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Tangara upgrade contract awarded to UGL

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: Tangara upgrade contract awarded to UGL

Postby Swift » Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:27 pm

push button rather than a handle for the inter-car doors

I always liked that way of opening them. I think a button is not as ergonomic.
I noticed the other day how well the Tangas stack up against their later brethren. Thanks to the interior upgrades, I think the average commuter would barely notice the difference over an A set or an Oscar. The M sets might stand out due to their seating and vocal drives.
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Re: Tangara upgrade contract awarded to UGL

Postby Jurassic_Joke » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:45 pm

PaulSEO wrote:
Tangaraupgrade.png


Here is an image of a Tangara Technology upgrade in progress.

Changes I note:

push button rather than a handle for the inter-car doors
change of the saloon seating to fold up for wheelchair access
addition of handrail and help points (incomplete) above the saloon seating, similar to a Waratah
move of help points to the saloon side of the vestibule rather than the upper / lower deck side
red upholstered seating on one side of saloon signifying for aged / disability customers

Here is a good pic of a recently refurbished car for comparison:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Tr ... tibule.jpg

The prototype of the TTU is due this month (October, 2017)


So they're gunna make the Saloon seats significantly less comfortable. Wow. Good one
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - December 2017

Postby Stonesourscotty » Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:28 am

Has the refurbished tangara entered service yet?
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Re: Tangara upgrade contract awarded to UGL

Postby boronia » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:57 pm

Here is a good pic of a recently refurbished car for comparison:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Tr ... tibule.jpg


That appears to be an unrefurbished vestibule, picture is dated 2008.

Have the links changed?
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Re: Tangara upgrade contract awarded to UGL

Postby PaulSEO » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:17 pm

No. That is a refurbished car with yellow poles and monkey bar style hand-holds in the ceiling. The date in the file history says: 09:15, 14 October 2011 so maybe whoever created it in 2008 replaced it later.

Other than this news article about the drivers' desk: http://www.manningrivertimes.com.au/sto ... omination/ there is no update. They have slipped several deadlines, and are now forecasting 2019 completion rather than the July 2018 that the state contracted UGL for. I wish I could miss my work deadlines by that much and still get such a big payday.

I've asked a state MP to follow it up, and they may do a GIPAA (fka FOI) request to see what is going on:

back in August 2015, the Government awarded a contract to UGL Unipart for $131M to upgrade over 400 Tangara train cars. The work was supposed to be completed by July 2018.

To date, they have completed zero, over 2 years later. As far as I know, they are about a year late on even delivering a prototype.

These upgrades included CCTV which is de rigueur in modern trains for passenger safety, as well more accommodations for people with a disability.

As you know, a large part of the rail network is served exclusively by these Tangara trains, i.e. the Illawarra / Eastern Suburbs line, so effectively, passengers using that line are being discriminated against by not having these upgrades completed in a timely manner.

Perhaps you could please ask Minister Constance, or his representative in the Legislative Council, why the delay?
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Re: Tangara upgrade contract awarded to UGL

Postby Jurassic_Joke » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:06 pm

Taking into account they already made the doors (subjectively!) aesthetically uglier and really cheap-looking than what they replaced + sucked out a bit of the Tangara's original character by doing that, I'm not really too hopeful. The prototype picture I saw but is now gone was also ugly, they basically made the vestibule seats even smaller and more cramped + uncomfortable, if they've moved away from that, thats good.

I'm glad they appeared to have backed away from changing the door chimes to what I heard earlier this year (y)

But otherwise, not too pleased this is running substantially late. Tangara's are almost 30 years old as hard as it is to believe (I feel old now!)
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Re: Tangara upgrade contract awarded to UGL

Postby PaulSEO » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:13 pm

Here is the picture again attached:
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Tangaraupgrade.png
Tangaraupgrade.png (252.18 KiB) Viewed 9257 times
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Re: Tangara upgrade contract awarded to UGL

Postby Swift » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:57 pm

The Tangarbages are very future proof trains with updated interiors. They require attention to notice you are in a train older then the M and A sets. Well done Goninan.
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Re: Tangara upgrade contract awarded to UGL

Postby boronia » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:34 pm

PaulSEO wrote:Here is the picture again attached:

This is a different picture to what I got in the link above.
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Re: Tangara upgrade contract awarded to UGL

Postby PaulSEO » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:06 am

https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/lc/pa ... ?pk=238525

2119 - Transport and Infrastructure - TANGARA TRAINS TECHNOLOGY UPGRADE PROJECT
Faruqi, Mehreen to the Minister for Resources, Minister for Energy and Utilities, Minister for Arts, Vice-President of the Executive Council representing the Minister for Transport and Infrastructure
For the Tangara Trains Technology Upgrade project, the completion date on the contract was stated as 29 May 2018. In the September 2017 Fleet Delivery Program newsletter from Transport for NSW, the completion date has been changed to 2019. The newsletter states, "Upgrades are expected to be complete in 2019". Why has there been a delay on this project?
Has there been any change to the project cost, from the original cost of $131 million when the contract was awarded to UGL in 2014?
If yes, how much is the change on cost?
How much of this cost change is due to changes in the delivery timeline, if any?
Is the project cost projected to change before completion?
How many Tangara trains are currently out of the rolling stock?
How many of the Tangara trains are out of the rolling stock due to this change in the delivery timeline?
Who bears the cost of Tangara trains staying out of the rolling stock due to delays in project delivery?
Why has a recommendation from the Waterfall inquiry to install Automatic Train Protection been delayed to this extent on Tangara trains?
When will the Tangara trains upgrade be completed? Please provide a date.
Question asked on 15 March 2018 (session 56-1) and published in Questions & Answers Paper No. 146
No answer has been printed.
Answer due on 19 April 2018.

It would have been good to include: "When will the first train be completed?" as well as the implied question of "when will the last train be completed?" :-)
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Re: Tangara upgrade contract awarded to UGL

Postby Swift » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:50 am

Rhetorical question. Do you think these Liberal dictators will actually answer? At best you can expect a response littered with ambiguous language.
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Re: Tangara upgrade contract awarded to UGL

Postby boronia » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:22 am

Good to see that an MP who aspires to be transport expert is familiar with the relevant terminologies.
How many Tangara trains are currently out of the rolling stock?
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Re: Tangara upgrade contract awarded to UGL

Postby PaulSEO » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:52 am

Being asked a question in Parliament is different to the great unwashed asking a question, so the dictators are obliged to give an answer. Given ultimate responsibility for the answer is from Constance, anything could happen tho.

Mehreen is a civil engineer, so she may have a greater understanding of, or capacity to understand, the terminology than other aspirants.
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Re: Tangara upgrade contract awarded to UGL

Postby boronia » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:57 pm

I think I have seen comments from her about the "sale" of buses, and the "too wide" trains.
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Re: Tangara upgrade contract awarded to UGL

Postby hornetfig » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:32 pm

boronia wrote:Good to see that an MP who aspires to be transport expert is familiar with the relevant terminologies.
How many Tangara trains are currently out of the rolling stock?


What's a "Tangara train"?

And does rolling stock cease to be rolling stock when it's booked out for heavy maintenance?
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Re: Tangara upgrade contract awarded to UGL

Postby Fleet Lists » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:08 pm

http://www.busaustralia.com/gallery/dis ... ?pos=-8104
http://www.busaustralia.com/gallery/dis ... pos=-13895
Any T trains is a Tangara - normally the only trains on T4 but also operate on others as as well.
A strange point to be asking this question as this thread with Tangara in the heading has been going for some years now.
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Re: Tangara upgrade contract awarded to UGL

Postby mandonov » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:42 pm

He's making fun of the MP's phrasing.
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Re: Tangara upgrade contract awarded to UGL

Postby PaulSEO » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:35 pm

Here is the "answer" to the question. It's absolutely pathetic and doesn't answer any of the points raised. Constance is hopeless and will be a major factor in Berejyklian's government going down in a years time.

Answer -
I am advised :

As the Member will be aware, Labor was in power when the Waterfall disaster happened, but in the 7 years after the disaster, Labor did nothing to roll out Automatic Train Protection across the network

When this Government came to power it moved as quickly as possible to start to deliver on the Waterfall recommendations. Following the completion of a technology trial in 2014, a decision was made to revise the type of technology being proposed to be rolled out to better respond to the project requirements and to respond to technological advances in the intervening period.

Transport for NSW continues to work with its contractors to ensure that the Tangara Technology Upgrade and Automatic Train Protection is rolled out across the network as quickly as possible.

Question asked on 15 March 2018 (session 56-1) and published in Questions & Answers Paper No. 146
Answer received on 19 April 2018 and to be printed in a Questions & Answers Paper on 1 May 2018
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Re: Tangara upgrade contract awarded to UGL

Postby andy_centralcoast » Mon May 28, 2018 10:42 pm

A $131 million upgrade to 446 Tangara carriages – or 55 trains - contracted to be completed on Tuesday has blown out by at least six months.

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/state/n ... a-upgrade/
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - July to December 2018

Postby mandonov » Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:09 pm

Any updates on the T Set upgrade?
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Re: Tangara upgrade contract awarded to UGL

Postby Stonesourscotty » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:54 pm

There seems to be 3 Tangaras stabled at Auburn for the last week anyone know why?
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Re: Tangara upgrade contract awarded to UGL

Postby boronia » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:30 am

Off track: Overdue Sydney train upgrade has no finish date

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/state/nsw/2019/01/22/tangara-train-sydney-finish-date/
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Re: Tangara upgrade contract awarded to UGL

Postby PaulSEO » Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:09 am

That journalist, Rachel Eddie, is a good one. It's a shame that the bigger media aren't on this story.

I love this bit: In its FOI decision, the information unit claimed it was in the public interest to not reveal a revised completion date because it could prejudice the government agency and business interests.

Whichever party promises never to use the "commercial in confidence" shield gets my vote. I'm a tax payer, it's my money, I've a right to know what's happening with it.
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Re: Tangara upgrade contract awarded to UGL

Postby Swift » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:05 pm

Disregarding a law that's supposed to uphold transparency smacks of dictatorship to me, something that's the typical modus operandi of a Liberal National coalition government that has been in too long. They despise transparency and democratic values in general. It's a giant inconvenience to them.
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Re: Tangara upgrade contract awarded to UGL

Postby mrbean3000 » Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:40 pm

Its been revealed today that Tangara upgrades due in May last year, might not be finished until 2021.
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