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Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby matthewg » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:29 pm

Ikarbus wrote:
This is effectively the last IWLR shut down available to utilise to complete the civil works at this intersection, so third time lucky or not, this is the last chance.


It will require yet another shutdown - as there has been no attempt to put the overhead crossings required and the track is supposed to handed back in 3 days - the shutdown for the overhead shouldn't need to be so long, but given the speed other works have been undertaken, this is a total shutdown of the intersection for rail and road for at least 7 days. With the curves as well it's a reasonably complex bit of knitting to install.
What's the bet the civil guys take the opportunity to dig something else up there when the overhead crew are working?

A Melbourne crew could do this intersection in 2 days with time to spare, but they do trams, not light rail so we can't ask them for advice.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby hornetfig » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:14 pm

Ikarbus wrote:1. The new traffic lights have been commissioned at the Randwick depot/Alison Rd/Randwick racecourse intersection.


Have they? They ain't on...
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby tonyp » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:19 pm

matthewg wrote:
A Melbourne crew could do this intersection in 2 days with time to spare, but they do trams, not light rail so we can't ask them for advice.

Of course Sydney is doing trams too, they just don't want to admit it.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby boronia » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:35 pm

hornetfig wrote:
Ikarbus wrote:1. The new traffic lights have been commissioned at the Randwick depot/Alison Rd/Randwick racecourse intersection.


Have they? They ain't on...

They might leave them turned them off when they are not needed. More like a level crossing than an intersection.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby hornetfig » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:15 pm

boronia wrote:They might leave them turned them off when they are not needed. More like a level crossing than an intersection.


Nah, that intersection is also combined with a vehicular entry to the racecourse and a fair number of pedestrian crossings (tram running lines, across Alison Rd, northern side of Alison Rd across each tramway fork, southern side of Alison Rd across the racecourse entry and tramway depot entrance). It'll be on all the time.

Photo of some of the pedestrian crossings and the racecourse entry. Tramway depot entry is just out of frame at right. All the one intersection.
Image

They have had a "no green" roundabout type light setup for the exit of the bus roadway onto Alison Rd eastbound. I wonder if that will persist in the final arrangement??
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby moa999 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:00 pm

Big crane at the South Dowling Entrance to the tunnel today
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby hornetfig » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:52 pm

^ They're removing the Parkham St pedestrian bridge
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby STMPainter2018 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:12 am

tonyp wrote:
matthewg wrote:
A Melbourne crew could do this intersection in 2 days with time to spare, but they do trams, not light rail so we can't ask them for advice.

Of course Sydney is doing trams too, they just don't want to admit it.


Let's be real; the only reason Sydney didn't ask Melbourne for advice is because of ego. Absolute, sheer, EGO! It's that stupid Sydney-Melbourne rivalry crap that's been going on since the days of colonialism and it's come at a cost to co-operation between the two cities.

But having said that, I don't understand why we're still dwelling on what some idiot bureaucrat said at a conference a few years ago. As far as I'm concerned, there at least has been some attempt by the CSELR's publicity tram to make up for their mistakes and refer to them as trams. Not to mention this little report that TonyP pointed out last month: https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/bu ... 17-002.pdf. Quite frankly, I say we let bygones be bygones and wait for the line to open (and hope somebody got fired for that blunder). :wink:

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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Swift » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:18 am

NSW "we're the best in the world at doing things" fallacy they persistently peddle to the public and themselves. They need to stop jerking their gherkin or they'll go completely blind!!
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby moa999 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:21 am

hornetfig wrote:^ They're removing the Parkham St pedestrian bridge
That would explain its position.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Ikarbus » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:23 pm

hornetfig wrote:
Ikarbus wrote:1. The new traffic lights have been commissioned at the Randwick depot/Alison Rd/Randwick racecourse intersection.


Have they? They ain't on...


There is a power supply issue to the site, they are meant to be on 24/7 :oops:

hornetfig wrote:^ They're removing the Parkham St pedestrian bridge


Correct. And I believe the same crane will be used to install the new pedestrian bridge over Anzac Pde in February.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby hornetfig » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:52 pm

Ikarbus wrote:There is a power supply issue to the site, they are meant to be on 24/7 :oops:


Fixed today. Out of sync with Doncaster Ave (where the induction coils have been offline since before Christmas hence ghost phases for added pain); I guess with a couple of weeks until school goes back and the traffic gets really bad though.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Frosty » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:19 pm

^ That would explain why the right turn BUS signal from Allison Rd at Doncaster Avenue & Busway has been having phases even when the busway is closed most of the time.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby boronia » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:33 pm

It was explained to me a few years back that the computers could detect if a sensor hadn't been activated for a certain period of time, and it would assume a possible fault and activate the phase just in case. Similarly, if there is a sensor circuit fault, the computer will just run the phase regardless.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby rogf24 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:03 pm

So today opposition leader Michael Daley suggested he would rip up the tram once he got into office. Then promptly backflipped. Screw NSW Labor, still terrible and doing nothing useful it seems.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/ ... 9c2c266194
Labor Leader Michael Daley backflips on comments to ‘rip up’ light rail

Labor leader Michael Daley has been forced to clarify that he would not rip up the maligned light rail project if elected Premier in March.

On Friday morning Mr Daley said on Sky News he would have to make “some very hard decisions” about the light rail project if he was triumphant at the election and didn’t rule out ripping up the project.

But after Transport Minister Andrew Constance labelled the idea “priceless lunacy” and likened it to setting a pile of cash on fire Mr Daley released a statement backing away from the comments and clarifying that he wouldn’t’ destroy the $2.1 billion project.

Mr Daley had told Sky News that he would assess the project once it’s up and running and then make a decision whether to “rip it up”.

“We’ve got two options — if it’ll be up and running sometime in the next one or two years, if I’m the Premier I can’t rip it up and then pay compensation to the private consortium … for 15 years,” he told Sky News.

“(If I) rip it up I’ve still got to pay … for 15 years for running a light rail that doesn’t exist.”

“We’ll pray that it works but if it doesn’t I’ll have to make a decision won’t I, but who knows.”

Altrac has a contract with the government to build, operate and maintain the Sydney and Inner West light rail for 15 years.

Mr Daley didn’t dismiss the idea of ripping the light rail out of the ground when he was asked if he would “consider” such action.

“If it’s a scourge on this part of Sydney and is wrecking traffic on a regional basis we’ll have to make some very hard decisions,” he said in response.

The project is expected to be completed by late 2019 or early 2020.

Transport Minister Andrew Constance seized on the comments to attack Mr Daley for “being out of touch”, telling The Daily Telegraph any move to rip up the project was “priceless lunacy” and linked it to burning a pile of cash.

“Ripped up, ripped off by an inexperienced Labor leader this reckless behaviour reminds me of when he was Roads Minister under the last Labor government. He is out of touch with public sentiment and would sooner see hundreds of buses return to George St and along Anzac parade choking the city,” he said.

“Ironically it would be years of disruption while Michael Daley and (Shadow Roads Minister) Jodi McKay backed up their excavator. He might as well put hundreds of millions of dollars of cash in a big pile at the bottom of Martin Place and set a match to it.”

“It is just priceless lunacy from a bloke on L-plates — and not L for leadership.”

Mr Constance said the project will be successful once it’s opened with each light rail vehicle able to carry up to 450 people, the equivalent of nine buses.

Just an hour after Mr Constance spoke out on the issue Mr Daley released a statement saying he “unequivocally ruled out “ripping up” the Sydney light rail”.

“We will make hard decisions in government but ripping up the light rail is not one of them given the contract has been locked in by the Liberals,” Mr Daley said in the statement.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby tonyp » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:40 pm

What Labor will do is fail to give it any support or encouragement, run competing buses etc like they did with the IWLR for 14 years. Also Daley was a former Roads Minister and he talks like one.

The deeper concern is that Labor is actually going into this election with no real transport policy, indeed with no transport vision whatsoever.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby boronia » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:01 pm

How hypocritical that Constance is claiming that Daley is out of touch with public sentiment.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby tonyp » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:17 am

boronia wrote:How hypocritical that Constance is claiming that Daley is out of touch with public sentiment.

I'm not at all a fan of Constance, but the only serious misreading of public sentiment that I can recall is the Gong Shuttle.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Swift » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:55 am

tonyp wrote:
The deeper concern is that Labor is actually going into this election with no real transport policy, indeed with no transport vision whatsoever.

That's how we got the last decent Labor administration and that was in 1976!
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby STMPainter2018 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:19 pm

tonyp wrote:What Labor will do is fail to give it any support or encouragement, run competing buses etc like they did with the IWLR for 14 years. Also Daley was a former Roads Minister and he talks like one.

The deeper concern is that Labor is actually going into this election with no real transport policy, indeed with no transport vision whatsoever.


Yeah, that's gonna be a bit problem come election time isn't it? But on the other hand, you have the current Liberal government and all it's foolishness despite doing better on the infrastructure front. So personally, I'm in a bit of dilemma over it; I have every intention of voting Labor come the next election, but it's definitely not because of their groundbreaking transport plans. If anything it's because I feel like, at this moment in time, we need a government that underdevelops instead of overdevelops (sad as that sounds). And frankly I trust Labor a lot more to take action on other issues that I care about, such as saving the Powerhouse Museum, reducing rampant overdevelopment, protecting heritage, or just giving a XXX about the Macarthur region in general. But I can't deny the lack of transport plans is a hinderance. If one were to ask me what Labor's transport policy is I would only be able to point out their possible commitment to the Metro West line and that's it. It feels like Labor is banking on winning back the state based on the Liberal party's current controversies, as if people will vote them in hoping they'll fix the damage the Libs have done ever since Little Miss Barry resigned over a bottle of wine. And I'm sorry Michael, but that's not enough. YOU NEED MORE POLICY if you want me or others to fully embrace you, especially when it comes to public transport involving railways and tramways. Committing to not ripping up the CSELR is a start but that's just the bare bones; we need more! I know I'm just ranting pointlessly now but as someone who actually gives a XXX about politics and the future of this state, I'm pretty torn as a tram enthusiast, for voting for a party that hasn't traditionally been pro-tram, just because the Libs have ####ed a lot more things up imo. Guess it's just gonna have to be a "pick your poison scenario". Though having said all that, I've got a good mind to invite Daly and Jodi out to the Sydney Tramway Museum, and expose them to people who actually know their XXX and hope they will become educated and open minded enough to at least toot the idea of extending the light rail once it's proven to be successful. #comeonmindlessoptimism
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby tonyp » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 pm

I reckon its a hard call being a Labor voter at the moment. They need another spell out on the pasture to do what they should have been doing the past seven years: putting new blood up the top to replace those dead remnants of the Carr era and sitting down and writing up some real good policy. How long does it take to learn that you don't win elections just by opposing, cancelling and cutting back on every initiative of the other party just for the hell of it? And stop trying to pander to the greens. All adrift at sea is how I'd summarise it at the moment. Every democracy needs a strong, viable alternative government. The other thing is that policy areas like transport should be bipartisan, with a long-term vision mutually agreed upon. Too important to be left to the old stop-start-cancel circus.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby simonl » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:15 am

^ Although I disagree that they should be looking backward. They just need to focus on the path forward from here. Their last state election platform was a disgrace.

I think I'll be looking at minor parties unfortunately.

I agree that suggesting cancelling the CSELR was an own goal. They could add some point of difference like keeping George St open between Bathurst St and Park St but I don't really see the votes in anything like that.

Maybe they should just shock us all and promise to start phasing out guards on trains! The Libs couldn't say anything bad about that idea other than it being a long term one.

I think reducing the airport surcharge is a good move but it should be buy buying out the owners rather than introducing shadow tolls. Same with their silly cash back on the M4 idea. Seriously, where were they in 2015 when the libs told us they wanted to put the toll back on the M4?
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Swift » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:58 pm

simonl wrote:
I think I'll be looking at minor parties unfortunately.


You may as well vote informal then. We don't want more Hinches and Hanson's at state level. Vote Labor as a punishment if there isn't a policy platform to aspire to.
We want a government that can take us in a direction, not more minority governments that only delay the inevitable shitty decisions we'll get anyway.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby mandonov » Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:11 pm

The great thing about our voting system is the flow of preferences that enable us to vote for who we believe in while still having a vote that counts.

Gillard's minority government passed more legislation than the majority Liberal governments following hers have. A good leader can do wonderful things with a minority and a terrible leader can piss away their majority. Non of it is cut and dry.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby STMPainter2018 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:24 am

Swift wrote:
simonl wrote:
I think I'll be looking at minor parties unfortunately.


You may as well vote informal then. We don't want more Hinches and Hanson's at state level.


Hallelujah to that. The last thing this state needs right now is someone like Mark **** **** Latham being put into parliament; the only place where he belongs is rehab.
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