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Transport Canberra

Canberra / ACT Transport Discussion - Where the ACTION is

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Re: Transport Canberra

Postby Roderick Smith » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:16 pm

December 15 2016 New ACTION buses to be blue, light rail trams to be red .
The first of 20 new, blue ACTION buses will hit Canberra roads next month as the ACT government expands its free off-peak travel service for senior and concession card holders.
The blue buses will contrast with the first trams, which the government revealed will be red.
The first of the new fleet of blue ACTION buses was unveiled outside the ACT Legislative Assembly on Thursday. Photo: Katie Burgess .
The new ACTION fleet will be rolled out in 2017, with the first bus to hit the road in January.
"This is a new model, a much more sustainable model, a much more comfortable bus, much safer for the drivers as well as the passengers," Transport minister Meegan Fitzharris said.
The new ACTION buses will be blue, while trams will be red. Photo: Katie Burgess .
The government will buy 80 new buses over the next four years as it expands the ACT bus network.
"Labor made commitments for new bus services, new rapid services, two of them starting next year one from Belconnen to Gungahlin and the other from Woden to the city and we'll be adding more rapid services over the coming years," Ms Fitzharris said.
"That'll require buying new buses over the course of the next term of government so we can continue to have a fleet that's sustainable."
Passengers along new rapid ACTION bus routes will receive a free two-month trial, she said.
Canberra bus spotter Brock Ginman, 18, turned out to see the first of the new fleet on Thursday. Photo: Katie Burgess .
Seniors and concession card holders will be able to travel for free on ACTION buses between 9am and 4.30pm and after 6pm Monday to Friday, and all weekend, in an expansion of their election commitment.
In the year to July, ACTION had 415 buses in service, including 303 wheelchair accessible buses and 356 buses fitted with bike racks.
Transport Canberra deputy director-general Duncan Edghill said the new buses would seat two extra people and complement the three electric buses hitting Canberra roads next year.
"The new buses will seat additional people, make for a smoother ride for our customers, it has additional hand holders, the heating system is improved and the new buses have a disability component," Mr Edghill said.
The existing network of orange buses will be phased out as the new fleet comes on line, he said.
"Some of the orange buses are nearing the end of their useful life. Some of them are between 15 and 20 years old and the average life of a bus is between the 20 and 25 year mark so you'll begin to see the phasing out of those buses. Those buses are typically disposed of or used in other networks in Australia," he said.
The new bus attracted a lot of attention while parked outside Civic Square on Thursday.
Bus enthusiast Brock Ginman, 18, travelled especially to see it after a tip-off from a mate.
"I'm a bus enthusiast. I've been fascinated by buses since I was three," Mr Ginman said, as he photographed it.
http://www.theage.com.au/act-news/new-a ... tbhgk.html
“Try carving your name into that! The sides/back of seats of the new ACTION buses are vandal proof pic.twitter.com/ZHP7XDGTdo” — Katie Burgess December 14, 2016 .
with three photos
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Re: Transport Canberra

Postby tonyp » Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:37 am

Bustech with a single-leaf centre door with steps. Doh. The disease has spread from Sydney. :roll:

And smoother ride? The Sydney ones have a terrible ride.

Where's MB with that nice 100% low floor Citaro artic they were floating a while ago?
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Re: Transport Canberra

Postby The King of Buses » Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:24 pm

tonyp wrote:Where's MB with that nice 100% low floor Citaro artic they were floating a while ago?


That was part of the Libs policy...so no Citaro artics given Labor got elected. On the plus side, we have LR coming... :)

While I am yet undecided on the Bustech VSTs for here (maybe cause I haven't had a chance to ride it yet - only a look at 622 during the launch), ACTION (Transport Canberra) haven't always been the best at buying "good buses", as such. Just look at our Renault PR100.3, Dennis Dart and Irisbus Agoraline fleets! These Bustechs shall hopefully at least be an improvement in terms of build quality over the plastic panelled Custom bodied buses we've got making up our whole "green bus" fleet (not that I don't like riding a Scania L94UB CNG with CB60 bodywork which sounds/feels as if it will shake and rattle itself to pieces at any moment!).
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Re: Transport Canberra

Postby Punchbowl Tiger Cub » Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:39 pm

Times have moved on from the past purchasing polices and quality Euro VI vehicles have been purchased with either Customs or in this case Bustech bodies.Just because certain members of the ATDB can't stand Bustech doesn't mean they are not quality product - they are and also just be thankful they are bodied here in Australia
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Re: Transport Canberra

Postby Lt. Commander Data » Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:15 pm

TonyP does have a point though, the VST/XDi is a small step backwards with steps to the middle door. Still, it's not a CB80, so no other complaints from me.
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Re: Transport Canberra

Postby tonyp » Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:12 pm

Punchbowl Tiger Cub wrote:Times have moved on from the past purchasing polices and quality Euro VI vehicles have been purchased with either Customs or in this case Bustech bodies.Just because certain members of the ATDB can't stand Bustech doesn't mean they are not quality product - they are and also just be thankful they are bodied here in Australia

As I've said before, there is no argument about Bustech's build quality or the fact that it's built in Australia. The problem is that having steps at any doors in a citybus nowadays is an anachronism and an impediment to the accessibility, safety and operational efficiency of the bus. The industry just doesn't seem to get it. This bus shouldn't even be in the buy list for any urban operator. It would, however, make a good one (front) door rural bus.

I find the single leaf centre door also a curiosity for a major urban operator. I don't know what use is made of the centre door in Canberra buses but I imagine they would get crowded enough that you'd be wanting pretty fast two-abreast, or at least zipper passenger exchange through all doors. Specification should also make provision for possible use of other doors for boarding as well as exit. First cab off the rank in this regard would be the free city circulator bus that is now becoming common in many Australia cities. In Perth for example they use both doors for boarding.

Both stairs and single-leaf doors are an impediment to improving efficiency and amenity.
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Re: Transport Canberra

Postby Punchbowl Tiger Cub » Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:58 pm

Agree or disagree but the new Canberra Bustech bodied Scanias were subject of selection by tender to specifications supplied by the customer.

Thus the customer selected as suitable to meet the specifications and ordered accordingly.They wouldn't have ordered if they did not think they were not suitable for their requirements.They also must be capable of withstanding and operating 25 years service.So I guess they are going to be stuck with them until 2042

Whilst we are at it,a certain south coast operator is operating those completely unsuitable one door rural buses on the Illawarra Rail Shutdown this weekend
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Re: Transport Canberra

Postby tonyp » Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:16 pm

Yes I also realise that the supplier has simply complied with the operator's rather slack requirements. I'm continually disappointed with the way agencies and operators in the major operating areas (with the notable exception of Perth) simply don't understand some of the basic standards for effective mass transit, but there we go. One outcome is that it has boosted the case for light rail sooner than necessary and of course that's what is happening in Canberra. The Citaro artic concept floated by the Liberals provides a clear demonstration of the level to which citybus operations need to lift their game if they're not to be replaced by trams sooner than necessary.

I saw the livery on the south coast rail replacements but didn't see whether it was Nowra Coaches or Premier Illawarra. I don't see a problem with one-door buses on an interurban bustitution because it's long distance, requiring more seating, and passenger exchange would be very low compared to a city operation.

Nowra is a country town where one-door buses are fine. Yes, Wollongong should require more two-door buses but patronage on most routes is rather low. On the one route where things are running hot, the Gong Shuttle, TfNSW has supplied them with much more suitable (though still inadequate) two door Volgren Optimus with double leaf doors and low floor covering the doors to rear axle. I would have thought this configuration should be the minimum standard for Canberra.

Incidentally, I was riding the Gong Shuttle one day and the bus was a substituted Bustech. The driver wasn't opening the centre door because a passenger had tripped on the step and with only one door the run was increasingly chaotic and dropped out of schedule. When I spoke with the operator later they said they couldn't manage the service without the Volgrens but when some were out for maintenance they didn't have a choice but to substitute. They said their drivers told them it was a struggle with any other bus. They're getting to the point where they need artics. People are also starting to board through the centre door even though it's not encouraged. The Bustech is simply not up to this sort of work.
Last edited by tonyp on Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Transport Canberra

Postby Bus 400 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:18 pm

Punchbowl Tiger Cub wrote:Agree or disagree but the new Canberra Bustech bodied Scanias were subject of selection by tender to specifications supplied by the customer.


Technically the Custom body was won by tender, the Bustech body were selected through a Deed Of Variation to the contract.

tonyp wrote:Specification should also make provision for possible use of other doors for boarding as well as exit. First cab off the rank in this regard would be the free city circulator bus that is now becoming common in many Australia cities. In Perth for example they use both doors for boarding.


Transport Canberra allow boarding through all doors on the free city loop as well.

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Re: Transport Canberra

Postby tonyp » Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:31 pm

Bus 400 wrote:
Transport Canberra allow boarding through all doors on the free city loop as well.

Good to hear. What bus models are they using on the run? I'd recommend keeping the Bustechs away from it. Based on observation of the Perth CAT and the Gong Shuttle I'd recommend that minimum standard of low floor through to rear axle and both doors double-leaf. Some services on the above get so busy they could even use something like the Carbridge 3 door Optares.
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Re: Transport Canberra

Postby Newcastle Flyer » Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:43 pm

Lt. Commander Data wrote:From the Transit Graphics Facebook page. Not sure if you need an account to view.

I've found a way around that. Put "m." minus the quotes before facebook.com in the URL name.
"
So most are saying "Canberra = Planned City, but Transport = Adhoc??

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Re: Transport Canberra

Postby Bus 400 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:06 pm

tonyp wrote:
Bus 400 wrote:
Transport Canberra allow boarding through all doors on the free city loop as well.

Good to hear. What bus models are they using on the run? I'd recommend keeping the Bustechs away from it. Based on observation of the Perth CAT and the Gong Shuttle I'd recommend that minimum standard of low floor through to rear axle and both doors double-leaf. Some services on the above get so busy they could even use something like the Carbridge 3 door Optares.


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Re: Transport Canberra

Postby tonyp » Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:52 am

Bus 400 wrote:
Denis Darts

Isn't that a one-door bus? They can't be expecting many passengers.

I guess you certainly could say that it's "all-door loading" - though all one door. :?

Out of interest, what's the busiest service in Canberra? Gong Shuttle is moving up to 18,000 people a day.
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Re: Transport Canberra

Postby Bus 400 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:56 pm

It was a little tongue in cheek comment.

The busiest would be the Blue Rapid services by far, but because the data is grouped by routes (300,313,314,315,316,343) on their entire length (suburb to far away bus station). But the average passengers for each journey for the second half of 2015 was 40-50 passengers.
Next up is the Red Rapid services, mainly 200 but also includes 251,252,254,255,259 with an average of 30-40.

The data can be found at https://performance.action.act.gov.au/e ... -38hs/view , so far the last actual ACTION Buses Web page.

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Re: Transport Canberra

Postby Off The Rails » Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:51 pm

tonyp wrote:Good to hear. What bus models are they using on the run? I'd recommend keeping the Bustechs away from it. Based on observation of the Perth CAT and the Gong Shuttle I'd recommend that minimum standard of low floor through to rear axle and both doors double-leaf. Some services on the above get so busy they could even use something like the Carbridge 3 door Optares.

The Perth CAT buses aren't low floor to rear axle. Standard Optimus buses, but shortened.

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Re: Transport Canberra

Postby tonyp » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:01 am

Off The Rails wrote:The Perth CAT buses aren't low floor to rear axle. Standard Optimus buses, but shortened.

Cheers! :wink:

I was probably being a bit loose in my language. I meant low floor to the rear of the centre door - which isn't actually that far from the rear axle.

At the top of the hierarchy of desirable features is fully low floor (except for seat plinths) right to the back. Failing that, at least to the rear axle or, failing that, at least to the rear of the last centre door (saying "last" means to include artics). For whatever its shortcomings were (I believe mechanical rather than layout issues), the Agoraline at least has a fully low floor. The Bustech XDi/VST with steps at the centre door is a fail as an urban bus. It's worth noting that it wouldn't even be allowed for purchase in Perth under PTA WA's minimum specification standards.

We're so far behind in Australia. The first fully low floor (now the standard) citybuses in Europe from more than 20 years ago are starting to be retired and we haven't even reached that point, with a few rare exceptions.
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Re: Transport Canberra

Postby Linto63 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:54 pm

Maybe things have improved, but when I rode Citaros in Europe about 10 years ago, the ride quality was awful. They couldn't get rid of them quickly enough in London.
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Re: Transport Canberra

Postby tonyp » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:19 pm

Linto63 wrote:Maybe things have improved, but when I rode Citaros in Europe about 10 years ago, the ride quality was awful. They couldn't get rid of them quickly enough in London.

Things have improved out of sight with the various brands on the market and imho Citaro has not been one of the best in the past, but that might have changed. There's one in Brisbane to try out (assuming it's still there) if anyone wants to reach their own conclusions. I've had quite a bit of time riding these low floors over the cobblestones of old European cities and they're pretty good even on that. There's nothing in Australia to quite match cobblestones!

I think TfL had an internal tussle between those who wanted to move into the modern age with multi-door, all-door entry buses like the rest of Europe and the traditionalists and the latter won out. I don't think it was given a chance with the institutionalised prejudice against it.
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Re: Transport Canberra

Postby Lt. Commander Data » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:31 pm

tonyp wrote: There's nothing in Australia to quite match cobblestones!


Disagreed. Heathfield Road, Heathfield and Glen Osmond Road, Glenunga, Frewville, Parkside, Glen Osmond, Eastwood come to mind as being shocking. Also South Road between Richmond Road and Anzac Highway. And that's only in a few areas of one Coty!
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Re: Transport Canberra

Postby The Phonj » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:12 pm

Lt. Commander Data wrote:Disagreed. Heathfield Road, Heathfield and Glen Osmond Road, Glenunga, Frewville, Parkside, Glen Osmond, Eastwood come to mind as being shocking. Also South Road between Richmond Road and Anzac Highway. And that's only in a few areas of one Coty!


Have you tried West Thebarton Rd/Phillips St, Thebarton (286/287/288 routes)???? That one's a shocker!
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Re: Transport Canberra

Postby The King of Buses » Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:03 pm

BUS.622 entered service today wearing the new TC Bus livery.
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Re: Transport Canberra

Postby busrider » Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:11 am

The Phonj wrote:
Lt. Commander Data wrote:Disagreed. Heathfield Road, Heathfield and Glen Osmond Road, Glenunga, Frewville, Parkside, Glen Osmond, Eastwood come to mind as being shocking. Also South Road between Richmond Road and Anzac Highway. And that's only in a few areas of one Coty!


Have you tried West Thebarton Rd/Phillips St, Thebarton (286/287/288 routes)???? That one's a shocker!


Goodwood Road... That is all.
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Re: Transport Canberra

Postby Lt. Commander Data » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:51 pm

The second VST has arrived in Canberra - fleet number 623. Photos taken of Bustech's Facebook page. Looks suspiciously flat floored to me, even after the centre door, despite what has been said on this board and seen in other Cities. A good improvement methinks.

https://www.facebook.com/Bustech.Pty.Ltd/posts/1513611165325531
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Re: Transport Canberra

Postby tonyp » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:16 pm

I think that's just a standard Bustech with high floor (except at the front door) and steps at the centre door. The new Adelaide one is a proper low-entry with a stepless centre door but they haven't changed the high window-line so passengers in several rows of seats apparently can't see out, going by photos on the same Facebook page.

It would be good to have photos through the open centre door in both citîes to confirm these observations.
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Re: Transport Canberra

Postby Fleet Lists » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:00 pm

Looks suspiciously flat floored to me,
I dont think so - there is at least one very clear step.
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