Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

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Merc1107
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by Merc1107 »

A fairly minor change that I'd like to see would be removing the fairly pointless loop of Weber Reserve, Willagee (Weber, Arkwell, Steel & Hodge Sts.) on the 160 service and instead travelling directly between Stock Rd. and Lucas St. via Boon St. While the two stops that would be lost are fairly well-used by passengers, it could be argued these passengers could be accomodated by the nearby 502 service instead, which operates to a similar or slightly better span and frequency. This small alteration would save a several minutes on each service, making for a faster journey on what is often a service with a distinct lack of punctuality.

While it's been some time since I did the calculations, in terms of kilometres alone, the resources saved would be great enough to extend several 150s into Willagee (e.g. better-align PM peak services to the frequency of AM peak services) or perhaps make some modest upgrades to the 502's weekend service.

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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by Bus Suggestions »

Time to start on a large 'master plan' for every single bus service in Perth! I'll release this in chunks over a few months, and at the end, as a downloadable PDF file. Welcome to the PERTHMET Bus Master Plan! I released a 'pre-release' version a while ago, but this is the full thing! The Master Plan also standardises the route numbering scheme, with specific blocks for each geographical area (Northern, eastern, south-eastern, southern, western). Without further ado, here we go:

CAT Services (Routes 1-14)
Description
CAT services are free services operating in loops around metropolitan centres.

Perth CAT
1: Perth Blue CAT
2: Perth Red CAT
002: Perth Red CAT – West Perth Loop
3: Perth Yellow CAT
4: Perth Red CAT – Peak Hour Loop
5: Perth Green CAT

Fremantle CAT
6: Fremantle Red CAT
7: Fremantle Blue CAT
New Route 8: Fremantle Yellow CAT
From Stop 1 Fremantle Station, R Queen St, L High St, R Hampton Rd, R Wray Ave, continue straight to Howard St, R Marine Tce, R Cliff St, L Phillimore St, U-Turn at Maritime Museum, L Phillimore St to terminate at Stop 1 Fremantle Station.

Joondalup CAT
10: Joondalup Red CAT
11: Joondalup Blue CAT
13: Joondalup Yellow CAT

Inner-City Services (Routes 15-99)
Description
Inner-City routes are categorised together for the purpose of this review; however, these routes will be further sub-categorised by the geographical service areas in operation. Inner-city routes have their termini in, or within 5 kilometres of zone 1.

Routes
15
Time changes.

19
Timing changes to better connect with the 354 at Dog Swamp Shopping Centre.

20
Timing changes to better connect with the 406 at ECU Mt Lawley.

23
Time changes.

24
Extra trips and time changes.

25
Minor Re-route: Same route to Monash Ave, then R Smyth Rd, with Williams Rd timing point relocated to new stop at Smyth Rd/Karella St.

27-30
Time changes.

31
Minor reroute in South Perth to provide better catchment area.
From Perth: Current route to Labouchere Rd, then L South Tce, R Coode St, L Thelma St to resume current route.
To Perth: Current route to Thelma St, then R Coode, L South Tce to resume current route.

32
Minor reroute in Como and extension to Applecross, providing an extended service through Como.
From Perth: Current route to Coode St, then R Preston St, L Melville Pde, R Mary St, L Henley St, R Canning Hwy through Canning Bridge Stn, then R Canning Beach Rd, L Kintail Rd to terminate at Kintail Rd before Moreau Mews. U-Turn to start route back.
To Perth: From a terminus at Kintail Rd before Canning Hwy, R Canning Beach Rd, L Canning Hwy through Canning Bridge Stn, then L Henley St, R Mary St, L Melville Pde, R Preston St, L Coode St to resume current route to Perth.

33 & 34
Time changes.

35
Reroute in South Perth to provide a service for the South Perth Esplanade.
From Perth: From Elizabeth Quay Bus Station, Mill St exit, L Mounts Bay Rd, L Riverside Dr, L Kwinana Fwy, L Mill Point Rd, L Mends St, L South Perth Esplanade, L Queen St, R Mill Point Rd, L the Old Mill.
To Perth: From the Old Mill, R Mill Point Rd, L Queen St, R South Perth Esplanade, R Mends St, R Mill Point Rd, continue straight to Kwinana Fwy and resume current route to Perth.

36
Time changes.

38
Reroute in Belmont to cover rerouted route 39.
From Perth: Current route to Orrong Rd, then continue straight, L Oats St, continue straight to Gabriel St, L Belmont Ave, R Wright St to resume current route to Cloverdale.
To Perth: Current Route to Wright St, then L Belmont Ave, R Gabriel St, continue straight to Oats St, R Orrong Rd, L Archer St to resume current route to Perth.
Passengers along Wright St can instead catch routes 288, 298, 998, 999 or new high frequency route 935; 900-series High Frequency Services will be released at a future date.

39
Reroute in Kewdale and extension to cover withdrawn route 284 (161-259: Armadale & South-Eastern Services to be released at a future date).
From Perth: Current route to Star St, then R Kew St, L Orrong Rd, R President St, L Acton Ave, R Scott St to resume current route to Grand Pde, then R Epsom Ave, R Victoria St, R Morrison St to terminate at Morrison St near Smiths Ave.
To Perth: From Morrison St near Smiths Ave, L Victoria St, L Epsom Ave, L Grand Pde to resume current route to Scott St, then L Acton Ave, R President St, L Orrong Rd, R Kew St, R Star St and continue straight to resume current route to Perth.
Passengers along Oats Street can instead catch a rerouted route 38 or routes 285, 998 and 999.

40
Upgrade to limited stops. Extended operating hours to run from 4:30 am to 1:30 am on weekdays, 6:30 to 12:40 on Saturdays and 7:00 to 12:00 on Sundays and Public Holidays.

41
Frequency change: From Perth weekdays – Half-hourly 06:25 to 14:25, then 15 mins 14:25 to 17:25, and half-hourly 17:25 to 22:25. To Perth weekdays – Half-hourly 05:55 to 06:55, then 15 mins 06:55 to 08:55, then half-hourly 09:55 to 21:55 to interchange with 42 services. Weekends: No change.

42
Frequency change: From Perth weekdays – Half-hourly 06:55 to 14:55, then 15 mins 14:55 to 17:55, and half-hourly 17:55 to 22:55. To Perth weekdays – Half-hourly 06:15 to 07:15, then 15 mins 07:15 to 09:15, then half-hourly 09:15 to 22:15 to interchange with 41 services. Weekends: No change.

48
Timing changes.

55
Renumber to 47 to keep numbering consistent, with timing changes.

66
Convert to full-length express route 616; see Express Services below.

67
Time changes.

68
Reroute in Dianella, covering old 888 route prior to moving to Dianella Dr.
From Perth: Current route to The Strand, then R Alexander Dr, L Yirrigan Dr, R Northwood Dr to resume current route to Mirrabooka.
To Perth: Current route to Northwood Dr, then L Yirrigan Dr, R Alexander Dr, L The Strand to resume current route to Perth.

72
Time changes.

75
Service renumbered to route 209, keeping in-line with the route numbering system, curtailing the route to run from Curtin Central to Canning Vale and transferred to Canning Contract to utilise Canning Vale Depot.

81-85
Time changes.

96
Time changes to connect with light rail at QEII and UWA South.

97
Time changes to connect with light rail at QEII.
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pasha241
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by pasha241 »

Bus Suggestions wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 10:18 am
Time to start on a large 'master plan' for every single bus service in Perth! I'll release this in chunks over a few months, and at the end, as a downloadable PDF file. Welcome to the PERTHMET Bus Master Plan! I released a 'pre-release' version a while ago, but this is the full thing! The Master Plan also standardises the route numbering scheme, with specific blocks for each geographical area (Northern, eastern, south-eastern, southern, western). Without further ado, here we go:

CAT Services (Routes 1-14)
Description
CAT services are free services operating in loops around metropolitan centres.

Perth CAT
1: Perth Blue CAT
2: Perth Red CAT
002: Perth Red CAT – West Perth Loop
3: Perth Yellow CAT
4: Perth Red CAT – Peak Hour Loop
5: Perth Green CAT

Fremantle CAT
6: Fremantle Red CAT
7: Fremantle Blue CAT
New Route 8: Fremantle Yellow CAT
From Stop 1 Fremantle Station, R Queen St, L High St, R Hampton Rd, R Wray Ave, continue straight to Howard St, R Marine Tce, R Cliff St, L Phillimore St, U-Turn at Maritime Museum, L Phillimore St to terminate at Stop 1 Fremantle Station.

Joondalup CAT
10: Joondalup Red CAT
11: Joondalup Blue CAT
13: Joondalup Yellow CAT

Inner-City Services (Routes 15-99)
Description
Inner-City routes are categorised together for the purpose of this review; however, these routes will be further sub-categorised by the geographical service areas in operation. Inner-city routes have their termini in, or within 5 kilometres of zone 1.

Routes
15
Time changes.

19
Timing changes to better connect with the 354 at Dog Swamp Shopping Centre.

20
Timing changes to better connect with the 406 at ECU Mt Lawley.

23
Time changes.

24
Extra trips and time changes.

25
Minor Re-route: Same route to Monash Ave, then R Smyth Rd, with Williams Rd timing point relocated to new stop at Smyth Rd/Karella St.

27-30
Time changes.

31
Minor reroute in South Perth to provide better catchment area.
From Perth: Current route to Labouchere Rd, then L South Tce, R Coode St, L Thelma St to resume current route.
To Perth: Current route to Thelma St, then R Coode, L South Tce to resume current route.

32
Minor reroute in Como and extension to Applecross, providing an extended service through Como.
From Perth: Current route to Coode St, then R Preston St, L Melville Pde, R Mary St, L Henley St, R Canning Hwy through Canning Bridge Stn, then R Canning Beach Rd, L Kintail Rd to terminate at Kintail Rd before Moreau Mews. U-Turn to start route back.
To Perth: From a terminus at Kintail Rd before Canning Hwy, R Canning Beach Rd, L Canning Hwy through Canning Bridge Stn, then L Henley St, R Mary St, L Melville Pde, R Preston St, L Coode St to resume current route to Perth.

33 & 34
Time changes.

35
Reroute in South Perth to provide a service for the South Perth Esplanade.
From Perth: From Elizabeth Quay Bus Station, Mill St exit, L Mounts Bay Rd, L Riverside Dr, L Kwinana Fwy, L Mill Point Rd, L Mends St, L South Perth Esplanade, L Queen St, R Mill Point Rd, L the Old Mill.
To Perth: From the Old Mill, R Mill Point Rd, L Queen St, R South Perth Esplanade, R Mends St, R Mill Point Rd, continue straight to Kwinana Fwy and resume current route to Perth.

36
Time changes.

38
Reroute in Belmont to cover rerouted route 39.
From Perth: Current route to Orrong Rd, then continue straight, L Oats St, continue straight to Gabriel St, L Belmont Ave, R Wright St to resume current route to Cloverdale.
To Perth: Current Route to Wright St, then L Belmont Ave, R Gabriel St, continue straight to Oats St, R Orrong Rd, L Archer St to resume current route to Perth.
Passengers along Wright St can instead catch routes 288, 298, 998, 999 or new high frequency route 935; 900-series High Frequency Services will be released at a future date.

39
Reroute in Kewdale and extension to cover withdrawn route 284 (161-259: Armadale & South-Eastern Services to be released at a future date).
From Perth: Current route to Star St, then R Kew St, L Orrong Rd, R President St, L Acton Ave, R Scott St to resume current route to Grand Pde, then R Epsom Ave, R Victoria St, R Morrison St to terminate at Morrison St near Smiths Ave.
To Perth: From Morrison St near Smiths Ave, L Victoria St, L Epsom Ave, L Grand Pde to resume current route to Scott St, then L Acton Ave, R President St, L Orrong Rd, R Kew St, R Star St and continue straight to resume current route to Perth.
Passengers along Oats Street can instead catch a rerouted route 38 or routes 285, 998 and 999.

40
Upgrade to limited stops. Extended operating hours to run from 4:30 am to 1:30 am on weekdays, 6:30 to 12:40 on Saturdays and 7:00 to 12:00 on Sundays and Public Holidays.

41
Frequency change: From Perth weekdays – Half-hourly 06:25 to 14:25, then 15 mins 14:25 to 17:25, and half-hourly 17:25 to 22:25. To Perth weekdays – Half-hourly 05:55 to 06:55, then 15 mins 06:55 to 08:55, then half-hourly 09:55 to 21:55 to interchange with 42 services. Weekends: No change.

42
Frequency change: From Perth weekdays – Half-hourly 06:55 to 14:55, then 15 mins 14:55 to 17:55, and half-hourly 17:55 to 22:55. To Perth weekdays – Half-hourly 06:15 to 07:15, then 15 mins 07:15 to 09:15, then half-hourly 09:15 to 22:15 to interchange with 41 services. Weekends: No change.

48
Timing changes.

55
Renumber to 47 to keep numbering consistent, with timing changes.

66
Convert to full-length express route 616; see Express Services below.

67
Time changes.

68
Reroute in Dianella, covering old 888 route prior to moving to Dianella Dr.
From Perth: Current route to The Strand, then R Alexander Dr, L Yirrigan Dr, R Northwood Dr to resume current route to Mirrabooka.
To Perth: Current route to Northwood Dr, then L Yirrigan Dr, R Alexander Dr, L The Strand to resume current route to Perth.

72
Time changes.

75
Service renumbered to route 209, keeping in-line with the route numbering system, curtailing the route to run from Curtin Central to Canning Vale and transferred to Canning Contract to utilise Canning Vale Depot.

81-85
Time changes.

96
Time changes to connect with light rail at QEII and UWA South.

97
Time changes to connect with light rail at QEII.
For me for 38 i like to remove it and replace it with 288 new route. 288 will change route at cloverdale via 38 route

also for 72 i would like to make all service to cannington while 75 is run hourly on sunday.

also for 66 i think the start of express service should not start from Elizabeth quay but should start from Northbridge art centre stop or perth station stops for at least the route get more passangers and also most of Morley contract route that terminates at Elizabeth quay the main point where passangers get off at city is at Perth stn or william st not really at Elizabeth Quay
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Merc1107
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by Merc1107 »

Points I like:
I like the idea of the 41 & 42 receiving frequency upgrades. The few times I've been on weekday, daytime 42s, they were always very busy leaving Perth (seated load), with many passengers not alighting until close to the end of the trip. I've wondered for a long time why the 42, in particular, has avoided even inter-peak service improvements.

Likewise, extending the 35 to perhaps tie up with the ferry isn't a bad idea either - although I must admit, the service probably needs to run further into South Perth to make it worthwhile, which introduces other problems. Not sure of the logistics of doing so, but providing bus-only access to the freeway at the Old Mill would seem like the best way to solve the issues in that area, as you'd then have the 30, 31 and 34 all providing a high frequency of service, and access to other points of interest around South Perth and the Perth CBD.
I have this other crazy idea of a contraflow bus-lane & bridge being installed in the existing southbound freeway lane when Canning Highway buses eventually cease operating on the freeway... Probably too optimistic - this is Perth, after all.

Other general thoughts:
Is there any reasoning behind renumbering routes e.g. from 55 to 47 or 75 to 209 aside from fitting some 'theme?' I don't happen to agree with changing numbers just because it suits somebody at the time. When the 88x series routes were renumbered, the reasoning given was along the lines of, 'oh it saves confusion with regional routes.' Now who in their right mind would associate the former Perth-Munster 881 route with wherever they've reused that number in the regions? Thanks to Transperth's uncanny ability to not communicate service changes particularly effectively, it only resulted in frustrated passengers who didn't know what the 940 and 881 had been renumbered to.
Similarly, the 900-series routes are another area - eventually I assume a lot of routes in the inner-city will run at frequencies and spans that would justify being renumbered, but will we have enough numbers left by then? Do people really care what number the bus it is, when they know one will turn up soon?

pasha241 wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 10:47 am
also for 66 i think the start of express service should not start from Elizabeth quay but should start from Northbridge art centre stop or perth station stops for at least the route get more passangers
The EQ terminus provides layover space, amenities for the driver and ability to transfer from other bus services. What benefit would not using EQ have? Assuming you start near William St., you're still going to pick up passengers at all the compulsory stops, anyway.

I'll be interested to see what Bus Suggestions's idea for the 66 is. However, I must admit, my opinion of the service is it is useful as a niche service in the peak, and should probably be altered to reflect the fact it is supposed to offer Morley-bound passengers a quicker journey - remove the timing points and maybe more of the stops, as I don't think there are journey time savings to be had for at least half the route.

It is also my understanding the 32 was extended to Booragoon on a trial basis around the turn of the millennium. I think that would be a more useful place to send an extended 32 than the first stop on Kintail Road, one would hope the extension might work out a bit better this time :mrgreen:

pasha241
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by pasha241 »

Merc1107 wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 3:14 am
Points I like:
I like the idea of the 41 & 42 receiving frequency upgrades. The few times I've been on weekday, daytime 42s, they were always very busy leaving Perth (seated load), with many passengers not alighting until close to the end of the trip. I've wondered for a long time why the 42, in particular, has avoided even inter-peak service improvements.

Likewise, extending the 35 to perhaps tie up with the ferry isn't a bad idea either - although I must admit, the service probably needs to run further into South Perth to make it worthwhile, which introduces other problems. Not sure of the logistics of doing so, but providing bus-only access to the freeway at the Old Mill would seem like the best way to solve the issues in that area, as you'd then have the 30, 31 and 34 all providing a high frequency of service, and access to other points of interest around South Perth and the Perth CBD.
I have this other crazy idea of a contraflow bus-lane & bridge being installed in the existing southbound freeway lane when Canning Highway buses eventually cease operating on the freeway... Probably too optimistic - this is Perth, after all.

Other general thoughts:
Is there any reasoning behind renumbering routes e.g. from 55 to 47 or 75 to 209 aside from fitting some 'theme?' I don't happen to agree with changing numbers just because it suits somebody at the time. When the 88x series routes were renumbered, the reasoning given was along the lines of, 'oh it saves confusion with regional routes.' Now who in their right mind would associate the former Perth-Munster 881 route with wherever they've reused that number in the regions? Thanks to Transperth's uncanny ability to not communicate service changes particularly effectively, it only resulted in frustrated passengers who didn't know what the 940 and 881 had been renumbered to.
Similarly, the 900-series routes are another area - eventually I assume a lot of routes in the inner-city will run at frequencies and spans that would justify being renumbered, but will we have enough numbers left by then? Do people really care what number the bus it is, when they know one will turn up soon?

pasha241 wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 10:47 am
also for 66 i think the start of express service should not start from Elizabeth quay but should start from Northbridge art centre stop or perth station stops for at least the route get more passangers
The EQ terminus provides layover space, amenities for the driver and ability to transfer from other bus services. What benefit would not using EQ have? Assuming you start near William St., you're still going to pick up passengers at all the compulsory stops, anyway.

Sorry my bad language. i mean not shorting the route from elizabeth quay to terminates at Perth stn or northbridge. But make it all stops from Current Elizabeth Quay to Northbridge like current 66 not just straight run non stop from Elizabeth Quay to Morley.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by Merc1107 »

pasha241 wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 3:25 am
Sorry my bad language. i mean not shorting the route from elizabeth quay to terminates at Perth stn or northbridge. But make it all stops from Current Elizabeth Quay to Northbridge like current 66 not just straight run non stop from Elizabeth Quay to Morley.
Right, sorry for misinterpreting you then :)
That would be a sensible approach, versus say the 16 where I think it's fairly obvious moving that to Perth Busport was a very deliberate choice to sabotage the service and justify culling it altogether.

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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by esperanceguy47 »

Once and for all, lose the 66, or at least re-route it along the old 16 route, giving a (limited) bus service back to the old folks home at the top of Wood St in Inglewood.
Formerly known as 'esperanceguy' until I was accidentally banned :roll: , and then reinstated, at the end of July 2019

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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by Bus Suggestions »

Merc1107 wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 3:14 am
Other general thoughts:
Is there any reasoning behind renumbering routes e.g. from 55 to 47 or 75 to 209 aside from fitting some 'theme?' I don't happen to agree with changing numbers just because it suits somebody at the time. When the 88x series routes were renumbered, the reasoning given was along the lines of, 'oh it saves confusion with regional routes.' Now who in their right mind would associate the former Perth-Munster 881 route with wherever they've reused that number in the regions? Thanks to Transperth's uncanny ability to not communicate service changes particularly effectively, it only resulted in frustrated passengers who didn't know what the 940 and 881 had been renumbered to.
Similarly, the 900-series routes are another area - eventually I assume a lot of routes in the inner-city will run at frequencies and spans that would justify being renumbered, but will we have enough numbers left by then? Do people really care what number the bus it is, when they know one will turn up soon?
Well then, I'll be sure to stick a pamphlet dispenser at every stop. I personally find it annoying with odd route numbers, such as the 881, which never really seemed to fit. The 920 and 940 never stuck out as being odd to me, though, I wouldn't mind if those numbers stuck around for longer. But if it doesn't work for you, feel free to give it whatever route number you'd like :P
pasha241 wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 10:47 am
also for 66 i think the start of express service should not start from Elizabeth quay but should start from Northbridge art centre stop or perth station stops for at least the route get more passangers
Actually, I think that's a sensible idea. To get the most CBD workers or the most CBD coverage for people living in Morley.
Merc1107 wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 3:14 am
It is also my understanding the 32 was extended to Booragoon on a trial basis around the turn of the millennium. I think that would be a more useful place to send an extended 32 than the first stop on Kintail Road, one would hope the extension might work out a bit better this time :mrgreen:
Maybe an oldie (excuse my wording) could shed some light on this? The earliest timetable I've found online (dated 30 Jan 2000) lists the 32 as West Perth-Como. The timetable also has an old 103 (Fremantle-Salter Pt) and 104 (Freo-Salter Pt via Coode St). If anyone could shed light on those routes, maybe in the obscure/forgotten services thread? Fremantle 2 - P1, 30.01.00
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by Bus Suggestions »

esperanceguy47 wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 12:49 pm
Once and for all, lose the 66, or at least re-route it along the old 16 route, giving a (limited) bus service back to the old folks home at the top of Wood St in Inglewood.
I am now sceptical as to whether or not I made the right call. Perhaps an occasional deviation of the 60 would work there.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by shinjiman »

Bus Suggestions wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 10:18 am
19
Timing changes to better connect with the 354 at Dog Swamp Shopping Centre.
I think I've got another idea regarding to the northern suburbs a bit.

Route 405
Converting and renumbering from the current 354 service, extend it from Yokine to Glendalough Station via Green Street.
  • To Glendalough: Current 354 route until Flinders Street, then continue Wiluna Street, L Charles Street, R Green Street, R Scarborough Beach Road, L into Glendalough Station Terminus.
  • To Mirrabooka: From Glendalough Station Terminus, R Scarborough Beach Road, L Green Street, L Charles Street, R Wiluna Street, S Flinders Street and continue with current 354 route.
Route 435
Selected route 387 trips will be converted to route 435 (route 387 will retained for peak hours trips only), running between Warwick Station to Mirrabooka Bus Station via current route 387 until Primewest Northlands, then Amelia Street, Ravenswood and Yirrigan Drives. Those travel between those two locations (between Hamersley/Balcatta and Wanneroo Road south of Northlands) along route 387 can do the transfer at Northlands outside peak times and weekends (435F→388T/389T and 388F/389F→435T).
  • To Mirrabooka: Current 387 route until Wanneroo Road, then L Amelia Street, S Ravenswood Drive, S Yirrigan Drive, L Chestfield Road, R into Mirrabooka Bus Station.
  • To Warwick: From Mirrabooka Bus Station, L Chestfield Road, R Yirragan Drive, S Ravenswood Drive, S Amelia Street, R Wanneroo Road and continue with current 387 route.
Route 370, 374 and 970
Time changes to incorporate with the route 405 changes.

Route 415
Time changes to incorporate with the route 435 changes.
Last edited by shinjiman on Sat May 30, 2020 2:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by In Transit »

Bus Suggestions wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 2:20 am
Merc1107 wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 3:14 am
It is also my understanding the 32 was extended to Booragoon on a trial basis around the turn of the millennium. I think that would be a more useful place to send an extended 32 than the first stop on Kintail Road, one would hope the extension might work out a bit better this time :mrgreen:
Maybe an oldie (excuse my wording) could shed some light on this? The earliest timetable I've found online (dated 30 Jan 2000) lists the 32 as West Perth-Como. The timetable also has an old 103 (Fremantle-Salter Pt) and 104 (Freo-Salter Pt via Coode St). If anyone could shed light on those routes, maybe in the obscure/forgotten services thread? Fremantle 2 - P1, 30.01.00
Haha... not convinced that I’m an “oldie”... but I was responsible for extending the 32 to Booragoon. It didn’t last long, and was probably about 2001 or so. It probably wasn’t helped by only being every second trip (so an hourly frequency) and was only during the middle of day - but we had limited funding and couldn’t cost any peak buses, so that was the only option. The intent was to enable shoppers to get to Booragoon, but the demand proved to be very low. Good intentions - but one of those ideas that didn’t work out.

The 103 was the current 31, joined with the current 103 through to Fremantle, whilst the 104 was an after hours (evenings and weekends) route which combined the 32 and 103. In those days there were a lot of after hours routes that combined two or more routes. Until 1999 (and for about a decade prior) the 32 also ran through to Fremantle via Stirling Hwy as the 102 - trips from Fremantle alternated between 102s and 103s with 104s after hours - which helps explain why the 104 still replaced the 32 after hours in your timetable. Through services (routes operating across the CBD) such as these were another common feature of services until the early 2000s.

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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by pasha241 »

i had some brilliant and weird idea changing for northern suburb service

960 New Version (Curtin - Warwick via Perth City)
  • These route will change to (Curtin - Warwick) from (Curtin - Mirrabooka)
  • The route Travel Via
    From Curtin: Via 960 normal route until Fitzgeral St, L Walcott St, R Wanneroo Rd, L Amelia St, R Jones St, L Delawney St, R Erindale Rd, L Beach Rd, R Warwick Stn
    to Curtin: Via L Beach Rd, R Erindale Rd, L Delawyney St, R Jones St, L Amelia st, R Wanneroo Rd, L Walcott St, R Fitzgerald St, resume via 960 normal route
  • however not all trip will start/terminates at Warwick. Some trip will terminates at Dog Swamp
  • The Frequency will be similar with current 960 route:
    Peak: 5 min/10 inter peak (curtin - yokine), 15 / 20 min (Yokine - Warwick)
    Off peak: 10 min (curtin - yokine), 20 min/30 min (Yokine - warwick) (depent on the patronage)
    Night: 30 min full route
    Weekend: 15 min (curitn - yokine), 30 min (Yokine - Warwick)
  • Route 960 will replace 387, 388 and some 384 trip
  • New route 364 (Perth - Mirrabooka) will replace 960 with similar Frequency
  • As a result service from Perth to ECU will decrease frequency
  • The reason behind these change are to make easy passengers from South of River (Vic Park) to North of River (Wanneroo Rd, Balcatta area)
  • Also why these route use Fitzgerald and walcott not Charles is because we want to connect passengers around Fitzgerald St to Wanneroo Rd area (also charles st already had 970 which is high frequency)
  • Also we try to make adjust connection transfer time between 364 and 960 at busport for people that will affect these changes.
  • also after these change the gap frequency between Perth - Wanneroo Rd will change a bit:
  • As a result of these changes, service of these bus will operated by: Path Transit (Welshpool Depot, Redcliffe depot (peak only), SWan Transit (Karrinyup Depot, Joondalup & beenyup depot (peak only).
    364 Perth - Mirrabooka (Via Alexander Drive) (ex 888 route)
    • These route will replace 960 of Perth - Mirrabooka
    • The Frequency will be similar with current 960 route (Perth - Mirrabooka):
      Peak: 15 / 20 min
      Off peak: 20 min
      Night & weekend : 30 min full route

      384 Perth - Mirrabooka (Via Wanneroo Rd & Nollamara)
      • These route will decrease frequency on Weekend from 30 to 60 min
      • Service that withdrawn will replace by 960 (perth - wanneroo) and new 435 (Nollamara - Mirrabooka)
        435 Warwick - Mirrabooka (Via Wanneroo Rd & Nollamara) (as shinjiman said)
        • These route will replace 387 from Warwick to Balcatta and withdrawn trips of 384 (Nollamara to Mirrabooka)
        • These route will travel from Warwick via 387 route until Wanneroo rd, L Nollamara Av then follow 384 Route until Flinders st, R Lewes Rd, L Windchelsea Rd, R Roberbridge Rd, L Nollamara Av then continued to Mirrabooka via 970 route and vice versa
        • Frequency will be: off peak, weekend; 60 minutes, peak: 20 minutes
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          Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

          Post by Bus Suggestions »

          pasha241 wrote:
          Fri May 29, 2020 9:42 am
          i had some brilliant and weird idea changing for northern suburb service

          960 New Version (Curtin - Warwick via Perth City)
          • These route will change to (Curtin - Warwick) from (Curtin - Mirrabooka)
          • The route Travel Via
            From Curtin: Via 960 normal route until Fitzgeral St, L Walcott St, R Wanneroo Rd, L Amelia St, R Jones St, L Delawney St, R Erindale Rd, L Beach Rd, R Warwick Stn
            to Curtin: Via L Beach Rd, R Erindale Rd, L Delawyney St, R Jones St, L Amelia st, R Wanneroo Rd, L Walcott St, R Fitzgerald St, resume via 960 normal route
          • however not all trip will start/terminates at Warwick. Some trip will terminates at Dog Swamp
          • The Frequency will be similar with current 960 route:
            Peak: 5 min/10 inter peak (curtin - yokine), 15 / 20 min (Yokine - Warwick)
            Off peak: 10 min (curtin - yokine), 20 min/30 min (Yokine - warwick) (depent on the patronage)
            Night: 30 min full route
            Weekend: 15 min (curitn - yokine), 30 min (Yokine - Warwick)
          • Route 960 will replace 387, 388 and some 384 trip
          • New route 364 (Perth - Mirrabooka) will replace 960 with similar Frequency
          • As a result service from Perth to ECU will decrease frequency
          • The reason behind these change are to make easy passengers from South of River (Vic Park) to North of River (Wanneroo Rd, Balcatta area)
          • Also why these route use Fitzgerald and walcott not Charles is because we want to connect passengers around Fitzgerald St to Wanneroo Rd area (also charles st already had 970 which is high frequency)
          • Also we try to make adjust connection transfer time between 364 and 960 at busport for people that will affect these changes.
          • also after these change the gap frequency between Perth - Wanneroo Rd will change a bit:
          • As a result of these changes, service of these bus will operated by: Path Transit (Welshpool Depot, Redcliffe depot (peak only), SWan Transit (Karrinyup Depot, Joondalup & beenyup depot (peak only).
          As much as I would adore such a frequent service, I think it's unnecessary. As I've heard, the 960 is busy as it is on the current route. Would there be more or less demand for such a service down Wanneroo Rd? As far as I'm concerned, this could cannibalise itself. The frequency of the combined 38x Wanneroo Rd trunk already makes for something comparable to a 900-series route. It would be much more useful to consolidate, say, the 388 and 389 into one 900-series route rather than plonk one down an already frequent trunk. As far as I've seen, the 414 along Amelia St is fairly low-demand. It would probably then be more useful to send it down Wanneroo Rd past Amelia St, as that's where the frequency drops substantially.

          The main use of the 387 is delivering workers down Balcatta Rd (as a regular 387 user, I've seen it is used quite well) and students through Hamersley (which it also gathers some patronage from). Your 960 doesn't quite do that. Walcott St, I'd expect, is also low-demand from the city, as the 374 that used to go down there was withdrawn. In terms of delivering SOR passengers NOR, the current 960 does it pretty well. I fail to see the amount of people that would be SOR using it to get to Warwick (I think one of the sources for 960 patronage is SOR ECU students being taken to Mt Lawley).
          pasha241 wrote:
          Fri May 29, 2020 9:42 am
          364 Perth - Mirrabooka (Via Alexander Drive) (ex 888 route)
          • These route will replace 960 of Perth - Mirrabooka
          • The Frequency will be similar with current 960 route (Perth - Mirrabooka):
            Peak: 15 / 20 min
            Off peak: 20 min
            Night & weekend : 30 min full route
          This would only exist if the 960 were re-routed. As a standalone service, I don't think it would fare too well without being connected to the Curtin leg of the 960.

          So, in all, I don't think I'm too fond of this. Again, I adore a 900-series service down Wanneroo Rd, but to cannibalise a different high-demand trunk is not ideal.
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          Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

          Post by Bus Suggestions »

          shinjiman wrote:
          Fri May 29, 2020 4:04 am
          Route 405
          Converting and renumbering from the current 354 service, extend it from Yokine to Glendalough Station via Green Street.
          • To Glendalough: Current 354 route until Flinders Street, then continue Wiluna Street, L Charles Street, R Green Street, R Scarborough Beach Road, L into Glendalough Station Terminus.
          • To Mirrabooka: From Glendalough Station Terminus, R Scarborough Beach Road, L Green Street, L Charles Street, R Wiluna Street, S Flinders Street and continue with current 354 route.
          Although I live nearby, I'm not sure of the Green St boardings of route 406 as current. It would be an interesting concept though.
          shinjiman wrote:
          Fri May 29, 2020 4:04 am
          Route 435
          Selected route 387 trips will be converted to route 435 (route 387 will retained for peak hours trips only), running between Warwick Station to Mirrabooka Bus Station via current route 387 until Primewest Northlands, then Amelia Street, Ravenswood and Yirrigan Drives. Those travel between those two locations along route 387 can do the transfer at Northlands.
          • To Mirrabooka: Current 387 route until Wanneroo Road, then L Amelia Street, S Ravenswood Drive, S Yirrigan Drive, L Chestfield Road, R into Mirrabooka Bus Station.
          • To Warwick: From Mirrabooka Bus Station, L Chestfield Road, R Yirragan Drive, S Ravenswood Drive, S Amelia Street, R Wanneroo Road and continue with current 387 route.
          On my travels on the 387, I discovered that a peak-flow 387 does not exist. Rather, the 387's peak flow is a contra-peak flow, with max frequency F during T hours. Not sure how I feel, if the timetables are timed nicely, this could be a good idea to have the 387 go around to Mirrabooka, but the transfer would either require a fair bit of a walk or traffic light crossings, dependent on travel direction. And I think everyone knows that Perth traffic lights are terrible for pedestrians, which is a problem if there's a tight interchange window.

          Overall, as a concept idea, I'm supportive of a feasibility study - subject to community consultation.
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          Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

          Post by Merc1107 »

          In Transit wrote:
          Fri May 29, 2020 7:04 am
          It probably wasn’t helped by only being every second trip (so an hourly frequency) and was only during the middle of day - but we had limited funding and couldn’t cost any peak buses, so that was the only option. The intent was to enable shoppers to get to Booragoon, but the demand proved to be very low. Good intentions - but one of those ideas that didn’t work out.
          I suppose that for many, the journey was already reasonably easy with a walk to Canning Highway and a change to a Booragoon-bound service (of which there were several at good frequency, particularly once the 940 was introduced).

          Could such a service succeed today given the South Perth and Como areas have developed further in the intervening years? Or would the more upmarket demographic of the area hamper its success?

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          Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

          Post by Enviro 500 »

          Merc1107 wrote:
          Sat May 30, 2020 3:06 am
          In Transit wrote:
          Fri May 29, 2020 7:04 am
          It probably wasn’t helped by only being every second trip (so an hourly frequency) and was only during the middle of day - but we had limited funding and couldn’t cost any peak buses, so that was the only option. The intent was to enable shoppers to get to Booragoon, but the demand proved to be very low. Good intentions - but one of those ideas that didn’t work out.
          I suppose that for many, the journey was already reasonably easy with a walk to Canning Highway and a change to a Booragoon-bound service (of which there were several at good frequency, particularly once the 940 was introduced).

          Could such a service succeed today given the South Perth and Como areas have developed further in the intervening years? Or would the more upmarket demographic of the area hamper its success?
          There is 910 to Canning Bridge where you can transfer to 114, 115 or 160.

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          Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

          Post by Bus-1809 »

          Enviro 500 wrote: There is 910 to Canning Bridge where you can transfer to 114, 115 or 160.
          I'm pretty sure "Scania3000" is aware of those services, seeing as they have been the same for the last 20 years. Just a shame they got rid of the livery that went with the 940. I reckon it would have looked good on the OC's.
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          Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

          Post by wachris »

          BusSuggestions. Live the first list. Are you going to load the next portion?

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          Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

          Post by shinjiman »

          The other bit I would like to having some modifications for the route 568 to extend it and connect to the Wellard Station, it's similar what the route 468 did.

          Route 568
          Extending the route to Wellard Station via Baldivis Road, Leda Boulevard and Lambeth Circle.
          • To Wellard: Current 568 route until Dunning Street, then continue strainght, R McDonald Road, R Kerosene Lane, L Baldivis Road, R Kulija Road, L Baldivis Road, R Baldivis Road, L Wellard Road, L Leda Boulevard, R Lambeth Circle, L Chiswick Parade, L into Wellard Station Terminus.
          • To Warnbro: From Wellard Station Terminus, L Chiswick Parade L Lambeth Circle, R Leda Boulevard, R Wellard Road, R Baldivis Road, L Baldivis Road, R Kulija Road, L Baldivis Boulevard, R Kerosene Lane, L McDonald Road, L Dunning Street and continue with current 568 route.

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          Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

          Post by Merc1107 »

          That's actually a rather clever idea - it's unfortunate that part of Wellard has been devoid of any bus service for so long. I would go as far as extending the service to Kwinana Bus Station, as the weekend service between the Station and shops is, to put it bluntly, a disaster.

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          Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

          Post by Bus Suggestions »

          wachris wrote:
          Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:16 pm
          BusSuggestions. Live the first list. Are you going to load the next portion?
          I initially intended to release the next two sections (western and south-eastern) services together, however I have encountered some delays in developing the south-eastern list. Hopefully, over the school holidays, I will be able to further develop the plan. I will be able to release the Western services list now though, so here we are!

          Western Services (Routes 100-160)
          Description
          Western services are Fremantle Line feeder routes, routes serving west of Canning Bridge and Bull Creek or routes operated as part of the Claremont contract area. Routes within this number range which do not fall under this category will be renumbered.

          Routes

          100
          Service renumbered to Route 175, keeping in-line with the route numbering system, and extended to Kintail Rd in Applecross until terminating facilities are built at Canning Bridge Stn. For extension details, see route 175 section in South-Eastern Services (releasing soon).

          101
          Service renumbered to Route 176, keeping in-line with the route numbering system, and extended to Booragoon Bus Station until terminating facilities are built at Canning Bridge Stn. For extension details, see route 176 section in South-Eastern Services (releasing soon).

          102 & 103
          No change.

          107
          Reroute in Mosman Park to remove loop.
          From Perth: Current route to View St, then L Johnston St, R Bay View Tce, R Manning St, R Wellington St, R Solomon St, L Victoria St to resume current route to Fremantle.
          To Perth: Current route to Victoria St, then R Palmerston St, L Wellington St, L Bay View Tce, L Johnston St, R View St to resume current route to Perth.

          111
          Route 111 will be upgraded to a limited-stops route from Canning Bridge to Fremantle and renumbered to ExpressLine Route 600.

          114 & 115
          Time changes.

          148
          Time changes.

          150
          Withdraw and merge into Route 160 short trips.

          158
          Time changes.

          160
          Time changes with additional short trips to/from Booragoon Bus Stn to replace Route 150 trips.

          It is important to note that where the route simply says 'time changes,' this is a placeholder, where changes could be placed in the future, or simply where I haven't found a way to substantially help the service. I also have personal grudges that I've put into this, such as above with the 107 where I have removed the Mosman Park loop - I dislike mini-loops and route duplication at points along routes.
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          Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

          Post by Merc1107 »

          Bus Suggestions wrote:
          Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:53 am
          I also have personal grudges that I've put into this, such as above with the 107 where I have removed the Mosman Park loop - I dislike mini-loops and route duplication at points along routes.
          It's been a while since I rode a 107, but as I recall, the streets of Mosman Park (and the roundabouts) can be quite narrow and tight, so the route chosen through the area may be for ease of manoeuvring - or it's just a remnant of times gone by. Aside from school kids, I'm not sure how well-used the 107 is in that part of the world - so it may loop around simply for the few people in the area without a dozen Porsches in the garage.
          Bus Suggestions wrote:
          Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:53 am
          111
          Route 111 will be upgraded to a limited-stops route from Canning Bridge to Fremantle and renumbered to ExpressLine Route 600.
          Historically, the 111 was an Express service to Rome Road (Melville Holden), although I don't know when this was changed and what the timetable was like in the 1980s. So I am curious about your reasoning for this change; in principal, I like the idea, and assuming the 111 in its present form is done away with after a new Canning Bridge is built, I do foresee a Limited Stops variant of the 910 being created to cater for the 111's regular users. At present though, I'm not sure it matches the travel needs of the community.

          The 111 is popular along Canning Highway West (in the peaks, predominantly) because it offers passengers a one-seat journey to the Terrace/EQ versus the less convenient, and often slower journey by 910 or 910 + Train. Since better time coordination between the 114 and 115 about two years ago, the 111s do the bulk of their work west of Riseley Street, with the busiest trips stopping at many of the stops along the way after this point.

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          Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

          Post by PaxInfo »

          Bus Suggestions wrote:
          Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:53 am

          150
          Withdraw and merge into Route 160 short trips.
          It's happening! https://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/Servic ... ges-137837
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          Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

          Post by Bus Suggestions »

          PaxInfo wrote:
          Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:45 pm
          It's happening! https://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/Servic ... ges-137837
          Image
          This does change a few things. I will divulge that I initially had the 501 also becoming a high-frequency route, but as this seems to be a reality now, I no longer have to include that and I can instead focus on route changes to the new 915.
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          Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

          Post by os91 »

          Instead of looping around Elizabeth Quay Bus Station and the Bell Tower, I would make the Blue CAT follow a new route: South on William street, East Geoffrey Bolton Av (stopping at a new CAT stop), then North on Barrack Street to resume present route. The stops at Elizabeth Quay Bus Station and Barrack Square would be removed. Currently, looping through the bus station seems quite circuitous and probably not that useful – many buses from William street already go into EQBS.

          In the long term, a CAT stop in Elizabeth Quay (on Geoffrey Bolton Av) might be good for attracting tourists and other users from the nearby new hotels and other buildings. The stop removed from the Bell Tower wouldn’t be too far from this new stop, and the EQ train station and bus station would be decently close too. Getting rid of the double loops could make the Blue CAT simpler and faster, attracting more users.

          Also, instead of sending the 935 up into Kings Park, I’d replace it with a new CAT route (Orange, Purple, Black – whatever colour you like). Kings Park seems to be more of a tourist destination rather than a daily commuters’ location, so making Kings Park accessible by the CAT bus network seems more logical than the high frequency network.

          This new CAT route could run from the current 935 terminus, down Fraser Ave, Malcolm St, The Terrace, and turn around anti-clockwise via William St, Geoffrey Bolton Av (stopping at the aforementioned new stop) and Barrack street back to St Georges Terrace. The 935 could now follow the 930 route into EQBS. The new CAT could have stops along St Georges Terrace for passengers from the 935 and the other terrace routes to transfer at.

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