December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

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HHH
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by HHH »

swtt wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:15 pm
HHH wrote:The 430 will most likely not have much of a future after it is cut back to the City, most likely to operate between Sydenham and Martin Place for a short term before being abolished as there will only be a few stops difference between the other City services nearby.
Those trips can perhaps be plowed back into existing routes. Similar to M10 disappearing, but 461x and 438x getting some major upgrades.

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The parking areas at Wynyard and Martin Place are quite full, even with the 413 removed from Martin Place, the 430 will no longer be a though route and will add to congestion in the City. Reinvesting these trips into different route numbers will keep the same problem, maybe use a different city based route like route 308.
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swtt
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by swtt »

Taking a step back, the transportnsw.info page still doesn't mention where the 430 will now terminate, only saying it's City - Sydenham!

I'm guessing an even more comprehensive list of changes will be pumped out soon, now that it's mid November.

At the same time, it's also become a sufficiently short route for it to become a "loop" service, like the 442 and 503?
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by Cazza »

Loop services like the 442 are very unreliable. I made a point of this on the 24/11/18 (before the December 2 changes came out) expressing my concern for the OTR of Route 442 (especially since it was one of the main routes I used when I was down in Sydney). Not 3 days after the changes came into play, exactly what I said had happened- buses were bunching and running upwards of 10 mins late departing for the outbound run from QVB.

So much for providing a service with scheduled 10 min frequencies when in reality, service gaps of up to 20 mins are a common sight.
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by stupid_girl »

swtt wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:07 am Taking a step back, the transportnsw.info page still doesn't mention where the 430 will now terminate, only saying it's City - Sydenham!

I'm guessing an even more comprehensive list of changes will be pumped out soon, now that it's mid November.

At the same time, it's also become a sufficiently short route for it to become a "loop" service, like the 442 and 503?
I'm wondering whether 100 will also be a loop service. Obviously, Taronga Zoo has much better layover capacity than QVB. A loop service can also avoid passing through Wynyard twice.
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by Xplorer »

stupid_girl wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:39 pm
swtt wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:07 am Taking a step back, the transportnsw.info page still doesn't mention where the 430 will now terminate, only saying it's City - Sydenham!

I'm guessing an even more comprehensive list of changes will be pumped out soon, now that it's mid November.

At the same time, it's also become a sufficiently short route for it to become a "loop" service, like the 442 and 503?
I'm wondering whether 100 will also be a loop service. Obviously, Taronga Zoo has much better layover capacity than QVB. A loop service can also avoid passing through Wynyard twice.
I thought the plan is for the 100 to use Stand T at Wynyard on the outbound, not Stand A, so that avoids such situation of passing through the already congested Wynyard Park twice
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by J_Busworth »

Xplorer wrote: Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:31 am
I thought the plan is for the 100 to use Stand T at Wynyard on the outbound, not Stand A, so that avoids such situation of passing through the already congested Wynyard Park twice
It would appear that the 100 stays on York Street fully for the inbound and Clarance Street fully on the outbound, which would make Stand T very likely.
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HHH
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by HHH »

I would not be surprised if Region 7 is given the same treatment as Region 8 regarding creating a main trunk service and reducing other current City services on Victoria Rd to become feeder services.

The upcoming changes are already going to have an impact on Region 7 as it is being split apart from Region 8 (operationally speaking), this would be a good opportunity to rework routes 410 and 458. Region 6 has the capacity to adopt Region 7 route 458 which predominantly operates in Region 6.
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by 745-Castle Hill »

The 410 should end at Top Ryde and the 458 should be extended to Macquarie both with 10 min peak and 20 min off peak with even spacing. I’m sure anyone travelling to/from south of Burwood Station can change at Burwood or Top Ryde.
Would improve reliability greatly on the 410.
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by swtt »

745-Castle Hill wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:21 pm The 410 should end at Top Ryde and the 458 should be extended to Macquarie both with 10 min peak and 20 min off peak with even spacing. I’m sure anyone travelling to/from south of Burwood Station can change at Burwood or Top Ryde.
Would improve reliability greatly on the 410.
Wasn't there talk about breaking 410 up into a northern and southern segment some time ago?

Judging by the current split, the northern segment from Burwood - Marsfield seems to be far busier, with a late night service whereas the southern segment finishes totally after 8.30 pm.

458 getting extended would attract nobody. The detour into Rhodes takes too much time.

Far better to consider taking the 458 across to Wentworth Point/OIympic Park Wharf to give direct access to Concord Hospital and let 533 take care of the Rhodes passengers wanting to go to Ryde.
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by rogf24 »

HHH wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:10 pm I would not be surprised if Region 7 is given the same treatment as Region 8 regarding creating a main trunk service and reducing other current City services on Victoria Rd to become feeder services.
Splitting up the M52 would be great. Maybe retain the 520 for overnight service, but sending the western end of M52 straight into West Ryde station would be excellent. But I think West Ryde will need an interchange upgrade.
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by swtt »

rogf24 wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:07 pm
HHH wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:10 pm I would not be surprised if Region 7 is given the same treatment as Region 8 regarding creating a main trunk service and reducing other current City services on Victoria Rd to become feeder services.
Splitting up the M52 would be great. Maybe retain the 520 for overnight service, but sending the western end of M52 straight into West Ryde station would be excellent. But I think West Ryde will need an interchange upgrade.
If that's the case, then the western segment should go to Ryde. Many passengers on the M52 continue on eastwards - most of them to Top Ryde City.

Having some overlap (like the 400/420, 357/418) is important if the route is to be split.
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by HHH »

745-Castle Hill wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:21 pm The 410 should end at Top Ryde and the 458 should be extended to Macquarie both with 10 min peak and 20 min off peak with even spacing. I’m sure anyone travelling to/from south of Burwood Station can change at Burwood or Top Ryde.
Would improve reliability greatly on the 410.
The 458 used to extend to Macquarie Uni and commence a return trip from Macquarie Centre (both trips as limited weekday services), this was canned in May 2017 when TfNSW commenced making changes to bus routes in the Macquarie Park area due to the anticipated opening or the metro.

Maybe the 458 will remain as is and the 410 will be cut back to Concord Hospital.
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by rogf24 »

Thorny questions about the bus network, after decades of it not being reviewed and services just added ad-hoc. I hope they sort out the 410/420/490/492 mess soon as well. While they're at it, similar routes serving a similar north-south corridor in the "outer" part of the "inner west"/R6 like the 415/450/491 and maybe even the 406 need to be reviewed as well.
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swtt
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by swtt »

HHH wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:22 pm
745-Castle Hill wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:21 pm The 410 should end at Top Ryde and the 458 should be extended to Macquarie both with 10 min peak and 20 min off peak with even spacing. I’m sure anyone travelling to/from south of Burwood Station can change at Burwood or Top Ryde.
Would improve reliability greatly on the 410.
The 458 used to extend to Macquarie Uni and commence a return trip from Macquarie Centre (both trips as limited weekday services), this was canned in May 2017 when TfNSW commenced making changes to bus routes in the Macquarie Park area due to the anticipated opening or the metro.

Maybe the 458 will remain as is and the 410 will be cut back to Concord Hospital.
410 cut back to Concord Hosp? How will the part north of Concord Hosp survive? It's has very healthy patronage.

Or do you mean "bring back the 459 but reroute it to Burwood and cut the 410 to Rhodes"?
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swtt
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by swtt »

Back to the original discussuon: I so wish the timetable information would be entirely consistent with destos. The destos for the X routes still largely say Limited Stops for formerly L routes that have been converted (eg 190X).

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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by boronia »

There has been so much overlap between L and X services over the years, it hardly matters now. Just give an indication that it doesn't stop at all stops and let the customer sort it out.
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by stupid_girl »

It seems there will be a massive increase of bus routes ending at Warringah Mall. (172X,173X,177,178,179,180) Will there be enough layover space or will these routes become loop services?
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by swtt »

...less than a month to go and still no timetables/route maps appearing.
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by Fleet Lists »

Timetables are usually two week ahead so depending on the exact date, still a little while to go.
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by J_Busworth »

Well with the changes happening on 20 December, we still have a couple weeks to wait for timetables. I have also heard that the 430 will be terminating at Martin Place.
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by pgt »

J_Busworth wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:45 am Well with the changes happening on 20 December, we still have a couple weeks to wait for timetables. I have also heard that the 430 will be terminating at Martin Place.
First mention I've seen of a date in December for these changes (definitely not on the website yet)... sounds plausible enough for a date though.

As for the 430 terminating at Martin Place, given it follows the "green line" bus routes for the most part to Newtown, keeping them all together does make sense to a point.
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by rogf24 »

Would be disappointing if it does terminate at Martin Place. Good to have a King St route which serves other parts of the city. Why not do it like the 320 shorts.
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by pgt »

rogf24 wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:36 pm Would be disappointing if it does terminate at Martin Place. Good to have a King St route which serves other parts of the city. Why not do it like the 320 shorts.
This could potentially happen given they're asking people to "change buses", and assuming those passengers come from the 100 route, most likely the 430 would have to link up somewhere with it.
QVB is possible, but fiddly for the northbound interchange unless they somehow use a stop on Clarence St, so Wynyard is the other possibility, assuming there's enough space for the 430 buses to park up and start the next run - or will it be a "loop" like the 503 ended up being?
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by HHH »

The 430 will use Martin Pl and eventually get the chop due to extreme duplicity.
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by iamthouth »

Saw a petition today to keep route 136 in Victoria Ave, Smith St etc....thought, that's a bit late, that won't even be the new route number.
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