Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

[Nugget]

How does PT within the Sydney centre fail? It's just got even better with the reinstatement of a tram circulator. There's also often no need to transfer once you reach any point in the CBD, people just walk. The improvement of the surface pedestrian environment will make that an even better experience.

The presumption is your only going to the CBD but if the transfer points for some lines are in the CBD then maybe they are transferring to the Airport Line or the Waterfall/BJ line.

[Linto63]

There's also often no need to transfer once you reach any point in the CBD, people just walk. The improvement of the surface pedestrian environment will make that an even better experience.

While many people's journey concludes in the CBD, there are plenty that merely pass through it on the way from one side to the other. While the light rail may have improved the ambience of George Street, the rest of the CBD is every bit as congested as it was before its existence.

[tonyp]

The presumption is your only going to the CBD but if the transfer points for some lines are in the CBD then maybe they are transferring to the Airport Line or the Waterfall/BJ line.

The transfer points appear to be Martin Place and Central in the planning for both metro lines. I think it's an unreasonable expectation to think that every station should have a direct transfer connection. The metro is so quick there's only a couple of minutes or so between these stations. It's not going to make much difference to go one extra station to make the transfer.

[Swift]

George St was a horrid blight on the CBD. This is one aspect of the light rail that has been immensely beneficial.
Sydney badly needs catching up with the rest of the world and this expenditure on capital works is going towards eliminating the long standing foul aspects of Sydney. Now if only they'd make it more attractive to use the CCT.

[In Transit]

That's why Sydney and Australian PT will always fail. Thinking that what they do works when it clearly doesn't. The connection between buildings and where people actually want to go and the ability to transfer are the hallmarks of efficient PT services globally.

How does PT within the Sydney centre fail? It's just got even better with the reinstatement of a tram circulator. There's also often no need to transfer once you reach any point in the CBD, people just walk. The improvement of the surface pedestrian environment will make that an even better experience.

A tram circulator which, just in time for it to be fully operational, has been rendered less attractive in that role with the increase in short distance fares on light rail, and the lack of a single multimodal fare (as opposed to effectively separate fares on each mode with the partial transfer rebate). Bus to tram at Wynyard? Pay more than if transferring to another bus. Ferry to tram at CQ? Pay more than if transferring to another ferry. Train to tram at Central? Pay more than if transferring to another tram. Great foresight really. Build a tram which has a key function of intra-CBD transfers, and then immediately adjust the fares to make this less attractive. A bit like building a tram which is going to break previously single bus journeys, and then charge passengers more for it, and have very little in place to properly facilitate that interchange either. Linked up thinking? If it is, its got nothing to do with making public transport more effective or attractive.

[tonyp]

Not good, but how many people pay fine attention to this as they tap tap tap away with their Opal card as they move between modes? Is it really a disincentive?

[Swift]

That's probably what the government is counting on.

[moa999]

The presumption is your only going to the CBD but if the transfer points for some lines are in the CBD then maybe they are transferring to the Airport Line or the Waterfall/BJ line.

The transfer points appear to be Martin Place and Central in the planning for both metro lines. I think it's an unreasonable expectation to think that every station should have a direct transfer connection. The metro is so quick there's only a couple of minutes or so between these stations. It's not going to make much difference to go one extra station to make the transfer.

The transfer points appear to be Martin Place and Central in the planning.

Exactly.. the two points that are closest together.

Even using Greenwood Plaza to stay underground from North Sydney you only get within 100m of the station - though if the contentious proposal to demolish and rebuild the MLC Centre gets up then it might be a decent connection.

Any decent connection between Town Hall and Pitt St is reliant on Clover's Town Hall Square which has seemingly been pushed well down the road.

[Transtopic]

Any decent connection between Town Hall and Pitt St is reliant on Clover's Town Hall Square which has seemingly been pushed well down the road.

That's true and it could no doubt be a reason why it hasn't been included at this stage. If and when Town Hall Square ever eventuates, I would expect that such a connection would be built, including with other surrounding precincts.

[Nugget]

The transfer points appear to be Martin Place and Central in the planning for both metro lines. I think it's an unreasonable expectation to think that every station should have a direct transfer connection. The metro is so quick there's only a couple of minutes or so between these stations. It's not going to make much difference to go one extra station to make the transfer.

The transfer points appear to be Martin Place and Central in the planning.

Exactly.. the two points that are closest together.

Even using Greenwood Plaza to stay underground from North Sydney you only get within 100m of the station - though if the contentious proposal to demolish and rebuild the MLC Centre gets up then it might be a decent connection.

Any decent connection between Town Hall and Pitt St is reliant on Clover's Town Hall Square which has seemingly been pushed well down the road.

Going back, even if you were going to the CBD having better transfer options offers an incentive to take PT. For instance, if you're coming in from Wollestonecraft to Barangaroo, the option now is to go to Martin Place or Central, which involves going several stops further than intended or going and transferring to another train then a metro. If you had North Sydney as a transfer point or even Town Hall this looks like a better option in the scheme of things. Otherwise folks would look at Uber, Taxi or private car.

[boronia]

If you needed to go from Wollstonecraft to Barangaroo, the easiest and quickest option might be get off train at Wynyard and walk?

[tonyp]

If you needed to go from Wollstonecraft to Barangaroo, the easiest and quickest option might be get off train at Wynyard and walk?

Yes, isn't that the purpose of the Wynyard Walk?

[lunchbox]

Wynyard Walk, nice as it is, is only "attractive" if you're fit. There would be lots of passengers seeking the "least walking" route.

[boronia]

But length wise, it would not be much more than walking between North Sydney and Victoria Cross stations. And you might still have a fair walk from Barangaroo station to the commercial areas.

Passengers will soon work out which is the most effective option for their particular needs.

[Swift]

Wynyard Walk, nice as it is, is only "attractive" if you're fit. There would be lots of passengers seeking the "least walking" route.

Walking is the best exercise for unfit people as anyone can do it as long as they pace themselves accordingly.
This covered and relatively safe route may well save the lives of sedentary people down the line!

[Nugget]

Wynyard Walk, nice as it is, is only "attractive" if you're fit. There would be lots of passengers seeking the "least walking" route.

Walking is the best exercise for unfit people as anyone can do it as long as they pace themselves accordingly.
This covered and relatively safe route may well save the lives of sedentary people down the line!

I think the problem is that people who are unfit will just say that I will drive or take an Uber. Experience overseas shows that the mentality is that if I can get there looking at a map they often will even though a transfer requires a bit of a walk because the transfer station looks central. New York Times Square is used to transfer even though there is a often a half mile walk between platforms. You do hear the odd tourist say that it doesn't look that long on the map

[tonyp]

Years ago when I was living in London, my wife went off to an appointment near Baker St somewhere, using the Tube diagrammatic map to get there. There was a change of line just one stop short of her destination and she dutifully waited down on the platform for the connecting train to come, which happened to be about 15 minutes late (typical LT back then), so she was late for her appointment. I pointed out to her that if she had looked at a real map, she would have realised that all she had to do was get off the first train and go to the surface from where it was about a half-block walk to her destination!

Virtually nobody can drive and park in the Sydney CBD, so that option is out. I've never heard of anyone transferring from PT to a taxi or Uber within the CBD. I certainly wouldn't, as mobility-impaired as I am. Some of us can get along quite well walking and, as Swift says, it's good for us. It's steps of any sort that are the show-stopper. If the Wynyard walk is stepless (or with alternatives to stairs), it sounds like a good walk. The stepless metro and tram are/will be a blessing for moving around the CBD. Direct interchange is not so much an issue when it takes a minute or two to go to the next stop and change there.

[boronia]

I think this is one of the disadvantages of "spaghetti maps" if you are not familiar with a city. They just do not give a true perspective of location and distances. Sydney's version is not too bad because it does not have many lines to show.

I've been to Tokyo a few times, and I much preferred a real map to get around. There are lots of underground interconnections between lines/stations, some of them involve walking 400-500 metres.

[Swift]

Montreal getting it's own version of this off the shelf imported rolling stock. Looks nicer to me.
https://youtu.be/tmPXUmV822U?t=03m50s

[tonyp]

Real time car park spaces availability for NW metro stations now available on AnyTrip. Just click on the station (those with car parks) on the map.

I clicked on Holsworthy to see if it was being done on equivalent suburban system car parks, but no.

[boronia]

Is this related to Opal activated parking?

I don't how Metro parking stations are coping, but one at Penrith which was previously near full by 8 am is now still only about 1/4 full all day.

[iamthouth]

Present at Seven Hills too. There looks to only be data from where drivers have to go through a gate, so they can be counted.

[jxeeno]

Present at Seven Hills too. There looks to only be data from where drivers have to go through a gate, so they can be counted.

It's not necessarily to do with how spaces are counted. Metro car parks don't have gates at the moment, so the space occupation is counted using ceiling mounted sensors. Other Opal Park&Ride locations use gate entries for counting.

[tonyp]

B Line car park space tallies are also on AnyTrip. All basically Opal car parks.

[Swift]

A Canadian's appraisal of the metro and how it ties in with the rest of the transport network.
https://youtu.be/VcELMSSDdpM