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Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Rails » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:45 pm

I will say that I think that the Metro would have been better running along the Airport line to Revesby rather than the Bankstown line. However I understand why they did it this way. I still think that post 2030 the Airport line should be converted to Metro or at a minimum Single Deck trains.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby quaidy » Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:38 pm

Rails wrote:I will say that I think that the Metro would have been better running along the Airport line to Revesby rather than the Bankstown line. However I understand why they did it this way. I still think that post 2030 the Airport line should be converted to Metro or at a minimum Single Deck trains.


Problem is that there is nothing very exciting along the East Hills line, at least the Bankstown line has some preexisting larger urban districts (marrickville, campsie, Bankstown) and room to upscale.


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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Transtopic » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:54 pm

Rails wrote:Its all history now and I don't know why certain people cant get past this stuff but the original NW Metro proposal was not superior to what we are getting! Is this for real? What part is better?

The small 5 carriage max trains running 22-24 TPH without decent changes?
The duplication of a corridor to Epping just opened in the form of the ECRL?
Lack of direct access for the NWRL to Macquarie Uni, Macquarie Park, North Ryde and Chatswood?
Lack of direct access for the NWRL St Leonards, Crows Nest, North Sydney and Barangaroo?
Not building a proper Barangaroo station?
Continuing to service the important ECRL corridor with 4-6TPH unreliable and slow loading DD?
Trying to interchange a very large number of NWRL passengers bound for these locations at Epping to that 4-6 TPH?
Limiting the Shore with as low as 14 TPH just as you're building units along the rail line?
Entrenching the Cityrail tradition of branching and mixing lines instead of separating and enabling rationalisation?
Not implementing a true backup path for the Shore line that so often breaks the system due to that entrenched tradition?
Giving in particular North Sydney but also St Leonards/ Crows Nest modern stations that can actually deal with the crowds that use them?
Not building a line that will actually allow for the much needed upgrade of Wynyard And Town Hall?
Missing out on running 30 TPH reliable, automated, fast loading SD trains along the Global economic Corridor from the CBD to the Shore and ECRL?
Serving a single direction, peak only corridor vs a corridor that is well utilised in both directions throughout the day?
Serving a small number of passengers at commuter stops like Top Ryde, Monash Park, Gladesville, and Drummoyne with 22-30 TPH over major employment destinations that all of Sydney accesses like Macquarie Park, North Ryde, Chatswood, St Leonards and North Sydney?

If you're one of those people that believe that people only use trains to get from the outer suburbs to the CBD you may think it better.
If you're one of those people who believe that Single Deck trains can only be used for short spaced inner suburban trips you may think its better.
If you're one of those people that believe Sydney trains is the pinnacle of transport and cant be improved on then you may think its better.
If you're one of those people that believe that a 15 min service is good PT and no one ever changes trains then you may think its better.
If you're one of those people that thinks that 6 months of bus replacement outweighs substantial long term benefits then you may think its better.
If you're one of those people that feels that Sydney trains is a protected species, never to be touched rather than a train line owned by the people that should work for the people then you may think its better.

If you're one of those people you're not to be listened to.
I'm one of those people, so ** you. I have a differing opinion and have a right to be heard. Time will tell whether the right decisions have been made.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Glen » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:41 pm

quaidy wrote:Problem is that there is nothing very exciting along the East Hills line, at least the Bankstown line has some preexisting larger urban districts (marrickville, campsie, Bankstown) and room to upscale.

Indeed, the history being that the East Hills line was only built in the 1930's whereas the Bankstown line is much older, as are its suburbs.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Rails » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:38 am

quaidy wrote:
Problem is that there is nothing very exciting along the East Hills line, at least the Bankstown line has some preexisting larger urban districts (marrickville, campsie, Bankstown) and room to upscale.


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It's more about the Airport and it's surrounding stations although I think Kingsgrove has potential. I think those stops have more use for Metro than Bankstown. Extending to Liverpool helps the Bankstown choice but again doesn't outweigh the Airport stops to me. I also think there's just as much development potential out towards Revesby as there is on the Bankstown line.

If they had of been able to branch to Hurstville it would have added a lot to the Bankstown option too I guess, even though it's not ideal to branch a Metro.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby mandonov » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:12 pm

METRO DELIVERS LANDMARK HUB FOR NORTH SYDNEY
21 Dec 2018
Minister for Transport and Infrastructure Andrew Constance said it’s another way metro is transforming Sydney.

"The new Victoria Cross metro station will be a landmark in the heart of North Sydney, giving customers more and easier public transport options as part of our plan to improve transport," Mr Constance said.

The NSW Government has awarded Lendlease a $476 million contract to deliver the station component of the new Victoria Cross Station in North Sydney - including new retail spaces and improvements to the public domain.

As part of a value capture agreement on Sydney Metro, the NSW Government will receive more than $200 million from Lendlease for the right to develop a 40-storey commercial building above the station’s southern entrance portal, and for the retail spaces delivered as part of the station.

Under this commercial arrangement, the NSW Government may also receive a share of any uplift in the value of commercial and retail buildings.

This is the second integrated station development on the Sydney Metro City & Southwest project.

"The new integrated station development will help shape North Sydney’s future, adding to the vibrancy of the area," Mr Constance said.

"New employment and retail opportunities, improved pedestrian connections and high quality outdoor spaces will add to a growing commercial and residential precinct."

"As the new Victoria Cross Station is largely built underground, the integrated station development can be built at the same time, minimising disruption to the community."

Work is already underway on the new Victoria Cross Station, with roadheader tunnelling machines working to excavate the new metro station cavern under Miller Street.

https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/news-a ... rth-sydney
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby eBlog42 » Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:44 pm

ImageConstruction Harding’s temporary removed this evening in Martin Place for extra pedestrian capacity
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby swtt » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:32 pm

This just popped up on TfNSW.

https://transportnsw.info/metro
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby kypros1992 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:53 pm

swtt wrote:This just popped up on TfNSW.

https://transportnsw.info/metro


Start of the PR campaign but no information yet on the launch date (tfnsw are saying mid-2019, sources say sometime late may) and changes to CDC network

But metro fares will be same as train fares with all opal benefits
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Fleet Lists » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:57 pm

It looks like a draft to me as there does not appear to be a link to it yet from the news home page - it can be found by a search but that is not unusual for a draft so whether it is mid 2019 or whatever other sources you are referring to, it is open to the May/June timeslot.
I think it will come up with a different URL when it is formally released.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby swtt » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:20 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:It looks like a draft to me as there does not appear to be a link to it yet from the news home page - it can be found by a search but that is not unusual for a draft so whether it is mid 2019 or whatever other sources you are referring to, it is open to the May/June timeslot.
I think it will come up with a different URL when it is formally released.



It's on the front page?

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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Fleet Lists » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:43 am

It is now - it was not when I looked earlier.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby tonyp » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:59 am

It would be nice on that page if, under "getting to the station", they put buses at the top of the list rather than last. Obviously TfNSW doesn't "think public transport" very well.

I falter a little over their claim to be the first fully accessible railway in Australia. I suppose they are in a semantic sense, comparing a single line with entire systems elsewhere, so they've chosen their words carefully. However, they have a very close challenger in Perth and - if one compares a single line with a single line - the 110 km north-south line in Perth would trounce them. One important way in which they are following Perth is to become the second railway system in Australia in which it is possible to ride a wheelchair or trolley between the platform and the train carriage without the aid of a ramp.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby kypros1992 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:16 pm

If you need assistance you can approach a Customer Journey Co-ordinator or use the video help point at a Metro Station.

If you are interchanging to Sydney Trains at Epping or Chatswood make yourself known to the Metro staff when you arrive at your station or use the video help point to notify the operations control staff. They’ll phone ahead to ensure that Sydney Trains staff can help you on your arrival. On arrival at the interchange station, please approach Sydney Metro or Sydney Trains staff for assistance.



Found the latest doublespeak term, station staff was too vague
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby tonyp » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:22 pm

Yesterday the first train traversed the entire length of the line from the depot to Chatswood:

https://twitter.com/andrewconstance/sta ... gqSqC2slvQ
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby rogf24 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:49 pm

I just saw it passing Chatswood station. Wow

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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby tonyp » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:17 pm

rogf24 wrote:I just saw it passing Chatswood station. Wow

It will be of great personal interest for me to see Chatswood Station post-metro with my recollections of it when I travelled to school!

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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby simonl » Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:28 pm

tonyp wrote:It would be nice on that page if, under "getting to the station", they put buses at the top of the list rather than last. Obviously TfNSW doesn't "think public transport" very well.

I falter a little over their claim to be the first fully accessible railway in Australia. I suppose they are in a semantic sense, comparing a single line with entire systems elsewhere, so they've chosen their words carefully. However, they have a very close challenger in Perth and - if one compares a single line with a single line - the 110 km north-south line in Perth would trounce them. One important way in which they are following Perth is to become the second railway system in Australia in which it is possible to ride a wheelchair or trolley between the platform and the train carriage without the aid of a ramp.

Yeah - and parking at the top. Only 4000 spaces, thought it was going to be more than that! A lot of the new stations except Castle Hill have low density nearby, so not sure what they are thinking here. Particularly with the claim of 12k cars off the road - no doubt counting someone driving to the station who was previously walking to the bus as a car off the road!

There's a few accessible stations in Brisbane too - and some which can never be made accessible.

What are the non-accessible parts of the Perth network? I was surprised to notice even the old parts of the network had negligible vertical gap boarding. Didn't see an exception to this, although I didn't see that much of it.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby tonyp » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:42 am

simonl wrote:
What are the non-accessible parts of the Perth network? I was surprised to notice even the old parts of the network had negligible vertical gap boarding. Didn't see an exception to this, although I didn't see that much of it.

There are two parts to providing accessibility on trains - between the train and the platform and between the platform and the street. One is rather useless without the other (Melbourne's trams are an excellent example of that issue at play!). Without a detailed analysis, I get the impression that Perth still has to get roughly half of its legacy stations fully accessible on both counts, but there is nevertheless a good coverage of fully accessible stations along all of the legacy lines. The Perth north-south line would be the first fully-accessible railway line in Australia and the Sydney IWLR would be the first fully-accessible tram line.

It would be interesting to find how many individual bus routes would be fully-accessible, that is fully equipped with low-entry or low-floor buses and able to ramp to every bus stop along a route. Perhaps the new 333 in Sydney might be an example?
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Glen » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:20 am

simonl wrote:Only 4000 spaces, thought it was going to be more than that! A lot of the new stations except Castle Hill have low density nearby, so not sure what they are thinking here.

Housing density is rapidly increasing throughout the Hills!
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby tonyp » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:41 am

rogf24 wrote:I just saw it passing Chatswood station. Wow


https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/news-a ... -full-test

Edit:

First photos from TfNSW of the train arriving at Chatswood:

Image

Image
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Frosty » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:28 pm

Interesting they have a small fence separating Sydney Trains & Metro Tracks I wouldn't know why though ?
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Glen » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:30 pm

Frosty wrote:Interesting they have a small fence separating Sydney Trains & Metro Tracks I wouldn't know why though ?

Maybe that is the boundary of what the driverless train can "see".
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby mandonov » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:02 am

It's for operator safe working. These are two separate systems operated from two separate control centres, so if there is track work on one but not the other then there needs to be separation to protect workers. Similarly if there's an emergency and passengers need to walk along the track, there needs to be physical separation.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Frosty » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:41 am

mandonov wrote:It's for operator safe working. These are two separate systems operated from two separate control centres, so if there is track work on one but not the other then there needs to be separation to protect workers. Similarly if there's an emergency and passengers need to walk along the track, there needs to be physical separation.


That makes sense I initially thought to prevent trespassers but they could easily jump over fence of that height pictured above.
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