Forced labour use in China-sourced transportation products

General Transport Discussion not specific to one state
tonyp
Posts: 12348
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 am

Forced labour use in China-sourced transportation products

Post by tonyp »

The Australian Strategic Policy Institute released in 2020 a very comprehensively-researched study to uncover the use of slave labour in the supply chain of Chinese products sold in Australia:

https://www.aspi.org.au/report/uyghurs-sale

The report identified 82 brands but note that the brand company may not be involved in the practice itself but the abuse is occurring in the Chinese supply chain. Some foreign companies may not have been aware of this issue and/or may have taken action on their supply chains subsequent to this report. The companies relevant to Australian public transport, as far as I can determine, are highlighted.
Abercrombie & Fitch, Acer, Adidas, Alstom, Amazon, Apple, ASUS, BAIC Motor, Bestway, BMW, Bombardier[now Alstom], Bosch, BYD, Calvin Klein, Candy, Carter’s, Cerruti 1881, Changan Automobile, Cisco, CRRC, Dell, Electrolux, Fila, Founder Group, GAC Group (automobiles), Gap, Geely Auto, General Motors, Google, Goertek, H&M, Haier, Hart Schaffner Marx, Hisense, Hitachi, HP, HTC, Huawei, iFlyTek, Jack & Jones, Jaguar, Japan Display Inc., L.L.Bean, Lacoste, Land Rover, Lenovo, LG, Li-Ning, Mayor, Meizu, Mercedes-Benz, MG, Microsoft, Mitsubishi, Mitsumi, Nike, Nintendo, Nokia, Oculus, Oppo, Panasonic, Polo Ralph Lauren, Puma, SAIC Motor, Samsung, SGMW, Sharp, Siemens, Skechers, Sony, TDK, Tommy Hilfiger, Toshiba, Tsinghua Tongfang, Uniqlo, Victoria’s Secret, Vivo, Volkswagen, Xiaomi, Zara, Zegna, ZTE.
User avatar
eddy
Posts: 3756
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:18 am
Contact:

Re: Forced labour use in China-sourced transportation products

Post by eddy »

When I buy an electric jug for $7 sometimes I wonder if some parts are made with slave labour or if it was made with a factory that can produce even cheaper than cheap labour like when the Mexican doll makers were upset because the Americans were producing cheaper than them.
Parrahub, an extra option in the public transport menu http://www.parrahub.org.au/
Tim Williams
Posts: 1241
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:26 pm
Location: Adelaide

Re: Forced labour use in China-sourced transportation products

Post by Tim Williams »

Thanks for this Tony, the more widely this is publicised, the better.

As an example of the way things are going and multinationals being totally fixated in cost reduction, a lot of the major camera manufacturers have indeed transferred their manufacturing from Japan to China - I tend to keep older cameras (they are often not worth much) and two brands in particular that I favor are Panasonic and Olympus and I can say that the older cameras were made in Japan, the newer ones, China. Even the high end Olympus OM-D's are made in China! I see that Panasonic is on that "slave labour" list and although I there seems to be no mention of Olympus, they may also be involved via a third party.

Cameras are only one small example - that article is comprehensive and lists a wide range of suppliers involved in this poor labour practice. WE should, where possible, avoid purchasing from those listed suppliers!!
Nugget
Posts: 277
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:17 am

Re: Forced labour use in China-sourced transportation products

Post by Nugget »

If you want to call out every alleged slave labour country then good on you. Even Australia is not exempt from that practice.
Tim Williams
Posts: 1241
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:26 pm
Location: Adelaide

Re: Forced labour use in China-sourced transportation products

Post by Tim Williams »

Please read the comments below (taken from Wikipedia):

The Uyghur genocide is the ongoing series of human rights abuses perpetrated by the government of China against the Uyghur people and other ethnic and religious minorities in and around the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region (XUAR) of the People's Republic of China. Since 2014, the Chinese government, under the direction of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) during the administration of CCP general secretary Xi Jinping, has pursued policies leading to more than one million Muslims (the majority of them Uyghurs) being held in secretive internment camps without any legal process in what has become the largest-scale and most systematic detention of ethnic and religious minorities since the Holocaust.Thousands of mosques have been destroyed or damaged, and hundreds of thousands of children have been forcibly separated from their parents and sent to boarding schools.
Critics of the policy have described it as the forced assimilation of Xinjiang and have called it an ethnocide or cultural genocide. Some governments, activists, independent NGOs, human rights experts, academics, government officials, and the East Turkistan Government-in-Exile have called it a genocide
In particular, critics have highlighted the concentration of Uyghurs in state-sponsored internment camps, suppression of Uyghur religious practices, political indoctrination, severe ill-treatment, as well as extensive evidenc and other testimonials detailing human rights abuses including forced sterilization, contraception, abortion, and infanticides. Chinese government statistics show that from 2015 to 2018, birth rates in the mostly Uyghur regions of Hotan and Kashgar fell by more than 60%. In the same period, the birth rate of the whole country decreased by 9.69%, from 12.07 to 10.9 per 1,000 people.[51] Chinese authorities acknowledged that birth rates dropped by almost a third in 2018 in Xinjiang, but denied reports of forced sterilization and genocide. Birth rates have continued to plummet in Xinjiang, falling nearly 24% in 2019 alone (compared to a nationwide decrease of just 4.2%).
Merc1107
Posts: 2243
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:38 pm
Favourite Vehicle: MAN 18.310, MB O405NH, L94
Location: A Coastal City

Re: Forced labour use in China-sourced transportation products

Post by Merc1107 »

Nugget wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 11:45 am If you want to call out every alleged slave labour country then good on you. Even Australia is not exempt from that practice.
Here come the China-Apologists... :roll:
I suppose Australian people routinely go missing or are threatened by an (authoritarian) Government for simply being of a specific minority?
Linto63
Posts: 2809
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:44 pm

Re: Forced labour use in China-sourced transportation products

Post by Linto63 »

So have we all stopped using Google, thrown away the Iphone and all the other electrical stuff we all have from some of these companies? Morally wrong as it is, the reality is that we have all and will continue to purchase from many of these organistaions.
Tim Williams
Posts: 1241
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:26 pm
Location: Adelaide

Re: Forced labour use in China-sourced transportation products

Post by Tim Williams »

Yes, I am sure we will carry on purchasing products from these companies, I just hope that the moral factor comes into it (rather than the pure profit motive) and that manufacturing reverts to their own countries - probably a hope that is in vain!
Merc1107
Posts: 2243
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:38 pm
Favourite Vehicle: MAN 18.310, MB O405NH, L94
Location: A Coastal City

Re: Forced labour use in China-sourced transportation products

Post by Merc1107 »

Linto63 wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 12:42 pm So have we all stopped using Google, thrown away the Iphone and all the other electrical stuff we all have from some of these companies? Morally wrong as it is, the reality is that we have all and will continue to purchase from many of these organistaions.
Fair point. It doesn't mean, however, that we shouldn't be advocating for these corporations to cease, or drastically-reduce, their business activities in these places. It doesn't mean we shouldn't boycott these products inasmuch as possible to send a clear signal that the practice is unacceptable.

Instead of buying a throwaway product you don't really need, you don't buy it, or source something secondhand that could be repaired instead. Don't replace iPhones and other 'essential' electronics so often. Does everyone really need a new iPhone/Samsung Galaxy/whatever every year, or could they reduce the number of devices in their possession? These companies rely on rampant consumerism, treat some of these products more like durable goods and it blows a hole in their modus operandi...
User avatar
eddy
Posts: 3756
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:18 am
Contact:

Re: Forced labour use in China-sourced transportation products

Post by eddy »

I have watched many of these 24H videos and most people seem to be just good workers in dangerous and boring jobs but I have wondered if some are getting punished if they do not perform well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NE7H4NCm5RE
Parrahub, an extra option in the public transport menu http://www.parrahub.org.au/
tonyp
Posts: 12348
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 am

Re: Forced labour use in China-sourced transportation products

Post by tonyp »

Tim Williams wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 12:58 pm Yes, I am sure we will carry on purchasing products from these companies, I just hope that the moral factor comes into it (rather than the pure profit motive) and that manufacturing reverts to their own countries - probably a hope that is in vain!
The tide is turning though. Since covid and the realisation that it was a mistake to open up commerce with a totalitarian country hoping that would change or moderate it (no lessons learnt from the Cold War, let alone the 1930s/1940s there), there is a quiet but steady move away from China by suppliers around the world. It'll take quite a while but other countries will move into the space. Still likely to be largely offshore origin for us, though hopefully some of it will come back home to stay. Talking to somebody in Harvey Norman the other day I was told that larger appliances tend to come from other countries now, it's only some of the smaller stuff and componentry that comes from China. Of course a lot of heavy industrial stuff comes from China but that will change during a gradual process of disengagement.

You're right eddy, apart from the slavery issue, the population in general does not live in a free labour market with fair work conditions like we expect in the west.
Nugget
Posts: 277
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:17 am

Re: Forced labour use in China-sourced transportation products

Post by Nugget »

Merc1107 wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 12:14 pm
Nugget wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 11:45 am If you want to call out every alleged slave labour country then good on you. Even Australia is not exempt from that practice.
Here come the China-Apologists... :roll:
I suppose Australian people routinely go missing or are threatened by an (authoritarian) Government for simply being of a specific minority?
Well the Australian government purportedly isn't authoritarian but you can ask some Islam adherents about their experience if you can find them.
User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
Posts: 23803
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:49 pm
Location: The Shire

Re: Forced labour use in China-sourced transportation products

Post by Fleet Lists »

Nugget wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 4:06 pm
Well the Australian government purportedly isn't authoritarian but you can ask some Islam adherents about their experience if you can find them.
What is that supposed to mean?????
Living in the Shire.
User avatar
boxythingy
Posts: 3891
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:48 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Anything not 'B-set' w/problms

Re: Forced labour use in China-sourced transportation products

Post by boxythingy »

It's useless to identify what was derived from slave labour and what's not. It's time for a paradigm change and realise that we are in a position of privilege and as such, we are an advantageous position to exercise autonomy and ethics to eliminate the possibility of slave labour use once and for all
Myrtone
Posts: 351
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:29 am

Re: Forced labour use in China-sourced transportation products

Post by Myrtone »

So let's ask practically minded people what benefit really exists in having slave labour. Think about what the rest of the world has achieved without it.
User avatar
1whoknows
Posts: 3983
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:55 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: Forced labour use in China-sourced transportation products

Post by 1whoknows »

Well the rest of the world is basically divided into those who have or have had slavery and those who have been enslaved.

Most European expansion/ colonisation and the parallel growth of north America from the 16th century onwards involved exploiting the local native populations either in their home countries in Africa, Asia and North and South America or by transporting them to other colonies. Some middle eastern countries also have traditions of slavery, in particular the use of women in harems. More recently we saw the use of slave labour of captured peoples by Japan, Germany and Italy during WW2 and the use of dissidents and slaves for most of the 20th century by Russia/ USSR, the model now adopted by China. Not to mention sexual slavery that persists in many parts of the world. Nor do politics matter much...as John K Galbraith once said "Under Capitalism man exploits man, under communism its the exact opposite".
"Inside Every Progressive Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out"
David Horowitz.
User avatar
boxythingy
Posts: 3891
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:48 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Anything not 'B-set' w/problms

Re: Forced labour use in China-sourced transportation products

Post by boxythingy »

Working reasonable overtime without any formal recognition of time in lieu or minimum x2 overtime rates as soon as you commence the first hour after completing the standard hours may be considered slavery, so to eliminate this situation, all work is shifted overseas to eliminate any risk of slavery from occurring domestically.
Merc1107
Posts: 2243
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:38 pm
Favourite Vehicle: MAN 18.310, MB O405NH, L94
Location: A Coastal City

Re: Forced labour use in China-sourced transportation products

Post by Merc1107 »

WAToday wrote: Perth’s billion-dollar train deal linked to exploited Uighur workers in China
By Marta Pascual Juanola
June 28, 2021 — 6.04am

A billion-dollar train deal between Western Australia and manufacturing giant Alstom is the latest government contract in Australia to face scrutiny for its use of Chinese suppliers linked to exploited Uighur workers.

It comes weeks after revelations Melbourne’s transport authority advised the Victorian government to continue buying parts from a contractor using Muslim workers to avoid additional costs and delays in its $2.4 billion train project.

However, Alstom is adamant its supply chain is free of exploitation and has updated its contracts with suppliers and contractors to include modern slavery clauses.

The McGowan government signed a $1.3 billion contract with Alstom to build and maintain Perth’s next fleet of trains in December 2019 in what was hailed as a milestone for its flagship Metronet project.

It has since been revealed the French multinational will build the network’s C-Series railcars using parts produced by a Chinese firm which sourced workers from Xinjiang through a controversial government program to re-educate minorities.

KTK Group is a major supplier of train fittings headquartered in Changzhou, near Shanghai, and supplies parts to projects in Victoria, NSW, and Queensland.

The company was blacklisted by the US Commerce Department last year for its role in China’s “campaign of repression, mass arbitrary detention, forced labour, and high technology surveillance against Uighurs, Kazakhs and other members of Muslim minority groups”.

In correspondence with Bombardier, another train manufacturer that has since merged with Alstom – obtained by WAtoday under Freedom of Information laws – KTK confirmed it had employed almost 80 workers from Nilka province in Xinjiang between 2018 and 2019 for its factory in Jiangsu, about 4000 kilometres away, through Beijing’s Xinjiang Aid program.

The Nilka County is situated within the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region, and is largely made up of Kazakhs, who are also a persecuted minority group. The Australian Strategic Policy Instituted reported that the Chinese government’s “re-education” policies have mainly targeted the Uighurs but also other Turkic speaking Muslim minorities such as the Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Tartars, Tajiks, Kyrgyz and Hui.

But it claimed the workers had voluntarily signed contracts that complied with China’s labour laws.

“KTK has employed one dedicated cook in order to respect and satisfy the tradition of Muslim food and provided new decorated dormitories to them free of charge,” the supplier said.

The number of workers from Xinjiang currently employed by KTK is unclear and the company did not respond to requests for comment from this masthead.

Researchers estimate about 80,000 members of persecuted minorities have been moved out of their homes or detention camps in Xinjiang to work at factories under the program, which has been marketed as a “poverty alleviation” initiative for re-educated Uighurs.

In March last year, the Australian Strategic Policy Institute think tank published a world-leading study that found Alstom, along with 82 companies including Nike and BMW, was benefiting from the forced labour of Uighur people. The report found KTK employed about 40 Uighur workers in 2019.

According to the study, the workers often lived in segregated dormitories, underwent Mandarin and ideological training, were constantly under surveillance and barred from practicing their religion.

Chinese state media claims participation in the program is voluntary, but workers who have fled the country described living in fear of being sent back to detention while working at the factories.

The Chinese constitution does not explicitly ban slavery, forced labour, and human trafficking but it recognises a citizen’s right to freedom, work, and rest. However, workers’ exploitation often goes unreported due to the government’s role in programs like Xinjiang Aid.

The documents obtained under Freedom of Information laws show Alstom carried out an investigation into the matter and determined KTK had not used forced labour.

But China experts are questioning whether Australian companies are able to appropriately determine the veracity of KTK’s claims given the lack of transparency in Xinjiang.

The issue was recently highlighted by UN-appointed human rights experts in a letter to KTK chairman Jinkun Yu, where they claimed multinational companies were not allowed to freely access Chinese factories to check no human rights abuses were being committed.

“We are concerned these workers who are allegedly forcefully relocated across the country are subjected to forced labour as part of what the government describes as development and poverty alleviation policy,” it read.

Alstom, which has updated its contract with suppliers to include specific modern slavery clauses, directed all queries to the WA Public Transport Authority.

A PTA spokeswoman said the agency had received assurances from Alstom “they are confident in the integrity of their supply chain and the conduct of their suppliers”.

“Under its contract with the state government, Alstom is obligated to comply with the Commonwealth Modern Slavery Act 2018,” she said.

The Act requires companies with a turnover of $100 million or more to publish annual statements outlining the risk of forced labour in their supply chains but does not impose financial penalties.

But human rights and trade advocates say the current legislation doesn’t go far enough and argue Australia should appoint an anti-slavery commissioner in line with other jurisdictions like the UK, which recently rolled out additional requirements on companies buying goods from Xinjiang.

A review of the Act is set to take place later this year but it is unclear whether any significant changes will be made, and a bill by Senator Rex Patrick to ban goods produced in the Uighur-majority region has since fallen through.

WA Transport Minister Rita Saffioti said she was aware of Alstom’s plans to use KTK components to manufacture Metronet railcars but an independent audit commissioned by the company last year had identified no forced labour issues that “necessitate a change in supplier”.

“We have learnt from the approach of other states and the Public Transport Authority has been proactive in seeking assurances from Alstom on the integrity of their supply chain,” she said.

“I have asked the Public Transport Authority to closely monitor the situation and continue to work with Alstom to ensure all suppliers uphold the high standards expected by the WA community.”

Half of the components used to build the new C-Series railcars at Metronet’s Bellevue facility will be sourced locally in WA, while the remaining parts will be brought in from overseas.

It is not the first time a public transport project in WA has been in the headlines over issues tied to China.

Last year the McGowan government was forced to dump a $206 million mobile data deal with Chinese telco Huawei after a US trade ban on the company meant it couldn’t finish the job.

The company has since been linked to exploited Uighurs through its use of components manufactured by at least five companies using thousands of workers transferred from Xinjiang.
tonyp
Posts: 12348
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 am

Re: Forced labour use in China-sourced transportation products

Post by tonyp »

Any assurances received from a Chinese company would be worth nothing. They'd simply be lied to.
Megumi
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:07 am

Re: Forced labour use in China-sourced transportation products

Post by Megumi »

RIP for every Chinese. Chinese citizens other than Uyghurs are experiencing less freedom as they have to live for house, kids and parent's reputation.

Every Chinese are forced to work, by capitalists, instead of the government. China is in the 19th century of the UK. That's a shame for capitalism.
tonyp
Posts: 12348
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 am

Re: Forced labour use in China-sourced transportation products

Post by tonyp »

Megumi wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 1:07 am RIP for every Chinese. Chinese citizens other than Uyghurs are experiencing less freedom as they have to live for house, kids and parent's reputation.

Every Chinese are forced to work, by capitalists, instead of the government. China is in the 19th century of the UK. That's a shame for capitalism.
Chinese citizens have had no freedom since 1949. There is no capitalism in China, all those "companies" and "millionaires" are just facades, all controlled by the state and the state is controlled by the Communist Party. They've been more sophisticated than Russia was with the Soviet Union and duped many countries and people into believing that communist China is something different from what it is, a totalitarian state. Now the world is waking up after a very hard lesson which you'd think it would have learned in the 1930s and 1950s but apparently hasn't. Now we have to work through a whole lot of commercial dealings and supply chains and disconnect all the links and replace them with sourcing elsewhere.
Megumi
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:07 am

Re: Forced labour use in China-sourced transportation products

Post by Megumi »

eddy wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 1:33 pm I have watched many of these 24H videos and most people seem to be just good workers in dangerous and boring jobs but I have wondered if some are getting punished if they do not perform well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NE7H4NCm5RE
If they don't perform well, they'll be fired, lose the job. Eventually, they'll realise that they have to perform well to keep the job. A crucial truth in China is that the capitalists can easily control their workers without violence. There is a sophisticated system there which drives everyone to work and they look free but not in heart.
Megumi
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:07 am

Re: Forced labour use in China-sourced transportation products

Post by Megumi »

tonyp wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 7:13 am
Megumi wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 1:07 am RIP for every Chinese. Chinese citizens other than Uyghurs are experiencing less freedom as they have to live for house, kids and parent's reputation.

Every Chinese are forced to work, by capitalists, instead of the government. China is in the 19th century of the UK. That's a shame for capitalism.
Chinese citizens have had no freedom since 1949. There is no capitalism in China, all those "companies" and "millionaires" are just facades, all controlled by the state and the state is controlled by the Communist Party. They've been more sophisticated than Russia was with the Soviet Union and duped many countries and people into believing that communist China is something different from what it is, a totalitarian state. Now the world is waking up after a very hard lesson which you'd think it would have learned in the 1930s and 1950s but apparently hasn't. Now we have to work through a whole lot of commercial dealings and supply chains and disconnect all the links and replace them with sourcing elsewhere.
Personally, I don't mind, but I do prefer non-Chinese products for now. Good luck to those entities. By the way, I don't trust any capitalists, no matter where they from.
User avatar
GriffinRoads1
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2022 8:29 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Anything in SouthTrans stripes
Contact:

Re: Forced labour use in China-sourced transportation products

Post by GriffinRoads1 »

Technically Australian railways have used unpaid labor since WW1, remember the Holdsworthy line? That was built by German POWs from the Holdsworthy Concentration Camp. (Probably not as bad as what we see them nowadays, thanks Hitler)
I prefer my catches rare.
Enviro 500
Posts: 1098
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:42 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Scania N113CRB
Location: WA 6000
Contact:

Re: Forced labour use in China-sourced transportation products

Post by Enviro 500 »

Merc1107 wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 12:14 pm
Nugget wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 11:45 am If you want to call out every alleged slave labour country then good on you. Even Australia is not exempt from that practice.
Here come the China-Apologists... :roll:
I suppose Australian people routinely go missing or are threatened by an (authoritarian) Government for simply being of a specific minority?
The closest we came to that was the police raid on the WA Housing Department employee of Aboriginal heritage who blew the whistle on racism inside her department.
Post Reply

Return to “General Transport Discussion”