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$1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby Swift » Sat May 12, 2018 4:34 pm

BroadGauge wrote:
Swift wrote:Gladys pushes the line of 100% air conditioned fleet with the retirement of the S sets, but that is really a misnomer when comfort levels are no better or worse when you are running a percentage of cars in service with inadequate temperature control or, worse, not running at all.

Try riding on an S set early on a winter's morning. Nothing more fun than sitting in a drafty tin can without any form of heating for an hour when you've forgotten to bring a coat.

What happened to personal responsibility? Oh, it went the way of the dinosaurs evidently.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby boronia » Fri May 18, 2018 4:36 pm

B2 at AMF this afternoon
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby Swift » Fri May 18, 2018 8:48 pm

They built a branch to a bowling alley? :P
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby Tonymercury » Sat May 19, 2018 6:37 am

Swift wrote:They built a branch to a bowling alley? :P


Punchbowl set 2 has been converted to a bowling alley?
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby Stonesourscotty » Sat May 26, 2018 10:49 am

So do we know what routes will run what services post B Introduction as i heard from an English source that the Entire of T1 will only be Waratah operated so where are the Tangara's off to? What lines are we expecting the oscars to go down onto when replaced
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby boronia » Sat May 26, 2018 11:30 am

It has previously been suggested that the Bs will go to T4, based at Mortdale.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby Daniel » Sat May 26, 2018 12:16 pm

boronia wrote:It has previously been suggested that the Bs will go to T4, based at Mortdale.

No longer believed to be occurring.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby mandonov » Sat May 26, 2018 12:42 pm

They decided to maintain the B's at AMC yet continue with the Mortdale upgrade anyway to support general fleet growth.

From the March project update: https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au%2Fsyst ... PexojSWCqt
The new SGT fleet will be maintained and serviced at the Auburn Maintenance Centre. Mortdale Maintenance Centre will continue to be upgraded to enable the maintenance of our expanding train fleets and prepare our network for the future needs of a growing Sydney. Completion of the upgrade works at Mortdale will support the NSW Government’s Medium Term Rail Plan. Downer is delivering the work on behalf of Transport for NSW.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby J_Busworth » Sat May 26, 2018 1:58 pm

I'd suggest that the OSCars will likely go to T4 given they already operate quite a few services there. T1 will probably be exclusively As and Bs which could see Ts cascades over to T2, T3, T5 and T8
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby mandonov » Sat May 26, 2018 3:58 pm

I do wonder what happens post 2024-ish when presumably every set maintained at Flemington is retired. Sell of the land? Use it for a T set replacement? Consolidate operations from Eveleigh and Hornsby?

I just find it odd that if T1 were to be all A/B's then anything maintained at Hornsby would have to dead run for 20km to and from its sector.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby boronia » Sat May 26, 2018 4:56 pm

Regardless of where they are maintained, there will probably still be need for stabling and minor servicing of new trains within the metro area.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby swtt » Sun May 27, 2018 12:26 am

J_Busworth wrote:I'd suggest that the OSCars will likely go to T4 given they already operate quite a few services there. T1 will probably be exclusively As and Bs which could see Ts cascades over to T2, T3, T5 and T8


There aren't enough H sets around to operate the entire T4!

There are only 55x 4 car sets, which makes just 27x 8 car sets, with one 4 car spare.

The current Sector 1 TT already uses at least 28x 8 car T sets. NSW TrainLink also supplies rosters R33, R34, R35 , R37 & R39 on some odd jobs during the day within Sydney Trains territory (Bondi Jn to Hurstville/Mortdale/Waterfall services).

By the time the NIF come in, there will probably be a need to go to 29x 8 car sets. Just the H sets alone won't cut it.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby Frosty » Sun May 27, 2018 5:15 am

Would it be possible for the Sector 2 timetable to be operated by H sets & M sets or is will that still leave a shortfall ?
I can see M sets operate T7 shuttles & T5 trips though.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby GazzaOak » Sun May 27, 2018 9:19 am

They should be diverting most H sets trains to the airport line....
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby Tonymercury » Sun May 27, 2018 10:17 am

GazzaOak wrote:They should be diverting most H sets trains to the airport line....


I'll be the dill, why?
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby andy_centralcoast » Sun May 27, 2018 11:32 am

mandonov wrote:I do wonder what happens post 2024-ish when presumably every set maintained at Flemington is retired. Sell of the land? Use it for a T set replacement? Consolidate operations from Eveleigh and Hornsby?

I just find it odd that if T1 were to be all A/B's then anything maintained at Hornsby would have to dead run for 20km to and from its sector.


Sydney Trains already move many empty trains around the network without passengers. There's even some that run empty between Newcastle and Central, well over 20km. eg run 203

In the current timetable there's a few empty T set runs between Hornsby and Hurstville/Mortdale/Cronulla, eg run 601, 603, 626 and 627.

Then there's others like run 103 which does Hornsby to North Sydney empty at 9am, 125L and 100J empty Schofields to Hornsby at 9am, 106F and 111H empty Blacktown to Hornsby. Run 123 and 197 empty Granville to Hornsby via Chatswood in the morning and empty Epping to Blacktown at night. 164X empty Hornsby to Blacktown.

Imagine how many extra services the government could advertise by converting some of these non revenue runs to passenger services.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby VivalaBuses » Sun May 27, 2018 1:09 pm

Tonymercury wrote:
GazzaOak wrote:They should be diverting most H sets trains to the airport line....


I'll be the dill, why?

I assume its for the luggage racks.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby parraeel » Sun May 27, 2018 2:42 pm

What I've heard is that the B Sets will move to current K Set rosters, and the K Sets will move to S Set rosters.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby Aurora » Sun May 27, 2018 4:13 pm

Yes, from when the B Sets are introduced into passenger service, they will be operating in sector 2.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby Aurora » Sun May 27, 2018 4:16 pm

andy_centralcoast wrote:Sydney Trains already move many empty trains around the network without passengers. There's even some that run empty between Newcastle and Central, well over 20km. eg run 203

In the current timetable there's a few empty T set runs between Hornsby and Hurstville/Mortdale/Cronulla, eg run 601, 603, 626 and 627.

Then there's others like run 103 which does Hornsby to North Sydney empty at 9am, 125L and 100J empty Schofields to Hornsby at 9am, 106F and 111H empty Blacktown to Hornsby. Run 123 and 197 empty Granville to Hornsby via Chatswood in the morning and empty Epping to Blacktown at night. 164X empty Hornsby to Blacktown.
[...]
Imagine how many extra services the government could advertise by converting some of these non revenue runs to passenger services.

Most of those trains run across multiple sectors or non-standard passenger routes. Aligning them to sectorised routes would mean additional resourcing required.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby boronia » Sun May 27, 2018 5:54 pm

VivalaBuses wrote:
Tonymercury wrote:
I'll be the dill, why?

I assume its for the luggage racks.


The "luggage racks" are overhead shelves in the end compartments, really suitable only for hand luggage. Hardly a solution for the airport line.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby Swift » Sun May 27, 2018 11:14 pm

At least the devoted Airport Express buses had some thought put intro there layout by having luggage pens.
Honestly, say what you want about Neville Wran's megalomaniac style, he got Sydney working to a modern standard, with a leg up from Robert Askin. Things at least appeared to continually progress under him.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby Tonymercury » Mon May 28, 2018 5:30 am

boronia wrote:The "luggage racks" are overhead shelves in the end compartments, really suitable only for hand luggage. Hardly a solution for the airport line.



Boronia is right, those who think those racks are useful should try services from the south coast around lunchtime on Saturday when passengers head to Sydney for cruise ship departures, together with large amounts of luggage.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby mandonov » Mon May 28, 2018 2:46 pm

This is why I'm so pleased with the newish luggage racks on V sets that replaced two seats. The other morning into Sydney it was full of luggage instead of the usual which is bags piled on top of seats anyway.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby Swift » Mon May 28, 2018 5:43 pm

mandonov wrote:This is why I'm so pleased with the newish luggage racks on V sets that replaced two seats. The other morning into Sydney it was full of luggage instead of the usual which is bags piled on top of seats anyway.

Is this standard or only selected cars/sets? If latter, is there any indication you are entering a luggage pen equipped carriage?
One thing that concerns new about this otherwise great idea are these feral clientele (assuming they pay) snooping thru the luggage.
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