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Things to see in Perth's transport for an interstate visitor

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Things to see in Perth's transport for an interstate visitor

Postby Glen » Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:49 pm

Hello

I'll be visiting Perth for a couple of weekdays soon (before a wedding), first time in several years.

Just wondered if anyone had any particular suggestions of recent transport developments that I should see on the train, bus and ferry network?

Thankyou for any advice.
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Re: Things to see in Perth's transport for an interstate vis

Postby sylar » Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:49 pm

Hi Glen,

The new underground Perth Busport located near the corner of Wellington St and William Street is a must to see and experience with its dynamic stand allocation system which is the first of its kind built in Australia. I use this facility every day of the working week and have been very happy with it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perth_Busport

The Elizabeth Quay inlet includes a new ferry terminal for the Transperth Ferries which is also very nice.

There are currently a couple of trains projects under construction with a new station being built in Aubin Grove on the Mandurah Line and the major project of the new Perth Stadium Station being built on the Armadale Line.
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Re: Things to see in Perth's transport for an interstate vis

Postby Mr OC Benz » Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:21 pm

There has been significant transport developments over the years. Depending on when you were last here, the Mandurah Line opened at end of 2007.

In more recent times, the Perth City Link transport component was recently completed this year. It involved the sinking of the Fremantle Line from Perth Station to Perth Arena, construction of a new platform at Perth Station and a new underpass connecting all of Perth platforms to the Perth Underground platforms. It also involved the demolition of the existing above ground bus station and construction of the new underground Perth Busport. There is still construction work happening in the area (for the other components of the project), but Perth Busport is within short walk of Perth Station and the CBD.

The new Perth Busport opened in July and operates a dynamic stand allocation system similar to an airport. It takes into consideration all the variabilities and allocates a stand (within a set group of stands) or layover bay based on those considerations to ensure maximum efficiency of the facility is achieved. I'd say if you're short for time, this is a must-see at least.

The Butler extension on the Joondalup Line opened in 2014. Butler Station is perhaps one of the more attractive designed stations on the urban rail network (the new stadium station will come close though). It has a bus interchange immediately adjacent for feeder bus services and a new shopping centre/Main Street is soon to be built directly adjacent to the station. Butler is 37 minutes from Perth by train.

In January 2016, Elizabeth Quay opened, and along with it, a new Transperth ferry jetty and renaming of the bus and train station into a consolidated precinct.

These are the major transport infrastructure developments over recent years, but there has also been significant upgrades to the service aspect.

The delivery of new railcars is almost complete. The very latest of these are now fitted with USB charging ports (some buses also now have them too).

The metropolitan (and regional) bus fleet has undergone massive renewal with buses which were in service for nearly 30 years withdrawn. There are still some old articulated buses (and a handful of rigids), but not many. Most buses will now be withdrawn at or before the age of 18. Every bus now goes through a mid-life refurbishment around 8-10 years of age too, so most of what you see will look at the very least, refreshing if not reasonably new.

The third generation Perth CAT fleet is being rolled out as we speak, with the new Volvo B8RLE Euro 6 Volgren buses replacing older Mercedes CNG buses which are being refurbished and transferred to suburban operations. These operate on four free CAT routes within the Perth CBD roughly every 3-8 minutes during the day depending on the route.

Also on that note, all public transport services within the Perth CBD are free provided the journey is made entirely within the Free Transit Zone (FTZ). For trains, this is only accessible with a smartrider, but for buses, no ticket is required.

If you wish to get around by public transport in and beyond the Perth CBD, here's some quick notes:
- all train lines operate every 15 mins or better during the day (everyday)
- bus routes in the 900 number range (except 955/6) are high frequency routes that operate every 15 mins or better during the day (everyday). The ferry also provides a high frequency service in Summer everyday into the late evening
- a number of other bus routes provide high frequency services on weekdays only and sometimes Saturdays, in addition to corridors with multiple bus routes that are coordinated along the common sector to maximise frequency
- CAT services are free and operate in Perth, Fremantle and Joondalup (in addition to all bus/train services being free within Perth CBD as per above)
- ticketing system is fully integrated with your ticket or smartrider fare valid for 2-3 hours (except two-section ticket) on any mode.

I think that provides a brief overview on what to expect, but if you have any specific questions, someone here should be able to answer them.
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Re: Things to see in Perth's transport for an interstate vis

Postby simonl » Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:11 pm

sylar wrote:The new underground Perth Busport located near the corner of Wellington St and William Street is a must to see and experience with its dynamic stand allocation system which is the first of its kind built in Australia. I use this facility every day of the working week and have been very happy with it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perth_Busport


Thanks sylar.

Just went down there. It is slightly different to what has been tried before in Australia, at least as far as I have seen of other locations, but it is also somewhat similar to Bondi Junction, Sydney and King George Square, Brisbane. The main point of difference in the Perth treatment is the concept of stand range. On the East coast, you know for certain that route x will pull up to stand y at an underground station. In Perth, a range of 4 stands is assigned to given routes. 4 stands seems like a large number to me. That is about the size of most of Brisbane's outdoor busway stations which do not create the best experience. Perhaps not too bad when the buses usually pull up to one of the front two stands - not the case at the Cultural Centre or Buranda, Qld in peak hour especially but even off peak sometimes in the former case.

Might try and catch a bus in peak hour to see how well it works then.
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Re: Things to see in Perth's transport for an interstate vis

Postby Glen » Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:33 pm

Mr OC Benz wrote:There has been significant transport developments over the years. Depending on when you were last here, the Mandurah Line opened at end of 2007.

Thanks so much Mr OC Benz, that is a great review and will give me plenty to see! :D
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Re: Things to see in Perth's transport for an interstate vis

Postby Mr OC Benz » Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:51 pm

simonl wrote: In Perth, a range of 4 stands is assigned to given routes. 4 stands seems like a large number to me. That is about the size of most of Brisbane's outdoor busway stations which do not create the best experience. Perhaps not too bad when the buses usually pull up to one of the front two stands - not the case at the Cultural Centre or Buranda, Qld in peak hour especially but even off peak sometimes in the former case.

Might try and catch a bus in peak hour to see how well it works then.

The whole idea from having the range of stands is that they can be efficiently allocated so that you don't have situations where there are two buses at one stand at the same time or an articulated bus blocking access to another stand as examples. Really if they wanted to make it super efficient, they could just not bother with having any set stands at all, but this would be of significant inconvenience to passengers. Most new bus stations (that are used as a terminus) in Perth are generally designed for there to be approx one stand per 1-2 routes depending on frequency and whether they are part of a coordinated corridor of multiple routes or not..

I believe there were some teething issues when it initially opened as the system adjusted to real life scenarios, but upon my use of the facility in late September, and from what friends tell me, it is working quite well, even in peak hour. It is likely the system will be implemented at other bus stations in the future to maximise efficiency (rather than the time and cost consuming method of having to find scarce land to expand all the time).
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Re: Things to see in Perth's transport for an interstate vis

Postby simonl » Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:03 pm

I submit that two stands per group would be a better trade off.

I understand the swings and roundabouts of that - 4 stands is just too many if they are busy with people needing to walk more than the length of the bus to reach the front or even nearest door under certain circumstances. It's a bit different at a terminus station but probably more in the direction of 4 stands being even worse. The downside, as you point out is that there is a chance that a bus can arrive with both stands being used. Surely they don't have stands too short for artics serving routes which artics operate?

Have you used the busway stations in Brisbane? Should show you what to expect when busy.
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Re: Things to see in Perth's transport for an interstate vis

Postby Mr OC Benz » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:21 pm

Each stand is designed and large enough to fit articulated buses with three doors. But it makes more sense if say there are two artics to leave spacing in between. I know it means catering for the lowest common denominator in terms of driving quality, but it reduces any risk and hazards that could otherwise arise, especially if there is a stand to spare.

Passengers are given 3-5 mins warning of when a stand has been allocated for a service, so it's not as if the four stands is a major inconvenience. Although I reckon it would've been smarter had the four sets of stands been opposite each other rather than in order all on one side. That way you're essentially compacting the potential walking distance to just a few metres.

Yes I've used the busway stations. Cultural Centre in peak hour when there are 4-5 buses on stand and another few waiting behind! I can see your thinking from this, but those sorts of problems won't arise at Perth Busport as passengers will at least know a few mins in advance where the bus will stop. In Brisbane, its more of a guessing game, then holding up buses even longer while walking/running up to the correct one.
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Re: Things to see in Perth's transport for an interstate vis

Postby simonl » Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:04 am

Hmm, I guess the 3-5 mins warning, if it works out reliably, should allay most of my concerns.
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Re: Things to see in Perth's transport for an interstate vis

Postby Lt. Commander Data » Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:30 am

Thanks for that overview Mr OC Benz. At this stage I've never been to Perth (furtherest west in Australia is Cednua, and that was only a few weeks back), but I have always wanted to visit. I think Perth probably does have the best PT network in the country, there always seems to be money spent on it - the BusPort is a very clever innovation.

Mr OC Benz wrote:f you wish to get around by public transport in and beyond the Perth CBD, here's some quick notes:
- all train lines operate every 15 mins or better during the day (everyday)
- bus routes in the 900 number range (except 955/6) are high frequency routes that operate every 15 mins or better during the day (everyday). The ferry also provides a high frequency service in Summer everyday into the late evening
- a number of other bus routes provide high frequency services on weekdays only and sometimes Saturdays, in addition to corridors with multiple bus routes that are coordinated along the common sector to maximise frequency
- CAT services are free and operate in Perth, Fremantle and Joondalup (in addition to all bus/train services being free within Perth CBD as per above)
- ticketing system is fully integrated with your ticket or smartrider fare valid for 2-3 hours (except two-section ticket) on any mode.


Those frequencies broke my small town brain. Trains every 15mins on Sundays and Public Holidays? Some of our lines only operate every hour on those days. The only comparable thing in Adelaide is the O-Bahn, which they've managed to screw up anyway (you have 5 or so buses every 15mins, but they're not offset, so you can go 5mins without seeing a bus, then 2 come at once :roll: ). Even on Sundays, there is 4 buses an hour, but operate to a 00/23/30/53 timetable.

Anyway, thanks once again for that overview, it was most informative.
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Re: Things to see in Perth's transport for an interstate vis

Postby Glen » Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:56 am

Thanks Everyone for the great information, that is so helpful.

In terms of tickets, for my touring around outside of the free City area it seems that my best bet is a $12.40 DayRider giving unlimited travel after 9am.

I presume I can buy this as a cash ticket somewhere?

For example when I arrive at the Domestic Airport can I buy one on the bus (Route 40 or 935 it seems)?

I'd like to try the SmartRider card but it seems that I can't buy one at the Airport so by the time I was travelling on a second day I'm not sure if it would be worthwhile.

Nonetheless I gather I can buy a SmartRider at the main city stations or ticket agencies, and then top up as required. I'd need to make sure I didn't oversubscribe.

Autoload would seem inappropriate as I'm only there a few days.

Does that all sound right?

My itinerary basically is:

Day 1 arrive Domestic Airport, afternoon & evening travelling around
Day 2 all day travelling around after 9am
Day 3 unsure, possibly only within the free city area or nearby
Day 4 no travel
Day 5 one trip within City, then bus back to Airport

Thanks again.
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Re: Things to see in Perth's transport for an interstate vis

Postby Mr OC Benz » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:11 am

Yes if you commence travel after 9, DayRider is probably best bet. You can buy from all ticket machines and bus drivers. Just have small denomination for the driver as they can only give a maximum of $10 change. Unfortunately no SmartRider at the airport. It's probably not worth getting one for the short amount of time that you are in Perth (unless you want it as a collectible or for future use).

You can buy SmartRider from various retail outlets and at the four InfoCentres in the Perth CBD. Autoload is probably not worth the hassle for such a short visit. If you do get one, you can top up at retail outlets, on any bus (no change given) and at some train stations if need be.

Yes LT Data, trains run every 15 mins on Sundays on all lines (except at Thornlie station which is only half hourly). Between Perth and Cannington on the Armadale-Thornlie Line, trains are every 15 mins from first service until midnight including Sunday nights. Other lines and on high frequency bus routes are typically only every 15 mins till around 7pm on Sundays, then reduced frequency thereafter.
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Re: Things to see in Perth's transport for an interstate vis

Postby simonl » Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:06 pm

Most other states allow their smart cards to be mailed to you and are also available at the airport. Hmm.
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Re: Things to see in Perth's transport for an interstate vis

Postby Merc1107 » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:06 pm

I think the others have pretty much summarised the current situation here in Perth.

Some other suggestions:
- Keep an eye out for the last CNG rigids (O405 high-floor) in service, and catch them if you can. These are on borrowed time. You're looking for 1098, 1101 or 1102. These are usually well worth a ride, their 5sp (really 6sp, but restricted to 5) Allisons and a modern CNG fueling setup make these very zippy.
- If CNG O405NH's are your thing, we've got a double-selection. Mostly original, naturally-aspirated examples at Palmyra depot (1797-1819) and Transcom NGVS turbocharged at Malaga depot (1777-1796).
- If you like Renaults, the 1500hrs 241 from Kelmscott has 726, perhaps the best example left in service running. Otherwise, hanging about Fremantle, Bull-Creek or Elizabeth Quay should yield other examples.
- Volvo B8 (Volgren Optimus) and B12 articulated (CR228L) buses are also well-worth a ride, as are the B8 CATS in-service.

There are also a number of 27xx series Volvo B7 rigids with the ZF transmission. Much like their Voith counterparts, they have their positives and negatives. I don't tend to favour either. That said, I have found the Volgren Optimus bodywork to be rather photogenic.
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Re: Things to see in Perth's transport for an interstate vis

Postby Mr OC Benz » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:16 pm

simonl wrote:Most other states allow their smart cards to be mailed to you and are also available at the airport. Hmm.

All other SmartRider types are ordered by form/online and thus arrive in the mail or to your school. But the cards double up for other purposes (WA seniors card, student ID etc) and hence need to be specially printed. Would be handy if the airport at least had them, but in the 10+ years SmartRider has been in use, it hasn't been a noticeable issue. I guess because there are alternative options and that if someone really wanted one, they could just pay a cash fare into the CBD and pick it up from there.
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Re: Things to see in Perth's transport for an interstate vis

Postby simonl » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:43 pm

I submit that it is a noticeable issue. Last I checked, smartrider use is not much above 80%. So still 1 in 7 or near enough still slow down the system (particularly buses) by using cash fares. Annoying!
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Re: Things to see in Perth's transport for an interstate vis

Postby Merc1107 » Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:24 pm

simonl wrote:I submit that it is a noticeable issue. Last I checked, smartrider use is not much above 80%. So still 1 in 7 or near enough still slow down the system (particularly buses) by using cash fares. Annoying!

I see no issue with tickets, provided those purchasing them bother to have the correct change available. Those with Smart-Riders can quite easily slow things down.

It does irritate me occasionally when the service is already running late, then someone without correct change (not just 10, 20 or 50c out) flags the bus, requests the ramp, fumbles about trying to find money and inconveniences other passengers. I understand sometimes you can't be prepared for everything, but some spend plenty of time at the stop prior to arrange their cash or retrieve their smart-rider.

For the record, I don't have an issue with the ramp itself, as it increases accessibility. It just seems at times those making use of are coincidentally unprepared for the buses arrival.
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Re: Things to see in Perth's transport for an interstate vis

Postby Mr OC Benz » Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:11 pm

simonl wrote:I submit that it is a noticeable issue. Last I checked, smartrider use is not much above 80%. So still 1 in 7 or near enough still slow down the system (particularly buses) by using cash fares. Annoying!

Yes I agree on that point for initial boardings. Thankfully mostly confined to outside of peak hours in most areas. But I was referring to the airport not having SmartRiders for sale not being a noticeable issue.
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Re: Things to see in Perth's transport for an interstate vis

Postby Hawkeye » Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:24 am

Mr OC Benz wrote:The metropolitan (and regional) bus fleet has undergone massive renewal with buses which were in service for nearly 30 years withdrawn. There are still some old articulated buses (and a handful of rigids), but not many. Most buses will now be withdrawn at or before the age of 18. Every bus now goes through a mid-life refurbishment around 8-10 years of age too, so most of what you see will look at the very least, refreshing if not reasonably new.

Interesting that Perth's approx age of bus retirement is 18.. Here in Adelaide, we average around 24-25 and in some cases even up to 26 years before they get withdrawn. A significant difference between the two cities :shock:
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Re: Things to see in Perth's transport for an interstate vis

Postby simonl » Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:40 am

Really? I think it's 25 in NSW and up to 25 in Qld (inspection needed at 20)
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Re: Things to see in Perth's transport for an interstate vis

Postby simonl » Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:43 am

Mr OC Benz wrote:But I was referring to the airport not having SmartRiders for sale not being a noticeable issue.

My point was that the lower than average availability of the SmartRiders contributes to the lower than average smart card use.

Merc1107 wrote:I see no issue with tickets, provided those purchasing them bother to have the correct change available. Those with Smart-Riders can quite easily slow things down.

Hmm, Just gotten here. I'll have to take notice of this one.
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Re: Things to see in Perth's transport for an interstate vis

Postby TP1462 » Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:44 am

If you're planning on going out of the suburban area the Australind service to Bunbury is well worth the day trip maybe try out some of the TransBunbury services, the Prospector service to Kalgoorlie is another one but that's more an overnight trip than a day trip


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Re: Things to see in Perth's transport for an interstate vis

Postby Lt. Commander Data » Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:52 am

Hawkeye wrote:Interesting that Perth's approx age of bus retirement is 18.. Here in Adelaide, we average around 24-25 and in some cases even up to 26 years before they get withdrawn. A significant difference between the two cities :shock:


You won't see any more buses reaching 26 years in service - state law says that buses in public service must be removed at 25 years of age (or words to that affect). As vehicles can't get historical registration until they are 30 years old, there is going to be a 5-year gap in good buses in teh near future.

That being said, some buses saw 30 years service with the remaining few years on rail subs. That won't be happening again.
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Re: Things to see in Perth's transport for an interstate vis

Postby boronia » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:45 pm

Merc1107 wrote:

It does irritate me occasionally when the service is already running late, then someone without correct change (not just 10, 20 or 50c out) flags the bus, requests the ramp, fumbles about trying to find money and inconveniences other passengers. I understand sometimes you can't be prepared for everything, but some spend plenty of time at the stop prior to arrange their cash or retrieve their smart-rider.

For the record, I don't have an issue with the ramp itself, as it increases accessibility. It just seems at times those making use of are coincidentally unprepared for the buses arrival.

When I was in Perth recently, I noticed that drivers would put out the ramp for any passengers who appeared likely to need it. Not just wheelchairs but even those with obvious/possible mobility problems. I thought this was a nice touch, even if it did slow things down a bit. At least the electric drive relieved the driver of having to get up and manually deploy it as in Sydney. This sort of customer focused attitude helps attract passengers.
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Re: Things to see in Perth's transport for an interstate vis

Postby boronia » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:49 pm

I was also impressed by the innovative and functional interchanges at some stations.
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