New bus network arising from SMNW opening

[Stu]

^ TSA did not receive the correct amount of artics required otherwise a high percentage of shifts across routes M10, M20, M30 & M50 would be scheduled as artic shifts, this is simply not the case. The fact is that there many shifts are scheduled for rigid buses and have been since July 1st 2018. It is rare to see a blue & white artic from Leichhardt Depot dispatched onto a metrobus route as this would take the blue & white artic away from its scheduled work on some school routes and routes 438, L38 & 470. The other issue that impacts the number of red artics in metrobus routes is the fact that some buses have to run not in service for long distances, the causes the bus to be in the road for longer.

TSA only received 6 x additional artics, 2 from Y, 2 from N and 2 from P - all odd bods when in comparison to the STA artic fleet as a whole. When Region 6 was a part of STA, the M10 was 50/50 with P, the M30 was 50/50 with N, the M50 was 50/50 with R and the M20 was about 40% R6, 50% R9 and 10% R7. With the above mentioned routes becoming 100% operated by TSA, that is a large volume of additional work that revolves around artic capacity and with only 6 x additional artics being added to the fleet, I can't see how this would adequately meet scheduling requirements for maintaining the same level of capacity for metrobus services.

I understand what you mean by saying that artics should be allocated to routes that require such a vehicle, that is why Port Botany received 12 x artics from Region 8. The red artics at Randwick were eventually transferred to Waverley for route 333, some red artics from Port Botany were transferred to Waverley also for route 333 and some red artics still remain at Port Botany.

When route optimisation occurred at STA in 2013 where both routes and buses were distributed across the various STA regions, it was possible to replace a defective red artic with a blue & white artic (except Willoughby) and a rigid would only be used as a last resort. I'm aware that TfNSW have not worried the colour of the bus and that was an easy situation to deal with for bus companies who operated metrobus routes with rigids only, however when STA used to operate a number metrobus routes that had artics scheduled, the procedure was to keep capacity as scheduled. Due to numerous timetable increases over the years on route M20 along with no more buses being painted into metrobus livery, rigids were scheduled for the additional peak hour short working trips. The same type of scheduling still applies to TSA regarding M20 short working trips so I would not expect TSA to have a red bus on every single metrobus trip.

TfNSW have the final say regarding fleet plans considering that most buses these days are government owned assets and TfNSW do not yield easily to requests.

[Frosty]

^Valid point about red artics on metrobus routes having long dead running I see often a bus have to run empty from Botany all the way to L or even back to Gore Hill.
It must also be factored in later in November 2018 in R9 changes to artic fleet rostering occurred with the 309/309X/310X receiving artics and the new route 304 meaning more artics were required. I'm guessing that STA keep more artics as the 14.5m fleet is being retired reducing the number of high-capacity buses in STA regions.

[Richard290]

I basically think that anything not already going express via the LCT, and anything going to Macquarie Park, Chatswood or North Sydney will be scrapped. It simply won't be time competitive compared to a short trip to the closest station and a ride on the metro. West Pennant Hills routes will be unique because of how close in they are, and the negligible journey time difference.

I foresee these routes will be cut or curtailed:
602X
615X
616X
617X
610
619
622
627
628
642
653

Route 619 has some usefulness in its route between the short-working terminus at Castle Hill Station and Macquarie Park, it provides a direct connection through Baulko Junction to Macquarie Uni Station/Macquarie Centre and the business parks along Waterloo Road to Macquarie Park Station - since Baulkham Hills does not have a metro station of its own and relies on routes such as M60 (to Castle Hill and Parramatta), 601 (to Rouse Hill and Parramatta), 619 (to Rouse Hill, Kellyviile, Castle Hill, Macquarie Uni and Macquarie Park) and 630 (to Seven Hills, Blacktown and Epping) to feed into different heavy rail and metro stations across the north western suburbs.

[mandonov]

Route 619 has some usefulness in its route between the short-working terminus at Castle Hill Station and Macquarie Park, it provides a direct connection through Baulko Junction to Macquarie Uni Station/Macquarie Centre and the business parks along Waterloo Road to Macquarie Park Station - since Baulkham Hills does not have a metro station of its own and relies on routes such as M60 (to Castle Hill and Parramatta), 601 (to Rouse Hill and Parramatta), 619 (to Rouse Hill, Kellyviile, Castle Hill, Macquarie Uni and Macquarie Park) and 630 (to Seven Hills, Blacktown and Epping) to feed into different heavy rail and metro stations across the north western suburbs.

Agree. The M2 will continue to be an important corridor for Baulkham Hills as well as the bus stops on the M2 itself. I can see the M60 or 611 being good candidates for reallocating the double deck fleet.

[Qantas94Heavy]

As a general guide, if you'll need a shuttle bus on each end it'll be much slower (e.g. Joseph Banks T-Way to St Leonards TAFE). If you only need to take one shuttle bus it'll be a similar travel time (e.g. Brampton Dr to Wynyard), and if origin/destination are both next to stations it'll be quicker (e.g. Rouse Hill to North Sydney).

[swtt]

Back to the old metro bus routes that will become 410/550/340: I wonder whether their timetables will now be fully visible or simply remain as a "frequency guide" service?

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[Richard290]

Back to the old metro bus routes that will become 410/550/340: I wonder whether their timetables will now be fully visible or simply remain as a "frequency guide" service?

I can confirm that the new 550 timetable is basically a reprint of the outgoing M54 timetable. It was released on Sunday.
https://transportnsw.info/documents/tim ... 190428.pdf


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[swtt]

Back to the old metro bus routes that will become 410/550/340: I wonder whether their timetables will now be fully visible or simply remain as a "frequency guide" service?

I can confirm that the new 550 timetable is basically a reprint of the outgoing M54 timetable. It was released on Sunday.
https://transportnsw.info/documents/tim ... 190428.pdf


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Yes but at the bus stops a "frequency guide" is provided where the services are 20 minutes or more frequent. That's one of the "features" of metrobus. The M41 bus stop "timetables" are still like that.

But with these routes being stripped of the metrobus branding, I wonder if there'll be an entire swath of exact timings printed, or will it remain as "approximately every 15 minutes".

[boronia]

There are some signs at bus stops already advising of the m40-340 change, with mention that route and times will not change.

[Mr OC Benz]

Back to the old metro bus routes that will become 410/550/340: I wonder whether their timetables will now be fully visible or simply remain as a "frequency guide" service?

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I believe the M40 at least, has been incorporated into the stop timetables since the September 2018 changes when weekend frequencies were increased and night services introduced (even earlier at some of the TfNSW “B” branded stops from memory).

[GazzaOak]

I wonder if there will be much further changes once the Chatswood to Bankstown metro is open (such as full pruning of all hillsbus services to CBD)

[Frosty]

There are some signs at bus stops already advising of the m40-340 change, with mention that route and times will not change.

Saw a bus running from M depot to Chatswood displaying the 340 desto.

[Richard290]

As of yesterday, I have yet to see any information posters regarding the change in route number from M54 into 550 along the route through Carlingford. Not to mention that numerous Metrobus branded bus stops along the M54/550 route between Parramatta and Epping have been damaged or vandalised.

[Stonesourscotty]

There's a 550 sign at the Coles bus stop heading towards Parra

[Richard290]

Found this notice on the TfNSW blue paddle signpost at Epping Station, Beecroft Road, Stand D on Friday.

[boronia]

Similar signs have been up for the m40-340 change for a couple of weeks.

[Richard290]

But with these routes being stripped of the metrobus branding, I wonder if there'll be an entire swath of exact timings printed, or will it remain as "approximately every 15 minutes".

Proof at stop 211840 on route 550 in Carlingford.

[745-Castle Hill]

Was driving around Marsden Park/Rouse Hill/Stanhope Gardens yesterday and noticed some new route pointers. Seems like route 757 will be changing routes Marsden Park

On Quakers Hill Pkwy before Chase Dr there is a route pointer for route 731 where a T71 pointer used to be. Perhaps a sign of the Tway brand going out? Or maybe just replacing it with a route that doesn’t go on the Tway.

[gilberations]

Was driving around Marsden Park/Rouse Hill/Stanhope Gardens yesterday and noticed some new route pointers. Seems like route 757 will be changing routes Marsden Park

On Quakers Hill Pkwy before Chase Dr there is a route pointer for route 731 where a T71 pointer used to be. Perhaps a sign of the Tway brand going out? Or maybe just replacing it with a route that doesn’t go on the Tway.

The original numbers for the T routes were 66X and 77X before they changed it to T6X and T7X

There is supposed to be a new Blacktown to Castle Hill route, maybe the 731 is that?

I’m still waiting to see the Penrith to Castle Hill via Rouse Hill route


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[Bovways]

The original numbers for the T routes were 66X and 77X before they changed it to T6X and T7X

I'd argue that.

The T7x routes were formerly 74x operating on Sunnyholt Road prior to the T-way opening. 77x routes were in the Penrith area.

The T6x routes didn't really exist at all. 66x routes were in the Windsor area.

C

[gilberations]

The original numbers for the T routes were 66X and 77X before they changed it to T6X and T7X

I'd argue that.

The T7x routes were formerly 74x operating on Sunnyholt Road prior to the T-way opening. 77x routes were in the Penrith area.

The T6x routes didn't really exist at all. 66x routes were in the Windsor area.

C

I was a part of the stakeholders meetings when the entire Region 1 and 4 were to be redesigned for the integration of the T-Way. If I still had the maps I could show you that I’m correct.

Yes the T7X replaces the 740 741 741R 741S and 742 but the numbers were reallocated.

At the time all route numbers were up for grabs as it was going to start at 600 and go up from there.


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[gilberations]

For that matter at the time they were talking about merging the 2 regions because of the T-Way to make one mega region


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[kypros1992]

I was a part of the stakeholders meetings when the entire Region 1 and 4 were to be redesigned for the integration of the T-Way. If I still had the maps I could show you that I’m correct.

Close enough map - T-way network map on opening
https://web.archive.org/web/20080719054 ... rk-map.pdf

[gilberations]

I was a part of the stakeholders meetings when the entire Region 1 and 4 were to be redesigned for the integration of the T-Way. If I still had the maps I could show you that I’m correct.

Close enough map - T-way network map on opening
https://web.archive.org/web/20080719054 ... rk-map.pdf

Funny enough, the map we were working off was only slightly different to this one in that it had more of the future routes on it, such as what we now know to be the T72 and T74


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[robert]

Was driving around Marsden Park/Rouse Hill/Stanhope Gardens yesterday and noticed some new route pointers. Seems like route 757 will be changing routes Marsden Park

On Quakers Hill Pkwy before Chase Dr there is a route pointer for route 731 where a T71 pointer used to be. Perhaps a sign of the Tway brand going out? Or maybe just replacing it with a route that doesn’t go on the Tway.

The original numbers for the T routes were 66X and 77X before they changed it to T6X and T7X

There is supposed to be a new Blacktown to Castle Hill route, maybe the 731 is that?

I’m still waiting to see the Penrith to Castle Hill via Rouse Hill route

The proposed use of 66x numbers for T-way routes is correct. I have a copy of the brochure seeking comments on the proposed T-way routes in 2006. It lists the proposed T-way routes as:

661 Parramatta-Blacktown via Kings Langley
662 Parramatta-North Kellyville via Bella Vista, Norwest & Kellyville
663 Parramatta-Stanhope Gardens via Glenwood
664 Parramatta-Rouse Hill via Samantha Riley Dr & Beaumont Hills.

Some proposed changes happened and others were altered. There was no equivalent of the current T65.