Artic/14.5's STA

[Ben_Daui]

I notice the STA has more artics on the road now then 14.5's, I know there is 1 new 14.5 wrapped in red so looking at the fleet lists 50 14.5's to 81 artics. One would assume either artics are more practical choice or the STA is concerned about using 14.5's as per the story of 3447.

I was looking at the images on photo's/ACT and saw the 14.5's that are in service with ACTION which made me wonder as CDC have plenty of 14.5's.

[Daniel]

Try 119 artics...

[shovelyjoe]

I think 14.5s are a better option than artics. Pity State Transit didn't get more Scania L113TRBLs.

[swtt]

I think 14.5s are a better option than artics. Pity State Transit didn't get more Scania L113TRBLs.

They are much harder to maneuver than artics. In fact from my understanding, artics maneuver better than even, rigid 12.5m buses.

[TAA727]

I think 14.5s are a better option than artics. Pity State Transit didn't get more Scania L113TRBLs.

They are much harder to maneuver than artics. In fact from my understanding, artics maneuver better than even, rigid 12.5m buses.

Certianly as well as. Essentially a 18m artic will go anywhere that a 12.5m rigid will go, however a 14.5m Rigid will NOT go anywhere, as I discovered (intentionally) when in training and tried a U-turn at Coogee beach (Arden/Dolphin Sts) and didn't quite make it!
The only time an artic is more of an issue than a rigid is when reversing. And unfortunately as some STA drivers seem to struggle to even drive a bus forward with out hitting anything, don't even ask them to reverse an artic!

[robert]

The only time an artic is more of an issue than a rigid is when reversing. And unfortunately as some STA drivers seem to struggle to even drive a bus forward with out hitting anything, don't even ask them to reverse an artic!

Not that I want to do it, but what is the secret to backing an artic? Is it like backing a trailer, where you need to steer in the opposite direction to where you want to go?

[Andrew]

That's right robert. You steer the opposite way to what you want to go, like a car with a trailer. The bus would be easier to reverse though as the trailer is longer and has its articulation point further away from the axle. That said, a bit blind spot in the mirroirs opens up on one side of the bus as the mirror located on the front part of the bus will not be facing the right way to see the rear past a certain angle. I hope to be doing my artic training with a popular Sydney private operator shortly!

[VivalaBuses]

Do the Hillsbus arctics have a steering axle on the rear axle? If so, how would you reverse that because the rear axle would counter the direction of the trailer?

[Andrew]

They do steer, but they steer in a direction that complements the front axle, so there's no issue - they would probably be easier actually.

[VivalaBuses]

With an arctic the direction you steer while reversing the trailer goes in the opposite direction. In the Hillsbus arctics, the rear steering axle complements the front steering axle, as you said. So when you steer left, the trailer goes right but the rear axle will be pointed in the direction against the trailer, if you get what I mean...

[Andrew]

The trailer steer will be helping the trailer to go around in the same direction as the articulation point.

[TAA727]

Or perhaps the trailer steering doesn't operate while reversing?

The only time an artic is more of an issue than a rigid is when reversing. And unfortunately as some STA drivers seem to struggle to even drive a bus forward with out hitting anything, don't even ask them to reverse an artic!

Not that I want to do it, but what is the secret to backing an artic? Is it like backing a trailer, where you need to steer in the opposite direction to where you want to go?

As has been said, yes backing an artic is essentially the same as backing a box trailer with a car. But as also pointed out the trailer is far better behaved (ie easier to control) due to it's size and length. Given the design of buses you will loose sight of the trailer in the mirror opposite to the direction it is turning pretty much as soon as the bus begins to bend, you just have to watch the trailer with the other mirror to control it - no great drama.

I always enjoy reverse parking an artic near McDonalds at Sydney airport - when one cruises in with a full size artic bus and effortlessly reverses 2-3 bus lengths, the looks of amazement on the faces of the shuttle bus drivers with their little Hi-Ace vans and box trailers is a pleasure to behold.

[Stu]

I've been told that Volvo have designed a bendy that can have the turn plate locked to allow for easy straight reversing. I heard this about a year ago from a driving instructor at STA but don't know much more about it, maybe they are only in Europe at the moment or there is not much interest for them here in Aus at the moment.

[Ben_Daui]

Or perhaps the trailer steering doesn't operate while reversing?
I always enjoy reverse parking an artic near McDonalds at Sydney airport - when one cruises in with a full size artic bus and effortlessly reverses 2-3 bus lengths, the looks of amazement on the faces of the shuttle bus drivers with their little Hi-Ace vans and box trailers is a pleasure to behold.

I the look on their faces is priceless

[robert]

I always enjoy reverse parking an artic near McDonalds at Sydney airport - when one cruises in with a full size artic bus and effortlessly reverses 2-3 bus lengths, the looks of amazement on the faces of the shuttle bus drivers with their little Hi-Ace vans and box trailers is a pleasure to behold.

Well, having mostly driven Rosa's in the last 4 years, I would be in the same category.

Thanks for your insights into backing artics, though.

[User7526]

I don't know if there are any present day artics available with steerable rear axles but when I worked at Busways in the days of the Fuji artics that they had reversing was easy. The rear axle was connected to the turntable by a series of drag links (much like the one to the front axle from the steering box) and to reverse was a case of simply watching your mirrors and being aware of your length. For the record too, they went in and out of Blacktown Station so easily it surprised many people, even members of the public!

P.

[boronia]

There are many roads in Sydney where 14.5s are forbidden to be driven. There are no so restrictions on artics.

[booma]

There are many roads in Sydney where 14.5s are forbidden to be driven. There are no so restrictions on artics.

Would the list of restrictions also include the Spit hill bends?

[Ben_Daui]

There are many roads in Sydney where 14.5s are forbidden to be driven. There are no so restrictions on artics.

Is there a list?

[eddy]

So is Andrew right or not. If the rear axle steers i would have thought he is wrong can someone who has driven a rear steer please tell me.
Also i can imagine that 14.4m would be OK in Canberra because it is a designed city.

[boronia]

There are many roads in Sydney where 14.5s are forbidden to be driven. There are no so restrictions on artics.

Is there a list?

There is info on the RTA website somewhere.

Restrictions were based on the need for such a vehicle to remain wholly within a lane, and not encroach over lane lines or centre lines, on curves and corners.

[deepthought2006]

Gee, I reckon that that would just about count out using the Pacific Highway through St.Leonards and Artarmon in Lane 1, then. No more Long Bus 290s! <Sniff>. It even counts out Mowbray Rd: no more running special from Willoughby Depot to Epping or Marsfield, either!

I guess the measurers aren't too strict, or maybe the bus *must* travel in Lane 2, or something, which would make having to use any of the Artarmon stops in Pacific Highway more than a bit annoying. I'm just glad I don't drive a Long Bus.

[Bus 400]

There are many roads in Sydney where 14.5s are forbidden to be driven. There are no so restrictions on artics.

There is word that the ACT RTA still have objections to the 14.5's due to the weight distribution. So if the RTA allows ACTION's 14.5's then it will open the flood gates to b doubles in Canberra roads. The articulated buses don't allow this due to the weight being distributed more. It is only rumor for now, but it does make a bit of sense (right?).


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[boronia]

Not sure what is meant by "weight distribution", but usually axle loads are the critical factor and I'm sure these 14.5s would comply with current regs.

Murrays have been running 14.5s around CBR for quite a few years; have they had any problems?

[Andrew]

So is Andrew right or not. If the rear axle steers i would have thought he is wrong can someone who has driven a rear steer please tell me.
.

See the post by Peta Mechanic above. The rear steer artics are the same as what he mentions. The rear steer uses input from the turntable, thus assisting with the turning, even in reverse.