Opal Discussion and Observations

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
Merc1107
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Merc1107 »

boxythingy wrote: Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:19 pm Frictionless, since when did existing tap on and off required any friction?
The way you see people using PayPass cards, or good old Opal (or other) cards, you'd think exerting sufficient force to bend the card was necessary to make it work!

It doesn't sound like something that would be successful; it isn't just kids whose bags and handbags are a labyrinth of junk or other devices that would impair such a scanning system. In the event the system doesn't tag you on or off, who is accountable for fare evasion or the default charge?

Good they are trialling new technologies (especially to reduce dwell times!), although I can't help but be cynical. Why not add conventional validators for cards in additional locations within the bus, and set them up to allow tag-on/off while the vehicle is in motion? If the bus is at a stop, that is used as the reference point to charge the fare, otherwise, the equipment will charge for the next stop, in case the passenger is trying to tag off early and avoiding paying the full fare.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by boronia »

“This can lead to improved travel times as students are able to get on and off much more quickly because they don’t need to spend time trying to find their Opal card,” Mr Constance told The Sunday Telegraph.
Encouraging people to have their cards ready before they get on/off the bus seems too hard? Not just kids who are guilty of this.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by TheOpalUser »

https://transportnsw.info/news/2021/sch ... -ticketing
High school students from Magdalene Catholic College at Smeaton Grange in Sydney’s south west will be the first in greater Sydney to trial a new frictionless ticketing system on their local buses.

Around 800 students will be given new Opal student bag tags to use on select bus services operated by Busabout with the trial of the new innovative ticketing technology designed to help improve public transport services between home and school.

The new Opal student bag tags eliminate the need to physically tap on and tap off the bus with an Opal card.

The students simply attach the Opal tag to their school bag and when they walk onto the bus, it’s automatically picked up by a reader, delivering a seamless travel experience.

This can lead to improved travel times as students are able to get on and off much quicker as they don’t spend as much time trying to find their Opal card.

As some students forget to tap on and tap off, this technology will also mean more accurate passenger count data which will help plan services in the future.

The bag tags contain a microchip that transmits data using Radio Frequency Identification (RFID), enabling it to communicate with a RFID reader 1-2 metres away.

The students who travel to and from Magdalene Catholic College under the School Student Transport Scheme on select Busabout services will participate in the trial which will run for the entire school year.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by boxythingy »

How would one reverse a tap on? Walk backwards clap three times or do a jiggle?
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by swtt »

boxythingy wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:37 pm How would one reverse a tap on? Walk backwards clap three times or do a jiggle?

School Opal cards cost the end user nothing, and will unlikely require a reverse tap on.

Whether it's then applicable to other fare attracting Opal card types then it'll be interesting.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by boxythingy »

Imagine stopping and reversing on the M7 to undo a beep of your e-Tag. You'd be fined or jailed in place of a default fare
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by boronia »

Wouldn't reverse tap work the same as a card, after 20 seconds?

If these things work up to 2m from the detector, what are the risks of them being detected while passengers are still in the bus, but not getting off?
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by boxythingy »

I can't imagine people knowing that they need to wait before exiting the bus to tap off, they'd simply hop off and there goes another default fare towards the ever-growing pool of unclaimed cash to "compensate" for "lost fare revenue"
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Fleet Lists »

https://transportnsw.info/news/2021/tap ... e#homepage
Tap on every time to avoid a fine 21 February 2021

From February 2021, more than 800 Transport Officers, Authorised Revenue Protection Officers and Police will be patrolling all modes of public transport including metro, trains, buses, light rail and ferries, and checking that customers are travelling with a valid ticket. Officers will be carrying Opal card readers to check if you have paid your fare.

Officers are required to wear masks on public transport, and maintain physical distancing where possible when handling Opal cards/ tickets/ valid contactless payment cards. Face masks are mandatory on public transport and at a public transport waiting area including the station, platform and other transport stops.

Officers will minimise contact with customer property by encouraging customers to present their tickets to the reader and taking photo evidence of identification/ tickets when issuing fines

They also carry and use hand sanitiser frequently, including after handling Opal cards or smart devices and provide alcohol wipes to customers to disinfect their device/ticket after checking.

If you are using an Opal card, officers will check your balance, recent transaction history and the card type (e.g. Adult, Senior/Pensioner, Concession or Child/Youth).

If you are using a contactless card or device, officers will check if it is valid and accepted for contactless payments, where you tapped on or off and the fare you paid.

If you are travelling on a concession fare you may be asked to provide proof of entitlement.

Key facts

On average, up to 10,000 people have their tickets checked every day
While most people pay the correct fare, some people don’t do the right thing
The chances of getting caught are high because officers will be travelling across the whole transport network and at different times of the day

When everyone pays their fares, it means there is more money to spend on extra services and new infrastructure, and we are able to better plan for future services and develop accurate real-time information for you.

It’s now easier than ever to pay for public transport because contactless payments are available on all public transport in NSW. You can use a contactless credit or debit card or linked device for Adult Opal fares and get the same travel benefits as Opal.

Remember, it is an offence to travel on public transport in NSW without being in possession of a valid ticket.

Tap on every time to avoid a hefty $200 fine (maximum fine amount $550).

Find out more about how to pay for public transport in NSW.
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boxythingy
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by boxythingy »

Last year during a time when the COVID-19 situation was arguably more worrying, a transport officer grabbed my phone to check for its tap on status and then handed it back to me without sanitising it. Face masks were also not mandated at that time
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Jurassic_Joke »

Fleet Lists wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:43 pm https://transportnsw.info/news/2021/tap ... e#homepage
Tap on every time to avoid a fine 21 February 2021

From February 2021, more than 800 Transport Officers, Authorised Revenue Protection Officers and Police will be patrolling all modes of public transport including metro, trains, buses, light rail and ferries, and checking that customers are travelling with a valid ticket. Officers will be carrying Opal card readers to check if you have paid your fare.

Officers are required to wear masks on public transport, and maintain physical distancing where possible when handling Opal cards/ tickets/ valid contactless payment cards. Face masks are mandatory on public transport and at a public transport waiting area including the station, platform and other transport stops.

Officers will minimise contact with customer property by encouraging customers to present their tickets to the reader and taking photo evidence of identification/ tickets when issuing fines

They also carry and use hand sanitiser frequently, including after handling Opal cards or smart devices and provide alcohol wipes to customers to disinfect their device/ticket after checking.

If you are using an Opal card, officers will check your balance, recent transaction history and the card type (e.g. Adult, Senior/Pensioner, Concession or Child/Youth).

If you are using a contactless card or device, officers will check if it is valid and accepted for contactless payments, where you tapped on or off and the fare you paid.

If you are travelling on a concession fare you may be asked to provide proof of entitlement.

Key facts

On average, up to 10,000 people have their tickets checked every day
While most people pay the correct fare, some people don’t do the right thing
The chances of getting caught are high because officers will be travelling across the whole transport network and at different times of the day

When everyone pays their fares, it means there is more money to spend on extra services and new infrastructure, and we are able to better plan for future services and develop accurate real-time information for you.

It’s now easier than ever to pay for public transport because contactless payments are available on all public transport in NSW. You can use a contactless credit or debit card or linked device for Adult Opal fares and get the same travel benefits as Opal.

Remember, it is an offence to travel on public transport in NSW without being in possession of a valid ticket.

Tap on every time to avoid a hefty $200 fine (maximum fine amount $550).

Find out more about how to pay for public transport in NSW.
Yawn. Wish we had the transport police of the past, pre-HOP era, the ones were actually tough on crime, including fare evasion.

With todays officers, there aren’t really any fines, when someone isn’t tapped on on the train, all they get is a wishy washy warning.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Swift »

Yes because this is a weak socially left country that refuses to embrace zero tolerance policy proven to work elsewhere.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by boxythingy »

Let's focus on the facts, they are mostly there during times and locations of peace and target those whose fine would be more likely be at the expense of food or essentials. Conversely, what use is there if it's at the expense of someone's funds towards their hedgefund investment- not interested in someone's tears or tantrums because they made a loss but will not face consequences of hunger or displacement from their accomodation.

Of course they cannot be present at every single event where war breaks out, so what's this smart data and trends analysis all about to inform good decisions on when and where they should really be deployed?
Last edited by boxythingy on Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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boronia
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by boronia »

So there is 800 of them. They usually work in "packs" of 4, so there would be around 200 packs. Probably only half of them on duty at any particular time, so just 100 packs out on the entire network at any one time. Take out the police packs who don't seem to have much interest in fare evasion of mask wearing; the chance of getting pinged is pretty low.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

Jurassic_Joke wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:07 pm Yawn. Wish we had the transport police of the past, pre-HOP era, the ones were actually tough on crime, including fare evasion.

With todays officers, there aren’t really any fines, when someone isn’t tapped on on the train, all they get is a wishy washy warning.
The repurposing of the transit officers to transport officers was a part of the Transport For NSW overhaul that happen after the Libs got voted in
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Swift »

Libs? Dictatorship more like making them Dics 😣
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Aurora »

boronia wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:43 pm So there is 800 of them.
That number combines Transport Officers and Police involved in the initiative. Don’t know who the revenue protection officers are though?
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by boronia »

Maybe the RPOs are employed by the operators? Transdev has its own staff checking on the LR.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by CityRail »

boronia wrote:Maybe the RPOs are employed by the operators? Transdev has its own staff checking on the LR.
And ferries as well?

I hope Transdev is not winning any more bus contracts, so to keep passengers a peace of mind.

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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Aurora »

CityRail wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:42 pmAnd ferries as well?

I hope Transdev is not winning any more bus contracts, so to keep passengers a peace of mind.
I’ve never seen RPOs on a Transdev bus, and I use them occasionally. Not doing a great job if that is the case.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by boxythingy »

There have been multiple reports that people going about doing some weekend travel are being checked up to five times per day with three of these instances by the same team of TO's- what's going on with all the duplication?
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by boronia »

Some people must be doing a lot of riding to get 5 checks in one day. If they are getting the same TOs, are they on the one line?
Are TOs expected to remember the identity of every passenger that any member of their team checks?

Sounds like a bit of social media BS to me. Presumably from people who haven't tapped their cards

The only blitzing I've seen on weekends is on the LR. I've had multiple checks on the same day by different crews, but being captive to a short line, this could be expected.
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by pgt »

For some time I've noticed at least in the morning there are either security guards or TransportNSW staff (in orange hi-vis) at some key bus stops doing headcounts of people on buses - whether they're counting those wearing, or not wearing, a mask I'm not sure but it seems that's what they're looking for.
Be curious as to what sorts of numbers they are seeing when they do their counts.

On the buses I've been on, only occasionally would I see 100% compliance (*fitted* masks being worn properly).
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by boronia »

They have had these people at some LR stops for some months now.

Hard to understand what they would be checking given the abundance of CCTV at stops and on board. And Opal data. With most trams in AOA it would be difficult to see what is inside.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by boxythingy »

Why can one not tap off when a tap on did not occur (due to hardware error)? The card more than the required minimum balance required for peak hour but less than the default fare
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