rhodes which is only a short distance away. It's overkill for such a limited catchment, notwithstanding the development potential, as it's only a feeder service and doesn't justify a higher capacity LR service. I'd be extremely surprised if the business case for LR stacks up, compared with the RT bus option. You have to ask the question, why has this project been in limbo for so long and out of the blue $50m is allocated for further investigation? What's changed?

The long term rail plan from Parramatta to Macquarie Park is rather vague at this stage and only provides a link from Parramatta to Epping, where it would interchange with the existing Metro Northwest and Northern Line. That's assuming they can find a site for a new Epping terminal station, where options are fast running out because of pending developments. It still leaves other options open for the link, including the more direct route via Eastwood if LR on that corridor doesn't eventuate. It's unclear whether the proposed Parramatta to Epping link will be metro or an extension of the existing network, as it now appears that it is proposed to be integrated with an extension of the Cumberland Line from the Badgerys Creek Aerotropolis (Bradfield) via the South West Rail Link and Parramatta.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by tonyp »

The capacity of a bus line, even RT, is so small it would constrain the development opportunities for the corridor, whatever they are.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

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Wish I owned a property in Ermington now!
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by moa999 »

Swift wrote:Wish I owned a property in Ermington now!
Be interested to see who's been land banking on Boronia St and surrounds.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

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BRIDGE NAMING
Parra Light Rail is seeking submissions on a name for the big new bridge over James Ruse Drive.

I'd like support from readers here for "JEANNERET BRIDGE", to commemorate the guy who built the Parramatta to Redbank steam tram, on the SAME alignment! He doesn't get much credit elsewhere in Sydney for his significant contribution to the mobility of Sydney-siders.

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Re: Parramatta light rail

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Originally a Sydneysider, now a Melburnian
tonyp
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by tonyp »

Parramatta Harbour Bridge.

I think Redbank Bridge would be reflective of the former tramway as that was its name.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

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The Harry Triguboff Bridge, since it's the likes of him who stand to benefit most from Light Rail with a heavy price.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

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Swift wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:27 pm The Harry Triguboff Bridge, since it's the likes of him who stand to benefit most from Light Rail with a heavy price.
Haha, have submitted that, maybe it gives a laugh to whoever gets to review these :)
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Re: Parramatta light rail

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This is old, but I don't think it has been posted here before:

Western Sydney Light Rail concept fly through

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT6iKIsJL54
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by iamthouth »

There was previously consultation out for Aboriginal naming of stops, including Westmead Childrens Hospital. It has thankfully been rejected.
Dear iamthouth,

You recently provided feedback on Gurung Light Rail Stop.

The proposal has been reject.(sic)

If you have any questions please contact the GNB Secretariat.

Regards,

GEOGRAPHICAL NAMES BOARD SECRETARIAT
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by lunchbox »

Good news!
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by tonyp »

The map in this news item shows a most interesting variation in the route of stage 2 - proceeding east along Grand Ave rather than branching off the Carlingford line. Is this a recent official amendment or vague mapping by Channel 7?

https://m.facebook.com/watch/?v=1856869724337152&_rdr
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Re: Parramatta light rail

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iamthouth wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:11 pm There was previously consultation out for Aboriginal naming of stops, including Westmead Childrens Hospital. It has thankfully been rejected.
Dear iamthouth,

You recently provided feedback on Gurung Light Rail Stop.

The proposal has been reject.(sic)

If you have any questions please contact the GNB Secretariat.

Regards,

GEOGRAPHICAL NAMES BOARD SECRETARIAT
They should be using more outlandish London place names like Cockfosters and Boston Manor. More UK names!
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Re: Parramatta light rail

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tonyp wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:16 pm The map in this news item shows a most interesting variation in the route of stage 2 - proceeding east along Grand Ave rather than branching off the Carlingford line. Is this a recent official amendment or vague mapping by Channel 7?

https://m.facebook.com/watch/?v=1856869724337152&_rdr
The Grand Ave route for Stage 2 was initially shown as an alternative route for consideration as depicted in the link below, but I'm not aware of any final decision being made yet. There's very little up to date information available on the Transport for NSW website. Stage 2 appears to have been pushed back for further investigation for now and I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't see the light of day. It does seem somewhat superfluous to have 2 river crossings for Stage 2 via Grand Ave, when it could use the Stage 1 crossing.

I still believe that Stage 2 should have followed the original route from Dundas on the Carlingford Line to Macquarie Park via Kissing Point Rd and the Eastwood County Road Reservation, with the branch to Carlingford being retained. After all, the government's original intention was to provide a light rail link between Parramatta and Macquarie Park, which are the two largest employment centres outside of the Sydney CBD. The existing rail and road links are completely inadequate. We've ended up with the light rail line terminating at Carlingford, with little prospect of it continuing to Epping because of cost and engineering constraints, let alone Macquarie Park, which would be duplicating the existing metro line.

If the currently proposed Stage 2 doesn't proceed, then the Macquarie Park route via Eastwood is still an option, branching at Dundas to Kissing Point Rd.

https://s3.ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com ... ug2021.jpg
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by tonyp »

It's not just the alternate route at Camellia, there's a new alignment to Silverwater first, then back to Olympic Park.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

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tonyp wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:48 pm It's not just the alternate route at Camellia, there's a new alignment to Silverwater first, then back to Olympic Park.
Still can't find anything official, unless Channel 7 has got some inside information, or they've made it up. I've just re-watched that clip again and it also shows the route going to Meadowbank and crossing the river from there to Wentworth Point instead of from Melrose Park. Knowing the area quite well, I can't see how that would be feasible as it would be a much longer and more expensive bridge crossing at an angle. It's a convoluted route from Melrose Park and Wentworth Point to Olympic Park. I don't know what to make of it.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by Glen »

There are older maps of Stage 2 on the web that show the suburb Meadowbank, I think more as a place identifier than actually a stop on the route. Perhaps Channel 7 grabbed one of these.

Examples:

https://www.buildsydney.com/parramatta- ... e-2-route/

https://www.railexpress.com.au/section- ... onsidered/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/johncowper/37738033842


also a text reference:

https://infrastructurepipeline.org/proj ... il-stage-2
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by Transtopic »

Glen wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:19 am There are older maps of Stage 2 on the web that show the suburb Meadowbank, I think more as a place identifier than actually a stop on the route. Perhaps Channel 7 grabbed one of these.

Examples:

https://www.buildsydney.com/parramatta- ... e-2-route/

https://www.railexpress.com.au/section- ... onsidered/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/johncowper/37738033842


also a text reference:

https://infrastructurepipeline.org/proj ... il-stage-2
Yes, you're probably right. It's a bit a lazy journalism with Channel 7's schematic just connecting up suburbs without paying any attention to the actual route proposed. There's certainly nothing confirmed about a route via Grand Ave with an additional river crossing.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

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boronia wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:30 am
What would you call those trams in Europe that have overhead power, rubber tyres and a single, central, guide rail?
In Europe these are known as Translhor s. Rhymes with Coleslaw. :lol:
I don't know why our stupid politicians (and smooth-brained punters) go for these "solutions" when their performance in Europe is so poor. If we can barely sort out trams that don't break in half - a globally proven solution - what hope do we have with a Gadgetbahn?
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Re: Parramatta light rail

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Another point I'll add is in discussion of the proposed extension & connection to Epping. As someone has outlined, whilst this is only 3.5km, it is through a lot of R2 low residential and along the four lane Carlingford Stroad. Of cause, it would be nice to turn Epping into a proper interchange with Metro, Cityrail & Light rail. But we have to consider the cost against the benifit. Beyond the 630 bus (edge of two regions), Carlingford lacks transport that traverses through it. If the property developers are looking for a new corridor to put concrete boxes up against, they'd like it.
Under the early 2000s proposal to extend the ECRL to Parra, it would have provided a Parramatta "radial" to connect passengers to the Central-Coast-Newcastle line, Northern Line & the Maquarie Park & Chatswood urban hubs. As a slow & windy tram, the convenience and speed benefits to the connection here are diminished. For commuters coming from the north of Parra (to Parra), the T-way & other buses still provide the best option.
The undulating landscape around Carlingford make it less-than-ideal country to put in a surface rail line. Whatever you do, you will hit houses OR hills OR main roads. Building new tunnels for light rail in this area also seems nuts.

A branch running from WSU (Rydalmere) towards Melrose Park & then towards Meadowbank seems like a more reasonable solution. This is better than SOP in my eyes as:
1) 1 less bridge to cross
2) less kilometres
3) Olympic park isn't a proper connection to anything. During special events, sure. The rest of the time, it's a small train line that only goes one station, with a few stadiums & highrise blocks. Meadowbank also has highrises, coupled with a train line that goes somewhere.

I hope my critical thought is a good catalyst for more productive, critical thought.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

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NSW government holds back committing to next Parramatta light rail stage

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/nsw ... 59jii.html
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by moa999 »


ACM wrote: 3) Olympic park isn't a proper connection to anything. .
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Re: Parramatta light rail

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The Olympics have been and gone. Why this obsessive focus on Olympic Park like it's still the 1990s? Do they plan to turn the sports facilities into more housing?
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Re: Parramatta light rail

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Swift wrote: Tue Dec 28, 2021 12:19 am The Olympics have been and gone. Why this obsessive focus on Olympic Park like it's still the 1990s? Do they plan to turn the sports facilities into more housing?
I think it's more not Olympic Park itself (which has quite a few housing developments already - my friend lives in one of them...), but the places along the way that could use the connectivity, though Olympic Park is more a focal point (more so since Metro West is targeted for there as well).
Wentworth Point (and Melrose Park on the other side of the river, to a lesser degree) does not have much by way of connectivity proportionately (unless you count walking across the Bennelong green bridge to Rhodes train station, which has its own density issues).
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