Maldon to Dombarton Link (Split from NWRL discussion)

[eddy]

I still do not see how a loaded diesel train can get through a non ventilated tunnel or where it goes when it gets to Maldon.
Please, please, please just forget all about it and give us a seperate westbound Picton road before they whack up another subdivision at Wilton that would prevent it in the future.
10 years of stuffing around and all we have is one km of extra overtaking lane.

[tonyp]

Before I left Oz a couple of months ago I used that Bulli-Wilton road a couple of times for the first time in decades. Reading all the accident news over time I expected a goat-track, not the superb road I found. You truck industry guys certainly have a way of getting things out of government. If only they could do the same for rail.

Maybe the problem is that a lot of car drivers don't know how to drive, not the road itself. How anyone could have an accident on that road escapes me.

[Xplorer]

Before I left Oz a couple of months ago I used that Bulli-Wilton road a couple of times for the first time in decades. Reading all the accident news over time I expected a goat-track, not the superb road I found. You truck industry guys certainly have a way of getting things out of government. If only they could do the same for rail.

Maybe the problem is that a lot of car drivers don't know how to drive, not the road itself. How anyone could have an accident on that road escapes me.

fully agree, especially how people say the Pacific Highway is so dangerous, but not when they drive sensibly...

[Daniel]

Bringing the discussion back towards topic, it would appear the link is progressing somewhat with th appearance of these two tenders yesterday:
Engineering and Operations: http://tenders.nsw.gov.au/?c=D3DD8F5F
Planning and Environment: http://tenders.nsw.gov.au/?c=2B5DDE3E

[mrobsessed]

Drivers being paid trip money, Tony. That has always been the problem.

Previously, most coal went to O'Briens drift on the Mt Kembla Rd and was railed to Port Kembla. Doc68 will be able to elaborate.

[eddy]

It looks to me like they are trying to work out if there is anything it would carry particularly from the first link.
Trucks are speed limited to 100kph so if a major road will not allow that then the road needs fixing to increase productivity.

[tonyp]

The original line design was premised on electric traction partly because the tunnel was too long for diesels. Perhaps the alignment could be given to TRT (Truck Rapid Transit) to bypass the Picton Rd!

Eddy look up the Harecastle Canal tunnel in England. A couple of kms long and the diameter of a large sewer pipe (an aquatic version of Parrahub). I've taken a diesel narrowboat through and the trick is to keep up your speed to keep the exhaust behind you (aided by the tunnel draft). If you suffer from claustrophobia forget it. After a while you start hallucinating and feel like you're going uphill (on water)! Not for the fainthearted, fair put me off tunnels for life!

[eddy]

Tony
I think it would be cheaper to whack a seperate westbound Picton road through the bush with a bulldozer than to use the MD route.
If you have a look at the updated Parrahub site you will see that I now accept that most decision makers and public want conventional subways in conventional tunnels and have modified it.

[boxythingy]

If you vote for a change of government, the completion of the Maldon-Dombarton line will become a definite No no.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-14/m ... tt/4754718

[eddy]

Once again I say what would it carry?

[Daniel]

Coal, containers, new cars...

[eddy]

There is not much coal left and they intend taking it all underground to Westcliff and from there by truck to the loader. I doubt if it would be possible to cart cars or anything much up through a non ventilated tunnel with a diesel and there is not enough power for electric trains.

[Fleet Lists]

From http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/media-r ... eight-line

Registrations to open in weeks for Maldon to Dombarton rail freight line

Minister for Roads and Freight Duncan Gay and Minister for the Illawarra John Ajaka today urged investors to put up their hand to finish building the 35-kilometre rail freight line in the Illawarra.

The Registration of Interest process to construct the remaining sections of the Maldon to Dombarton rail freight line opens on 13 October 2014 and the deadline for responses is 2pm on 24 February 2015.

“Next month, the NSW Government will open a formal process to gauge private sector interest in constructing the remaining sections of the Maldon to Dombarton rail freight line,” Minister Gay said.

"I said we'd have an update on this process in September and we are on track and delivering on our commitments.

“The ‘Registration of Interest’ process will invite the private sector to submit proposals to design, construct, operate and maintain the rail freight line.”

“It proposes an innovative, market-based approach where the private sector would take the lead in managing the freight demand to ensure it is a commercially viable rail freight line,” he said.

Transport for NSW Freight and Regional Development will manage the Registration of Interest (RoI) for the proposed line, a partially constructed freight line which would connect the Main Southern Railway at Maldon to Dombarton, near Port Kembla.

Minister Ajaka said the Maldon to Dombarton rail freight line was an unfinished story in Australian infrastructure and the NSW Government wants the market to help determine when it should be completed.

“The Maldon to Dombarton line would provide additional rail freight capacity directly in and out of Port Kembla and help cater for the forecasted doubling of freight movements in NSW over the next 20 years,” he said.

“Private sector engagement should have happened a decade ago, but NSW Labor was too lazy and incompetent to gauge market interest in this rail freight line.”

Investigations completed by Transport for NSW and the NSW Bureau of Freight Statistics indicate existing rail infrastructure is sufficient to manage short and medium term rail capacity to Port Kembla.

“However, as the freight task grows with the growing NSW economy and passenger services increase, it is important we have the right infrastructure in place for our rail network to operate at its peak efficiency in the future,” Minister Ajaka said.

Construction on the line started in 1983 but was halted due to an economic downturn and the forecast growth in coal traffic not eventuating.

The Australian Government commissioned a feasibility study on the rail freight line and committed $25.5 million in funding to Transport for NSW in late 2011, to prepare detailed designs necessary for any future construction.

Transport for NSW has now completed this planning and pre-construction design work, making the project ready to go ahead pending market interest and planning approval.

Minister Gay said the Registration of Interest was a critical next step in understanding whether it is commercially viable to complete and open the rail freight line in the shorter term.

More information is available on the NSW eTendering website at tenders.nsw.gov.au.

[mandonov]

Building this would solve all the problems of extending the SRT to Hurstville.

[simonl]

Building this would solve all the problems of extending the SRT to Hurstville.

Not all. Stopping Campbelltown via Sydenham would still be a limitation of that. Not to mention the lack of advantage.

[Transtopic]

Building this would solve all the problems of extending the SRT to Hurstville.

Not all. Stopping Campbelltown via Sydenham would still be a limitation of that. Not to mention the lack of advantage.

This is possibly why the rapid transit extension to Hurstville hasn't been mentioned in the latest SRT proposal to run to Bankstown only. It also suggests to me that the Rapid Transit will not extend beyond Bankstown and that the Liverpool via Regents Park services will be restored, allowing the Rapid Transit to run a consistent all stations service with greater frequency from Bankstown to the city. The only option then for Birrong and Yagoona is a shuttle service between Bankstown and Lidcombe.

[simonl]

The idea of terminating the rt at Bankstown is very dumb. Regents park would be far superior.

[eddy]

Perhaps it would be better to make it a fast single deck passenger train with a station at Wilton as I cannot see any freight that would use it also when I suggested a subway from Maldon/Parramatta to a group in the new subdivision there a few years ago one lady said it would be excellent.

Tony
Even though in this proposal http://talkwiltonjunction.com.au/wordpr ... r-2012.pdf they talk a lot about public transport I cannot see any reference to bringing Picton road up to Hume standard and it really should have at least a corridor for the future especially as they talk of four sets of traffic lights on Picton road 500m apart 8.3.1.3

There would be plenty of room for park and ride at Dombarton and it would reduce the traffic on Mt Ousley road significantly.

[Transtopic]

I cannot see any freight that would use it.

Coal from the Western coalfields (Lithgow) and container freight bound for the South Coast from the Western and Northern Lines, which currently use the Illawarra Line from Sydenham.

[Mckinlayr]

Something interesting to consider... The proposed intermodal terminal at Moorebank will probably end up taking up most of the available rail capacity between it and Port Botany on the Sydney Goods line. Perhaps the Maldon-Dombarton line will relieve some of the competing traffic and make the intermodal proposal more viable?
As for passengers on the line... Would it actually be faster than the current buses between Wollongong and Campbelltown? I don't think it would be.
Also isn't the line planned as mostly single track with a passing loop in the middle? I'd rather it be left as a freight line.

[Transtopic]

Something interesting to consider... The proposed intermodal terminal at Moorebank will probably end up taking up most of the available rail capacity between it and Port Botany on the Sydney Goods line. Perhaps the Maldon-Dombarton line will relieve some of the competing traffic and make the intermodal proposal more viable?
As for passengers on the line... Would it actually be faster than the current buses between Wollongong and Campbelltown? I don't think it would be.
Also isn't the line planned as mostly single track with a passing loop in the middle? I'd rather it be left as a freight line.

Agree.

[eddy]

The biggest challenge is how to get a loaded diesel train through a single non ventilated tunnel or if it would be economically possible to electrify the line sufficiently to take a loaded train uphill through it and then you have a chance that the NSW government would remove the rail subsidies that are allowing the Lithgow mines to still export.

I feel that the NSW government does not want to take the risk but if a private mob want to they can.

Perhaps some super fund may think it is a good investment because they are a bit naive.

I agree that it would be just as quick to get a bus Wollongong/Campbelltown but in the future I think more people would want to go Wollongong/Parramatta.

The way I see it for the future is a half hour passenger trip Dombarton/Wilton/Parramatta leaving the existing south coast line available for more freight work.

[simonl]

Who said the tunnel wouldn't be ventilated?

The world has gone towards ventilation systems and away from electrification for these kinds of tunnels.

[eddy]

Maybe I have missed something but everything I have read so far said it was a problem not just in getting sufficient ventilation but getting approval to use it with no second means of egress.

I have found this link of a longer tunnel that was ventilated with shafts http://mosenltd.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... Tunnel.pdf and someone suggested on railpage that perhaps it could use driverless trains where others just said we were a too safety conscious in NSW.

[Doc68]

Drivers being paid trip money, Tony. That has always been the problem.

Previously, most coal went to O'Briens drift on the Mt Kembla Rd and was railed to Port Kembla. Doc68 will be able to elaborate.

There were way way less accidents on this road when 4 then 3 & down to 2 mines were bringing coal into O'Briens drift as well as trucks from Wollondilly washery using Picton rd from Oakdale to Port Kembla coal loader. I don't know whether the car driving idiots got gamer with less trucks on the road being paid "trip money" But if we had the road now back then I would have been a lot richer