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New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Postby Swift » Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:31 am

Schoolkids are disgusting by and large.
They are granted free travel and can't do a simple thing in return. They used to mostly dip their magnetic passes when I was a driver. Disrespectful critters otherwise.

They should be dealt with as fare evaders and fined.
No system works without enforcement measures for non compliance.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Postby boronia » Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:50 am

.Allowing school kids to get away without tapping just gives them encouragement to do it after school.

Perhaps AOs need to start blitzing school buses? No pass or no tap: 1st time give a warning, 2nd time cancel the pass and tell them to get an Opal.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Postby tonyp » Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:31 pm

J_Busworth wrote:The 353 most certainly needs a frequency upgrade and this network rewrite would be the perfect time for it. I haven't been on a 353 that hasn't refused passengers due to the bus being full. it is a very popular route and I'd say it most definitely has the capacity to grow.

One of the big issues I'm concerned about in their creation in this new network is looking at how school students move throughout the network. Very few if any school students actually tap on/off on services and nothing is really done about it. However this does cause an underreporting of bus loading in the real time data (buses driving past full whilst showing as 1 out of 3 on the apps underreporting). Hopefully they have considered this in the development of the network.

This connects with the issue of buses often not actually being full due to internal layout and front-door loading. They're often only perceived to be full by the driver but are not actually full to capacity. This underutilisation of existing bus services affects the overall capacity of the corridor and, yes, leads to the need for additional buses, poor productivity and higher costs. However, if existing city services are cut short by diversion to CSELR, hopefully that will allow diversion of more existing buses to those other services and result in some cost neutrality at least.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Postby Swift » Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:09 pm

I think doubling frequency is the answer for the 353. It would attract even more patronage away from cars. I loved the service between Maroubra and Coogee and Maroubra and Eastgardens when I used it last year. The half hour frequency is what made me choose the car sometimes.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Postby tonyp » Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:26 pm

Swift wrote:I think doubling frequency is the answer for the 353. It would attract even more patronage away from cars. I loved the service between Maroubra and Coogee and Maroubra and Eastgardens when I used it last year. The half hour frequency is what made me choose the car sometimes.

That's what I had in mind when I mentioned cascading buses from the cancelled CSELR services. They should be used to build up services like this.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Postby Stu » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:01 pm

J_Busworth wrote:I have been told to expect the M10 to become Leichhardt to Pitt Street 440 short runners and the M50 to become 508s, but to expect that to be subject to change.


The 508 will most likely become a loop service due to no lay over space in the Sydney CBD.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Postby rogf24 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:50 pm

Another shocking abuse of the word loop like for the 381.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Postby tonyp » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:12 am

rogf24 wrote:Another shocking abuse of the word loop like for the 381.

I guess any bus service is a loop in the sense that it has to go around in a circle to return to its route. Not as bad as British railway and tramway parlance where a loop can be either a loop or a straight line. But I get your point. You'd expect a loop service to return along a different path to that which it went out on.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Postby J_Busworth » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:30 am

Stu wrote:The 508 will most likely become a loop service due to no lay over space in the Sydney CBD.


They could use the old taxi/loading zone space near the Scientologist Church on the western side of Castlereagh St between Park and Bathurst? It seems like the perfect place for a layover for a Town Hall terminating 508 (or really any Town Hall terminators). From Park L Castlereagh to layover, then from layover L Bathurst, L Elizabeth, L Park to pickup.

But a loop does seem like a likely option.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Postby Cazza » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:46 am

Or just get rid of the 508 entirely... It's only 4 am services (2 of which aren't even in proper peak hour) and just the 1 pm outbound service. Need more short runners from Drummoyne? Start it up on Victoria Rd and actually run more than 5 services a day! I'm all for short runners, but if you're gonna put them in, do it properly rather than making the service cover the smallest part of some low density, car driving peninsula.

It's not a difficult walk to/from the Wolseley St bus stops. Even from the furthest house at Five Dock point is only 900m. I walk a bit over 1km (15 mins) to/from a more frequent stop every day because my local bus stop (not even 250m away) only runs 10 times inbound and 9 times outbound on weekdays only (and never the times when when I need them).

Routes shouldn't be sent from everyones front doors into the CBD. Full stop.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Postby Swift » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:49 am

There should be more loops. The city has too many bus services going into it. The one useful thing about L2 and L3 also needs to be fully exploited -eliminate as many bus services into the city as possible.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Postby Fleet Lists » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:54 am

Cazza wrote:Or just get rid of the 508 entirely... It's only 4 am services (2 of which aren't even in proper peak hour) and just the 1 pm outbound service.

As I read it the curtailed M50 trips will also become 508's so there will be more than a few trips. On that basis getting rid of it is not an option.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Postby Cazza » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:49 pm

I think boosting the frequency of Route 504 to every 15 mins during the day (up from 30 mins) would be a much better use of resources than running short runners from Drummoyne all day. Then you can use any remaining resources to run the 501 or 518 every 15 mins, or hell even the M52 up to every 10 mins (from 15 min headways). I'd much rather see that happen than have these off-peak short runners.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Postby swtt » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:34 pm

Cazza wrote:I think boosting the frequency of Route 504 to every 15 mins during the day (up from 30 mins) would be a much better use of resources than running short runners from Drummoyne all day. Then you can use any remaining resources to run the 501 or 518 every 15 mins, or hell even the M52 up to every 10 mins (from 15 min headways). I'd much rather see that happen than have these off-peak short runners.

And perhaps that might be a longer term solution - rather than boost these 2009-2010 vintage short runners to jack up capacity only in the inner most suburbs.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Postby Fleet Lists » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:41 pm

Cazza wrote:I think boosting the frequency of Route 504 to every 15 mins during the day (up from 30 mins) would be a much better use of resources than running short runners from Drummoyne all day. Then you can use any remaining resources to run the 501 or 518 every 15 mins, or hell even the M52 up to every 10 mins (from 15 min headways). I'd much rather see that happen than have these off-peak short runners.

The 508 curtailed ex M50 trips wont just be off peak ones. They will be the current M50 trips at any time.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Postby Stu » Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:05 pm

^ The remaining service kilometres from the Eastern section of the M50 will remain in Region 6 as per contract which will allow for service growth within Region 6.

The 504 has been undergoing significant growth since 2018, each timetable change in Region 6 since TSA commenced operating R6 has seen an increase of services for route 504, more increases are expected which possibly includes short workings from the City to Allison Park. There are limits to how many buses you can have commencing/terminating at Chiswick or commencing/terminating short at Allison Park. This is why the M50 is beneficial as it only operates as far as Drummoyne. There is no point in adding a new destination display for a short working to and Drummoyne which would just confuse customers.
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