Opal Discussion and Observations

[Fleet Lists]

Can you provide a reference for that as I can not find it.

[Passenger 57]

Updated post with links.

[boxythingy]

Does anyone know if there are any time or instance limitations built into paywave/paypass as a "security measure"? I noticed prior to contactless payments being introduced, that from time to time the following situation can occur:

1. I tap to pay for items at Shop 1, transaction accepted
2. paying for items at Shop 2 (declined), rinse and repeat does not work, (hold up customers behind me) insert card and key in pin and transaction goes through.

This appears to have happened today with Opal card readers

1. I used my phone to tap on at Railway Station A
2. I tapped off at Station B
3. Moments later, I use the same device and virtual card to board a bus to take advantage of the elusive (seldom feasible) $2 intermodal transfer discount discount and ERROR!

This happened to occur at the most vulnerable part of the night (9:30pm, last service of the day) whereby the delay in boarding the bus risked further agitating a possibly drug induced passenger waiting behind me who could have inflicted a heavy injuries on myself, other passengers or the bus operator.

Good thing the bus driver let me board without effectively paying because of this shortfall in the system.

Imagine if the bus driver did not recognise me, did not allow me to board, and I faced choosing between paying for a premium priced single ticket or left being behind stuck at the bus stop with the next service not arriving until early next morning?

[Passenger 57]

The only limit that I'm aware is the transaction limit - which I see has been doubled for the pandemic. The Opal "transactions" should be offline so the behaviour can't be entirely correlated to online transactions at a retailer. I seem to recall there may be reason codes on the printed transaction record at retailers. A friend of my does have a card where contactless only seems to work at certain terminals if that's any help. I haven't managed to nail down any pattern so far.

Imagine if the bus driver did not recognise me, did not allow me to board, and I faced choosing between paying for a premium priced single ticket or left being behind stuck at the bus stop with the next service not arriving until early next morning?

In my experience, drivers usually prefer to tell you to sit down and get the bus moving again rather than waiting for you to pay or leave. The trouble with Opal is that it may not be possible to pay the correct fare later in the trip. You probably also noticed that few drivers bother to challenge those with rejected cards.

[TheOpalUser]

What error number did you get?

[boxythingy]

Card Not Valid, no error number

[BroadGauge]

On the Opal website, it still quotes that "morning peak travel times can vary for some Intercity stations, depending on where you tap on", but that line links to this page, which no longer has any mention of different off-peak times for specific stations.

I presume there must no longer be any exemption to the blanket peak/off peak times for any specific now? I've travelled on the 7:34am train from Goulburn twice in the last week, which was previously an off-peak service (peak fares applied from 06:00 - 07:30 at Goulburn, during which no services depart anyway), but was charged the full peak fare of $8.86 for my journey.

Seems a bit ridiculous really that if I travelled on the earlier 5:30am service with an arrival into Central around 8:40am (after connecting at Macarthur), I would be charged the off-peak half fare of $4.43, which is lower than even people travelling on the same train into the CBD who boarded at Campbelltown would be paying!

[Passenger 57]

Given the morning peak commences a half hour earlier and ends an hour later it seems likely that there would be some change to the exception if indeed it still exists. See what happens when you travel after 8:30am.

[stupid_girl]

On the Opal website, it still quotes that "morning peak travel times can vary for some Intercity stations, depending on where you tap on", but that line links to this page, which no longer has any mention of different off-peak times for specific stations.

I presume there must no longer be any exemption to the blanket peak/off peak times for any specific now? I've travelled on the 7:34am train from Goulburn twice in the last week, which was previously an off-peak service (peak fares applied from 06:00 - 07:30 at Goulburn, during which no services depart anyway), but was charged the full peak fare of $8.86 for my journey.

Seems a bit ridiculous really that if I travelled on the earlier 5:30am service with an arrival into Central around 8:40am (after connecting at Macarthur), I would be charged the off-peak half fare of $4.43, which is lower than even people travelling on the same train into the CBD who boarded at Campbelltown would be paying!

https://transportnsw.info/stop?q=10101315
You can go to the information page of each station to view the peak time. I didn't spend time to check every station. As Goulburn is no exception, I don't think any other station would be.

[Passenger 57]

https://transportnsw.info/stop?q=10101315
You can go to the information page of each station to view the peak time. I didn't spend time to check every station. As Goulburn is no exception, I don't think any other station would be.

I suspect TfNSW has simply failed to update the page correctly rather than moving the start of the off-peak by 2 and a half hours.

[boxythingy]

Can someone please figure out what kind of nonsense has happened? I was still asleep in bed at 4:00am? (Phone and cards not missing, and no known cases of sleepwalking) Declined but pending, Decding? Peclined? I checked with my bank and they assured me nothing was compromised, but why design a system which makes "normal" look as though I may have been hacked?
Google Pay summary

Google Pay detail 1

Google Pay detail 2

Bank transaction detail 1

Bank transaction detail 2

[TheOpalUser]

Might help if you tell us your card issuer (eg, not all card issuers support approved/declined/refunded/pending transaction statuses in mobile wallets, including Google Pay or Apple Pay). I know American Express and ANZ don't, for example. But my CommBank card usually does - not that it's ever accurate when transactions remain 'pending' for days if not weeks!

Remember the Opal day starts at 4am and ends at 3.59am the next day.

In addition;

The date the payment on your statement appears may vary from the actual travel date depending on your bank’s processing time.

https://transportnsw.info/tickets-opal/ ... ts-content

[boxythingy]

Would it have been technically possible to require all third parties to record transactions in a consistent way just for Opal interfacing equipment?

Meanwhile Opal Travel app update has resulted in an unauthorised side by side installation of "another app" (additional app icon for access to an app extension) with a DEAD BIRD as its' logo

[sunnyyan]

^ The extra app is just because the developer accidentally pushed the wrong version of the app to the app store. Everyone makes mistakes and they'll probably remove it in the next update.

[moa999]

Some discussion on the Whirlpool forum seems to have resulted in some amendments to the Opal rules description on the website.

Edge case only present with the current 50% off-peak discount - but some journeys that previously resulted in multiple transfers, will no longer.

If the second trip costs less than the transfer discount, the discount will be capped at the second trip price, resulting in a $0 fare for the second trip.

In the event where a second trip’s transfer discount equals the cost of the second trip fare, there will be no further transfer discounts on a third trip.

Basically any journey where the 2nd (or later trip) is an off-peak 0-10km Train or 0-3km or 3-8km Bus/ Light Rail will break the Journey.

[Passenger 57]

Some discussion on the Whirlpool forum seems to have resulted in some amendments to the Opal rules description on the website.

Something on Whirlpool resulting in change? Are you sure? Pretty poor though that some journeys cost more with a 50% discount than they will cost with a 30% discount.

[Qantas94Heavy]

So does that mean for instance if you were to take the following trip during off-peak:

Bus: Balmain to QVB (3-8km)
Train: Town Hall to Bondi Junction (0-10km)
Bus: Bondi Junction to Bondi Beach (0-3km)

You'd be charged the full $3.20 for the last leg?

[moa999]

Well in off-peak (which is the only time the 2nd leg is zeroed) you'd be charged $1.60

[Passenger 57]

If the peak starts during the train trip then you'd be charged $3.20 on the last trip. The trip planner is still calculating the fare with the discount applying to every mode change for an off-peak fare of $1.60 for a B-T-B journey with the same distance bands.

[Fleet Lists]

For some reason the problem only applied in one direction and not the other so it is hard to know whether it would have applied to a trip as you describe or not.

[marcnut1996]

https://transportnsw.info/news/2020/cha ... -5-october

Opal off-peak fares will change from Monday 5 October 2020. The temporary 50% off-peak travel discount is returning to the normal 30% discount.

Also see: https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/news-a ... re-to-stay

[Mike M]

The off peak discount reverts to 30% from 5 October but the extended peak hours introduced in July remain. Another sneaky fare increase for many.

[boxythingy]

Is the pandemic over? I also like how the press release has praised that for the first time ever off peak fares are now permanently available for bus and light rail. ABOUT TIME

Also as part of an unknown update of the Opal Travel app, they implemented a new feature which removed a fare estimate of journeys?

[boronia]

Fare estimates still showing in TripFinder

[TheOpalUser]

Mastercard to deliver Opal Digital Card
https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/news-a ... gital-card

Transport for New South Wales has announced it will partner with Mastercard to deliver a trial of the Opal digital card to transport customers later this year.

Mastercard, who has partnered with EML Payments Limited and CBA, was awarded the contract for the trial following a competitive tender process. The trial will enable customers to access the Opal digital card via the digital wallet on their phone or watch and use it across the Opal network.

“The new Opal digital card will allow customers to tap on and off the network using a digital version of the card on their smart phone for the first time,” said a Transport for NSW spokesperson.

“The Opal digital card will also have the ability to be used on private modes of transport, making it even easier for customers to use Opal for their transport needs.

“Mastercard demonstrated that with its global experience in developing digital payment technology, they are well-placed to offer the best solution and most competitive price to support Transport for NSW’s requirements.”

“As consumers continue to explore new ways to pay, contactless payments via mobile phones and smartwatches are becoming increasingly popular. Mastercard’s next-generation payment platform, Mastercard Assemble, will enable Transport for New South Wales to simply and effectively design, develop and deploy a customised payments experience that meets this consumer need head on,” said Asha Cugati, Vice President, Government and Business Relations at Mastercard Australia.

“As the first technology and payment solutions provider to bring contactless payment to public transport in Australia, Mastercard is excited to build on its relationship with Transport New South Wales to offer consumers another secure and convenient way to use their Opal cards, no matter how they choose to travel,” added Cugati.

The Opal digital card will be trialled by up to 10,000 Adult Opal customers commencing later this year, giving them the convenience of having one less card to carry with all the same benefits as the physical Opal card.