SMH | Green Square is Sydney's 'public transport disaster'

[simonl]

"do" vs "have to". They don't have to, but they do.

[Glen]

"do" vs "have to". They don't have to, but they do.

How would they overtake if they didn't?

Or would you suggest a different timetable?

[simonl]

I'm suggesting to rework the timetable so they don't need to overtake. Move Auburn and Clyde to the south line only. The main downside would be that everything would need to stop at either Lidcome or Granville, or both. Harris Park would be a pain too.

However, it is all doable. You may argue that it isn't worth it. You may even be correct in that argument. But it is possible. Certainly the obsession with sector 2 not messing with sector 3 is misplaced. Sectors 2 & 3 mess with themselves too. Both issues need attention.

[Liamena]

I don't think that segregating the "lines" as such, is necessarily the answer.

What you need to do, is segregate the all-stops trains from the express trains.

If you want to have some all-stops trains from Liverpool to Burwood, or from Blacktown to Burwood, then run those on the southern track pair between Granville and Burwood,

If you want to have express trains running Blacktown,Parramatta, Granville ( maybe ) Strathfield, Central, then run those on the northern track pair between Granville and Strathfield, and you could also have some express trains from the Glenfield-Granville line doing the same.

A solution which says "all western line trains run non-stop, and all south line trains run all-stops", or something like that, isn't necessarily a good suggestion.

[simonl]

Even more important is removing conflicting moves.

I cannot agree with the argument that AM peak inbound Western Line trains should cross at Homebush to avoid Macdonaldtown.crosses. The only conflicting move that saves is against outbound Central Coast and Blue Mountains trains, which should really be formed from Coast via Shore on platform 18 at Central IMO. That eliminates the conflict in another way.

The AM peak outbound cross from the locals to the suburbans is clearly stupid and I cannot believe it was living on at the point of the Sydney Trains Plan, or whichever plan it was.

[Glen]

I'm suggesting to rework the timetable so they don't need to overtake. Move Auburn and Clyde to the south line only. The main downside would be that everything would need to stop at either Lidcome or Granville, or both. Harris Park would be a pain too.

Yes, I’m sure they have looked at such ideas. A pattern of Parramatta, Granville, Strathfield for some trains and Parramatta, Strathfield for the fastest trains would work.

Perhaps Harris Park pax have to go 'backwards' by Cumberland line to Parramatta to then go forwards to the City. Alternatively it is a 1.0km walk.

If you want to have express trains running Blacktown,Parramatta, Granville ( maybe ) Strathfield, Central, then run those on the northern track pair between Granville and Strathfield, and you could also have some express trains from the Glenfield-Granville line doing the same.

Err, no, crossing from the Up South to the Up Main at Granville fouls every track.

Even more important is removing conflicting moves.
I cannot agree with the argument that AM peak inbound Western Line trains should cross at Homebush to avoid Macdonaldtown.crosses. The only conflicting move that saves is against outbound Central Coast trains.....

Not quite right.

Removing the Up Main to Up Suburban crossing at Illawarra Junction removes conflicts with Down Central Coast and Blue Mountains interurbans as well as with Down Country trains.

The corresponding crossing Down Suburban to Down Main at Illawarra Junction conflicts with Up West to Down North Shore trains.

There is no need or benefit in crossing over anything at Illawarra Junction.

[simonl]

Not quite right.

Added a slight correction to include the Mountains trains. Was thinking of them but wrote it slightly wrongly.

There is no need or benefit in crossing over anything at Illawarra Junction.

Not true.

Much of the mains have higher speed limits, largely 90 vs 80 but there is also the 50km/h under the King St bridge at Newtown for the suburbans which are about 80km/h or so on the mains. There would be about 2 minutes travel time difference via the mains vs the suburbans. Locals are even slower.

There is also the factor that for a train not stopping at Strathfield slowing down to 25km/h at Homebush is more of a time waster than doing it at Macdonaldtown because that is closer to a station stop.

Err, no, crossing from the Up South to the Up Main at Granville fouls every track.

There is an alternate way of looking at it, that the ones not crossing are the ones fouling. Before Clearways, that was probably more correct. However, I don't think we should go back to that. *cough* WEX *cough*