WA Transport General Discussion & Questions - 2016

Perth / Western Australia Transport Discussion

Moderators: perthbus, Mr OC Benz

User avatar
Off The Rails
Posts: 1247
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:47 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Anything with an engine brake
Location: No where near the Gutta

Re: WA Transport General Discussion & Questions - 2016

Post by Off The Rails »

Proper definition is F (Foxtrot/From) and T (Tango/To). If there are any timetabled diversions, the destination screen has a scroll for it (eg if a 220 service from Armadale to Perth has a diversion into Armadale Hospital, nothing is displayed besides a destination scroll which says 'Via Armadale Hospital', but if another 220 doesn't go into the hospital, it doesn't have the aforementioned scroll). Our numbers on the high floors and the non-Volvo low floors don't allow for 3 numbers and a letter, however on the Volvo's I'm not entirely sure.

Cheers! :wink:
Officially the last person to tag off the 381 - 20/5/16.
Second last person to tag off the last timetabled 16 - 23/08/19.
Last person to tag off a Transdev Joondalup service - 19/1/20.
User avatar
Lt. Commander Data
Posts: 2325
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:09 am
Favourite Vehicle: Scania L94UB
Location: Adelaide Hills

Re: WA Transport General Discussion & Questions - 2016

Post by Lt. Commander Data »

Off The Rails wrote:Proper definition is F (Foxtrot/From) and T (Tango/To). If there are any timetabled diversions, the destination screen has a scroll for it (eg if a 220 service from Armadale to Perth has a diversion into Armadale Hospital, nothing is displayed besides a destination scroll which says 'Via Armadale Hospital', but if another 220 doesn't go into the hospital, it doesn't have the aforementioned scroll). Our numbers on the high floors and the non-Volvo low floors don't allow for 3 numbers and a letter, however on the Volvo's I'm not entirely sure.

Cheers! :wink:
Thanks for the explanations Sylar and Off The Rails, makes sense. Does that mean short runs in Perth don't use letters at all? Little different to how things are done in Adelaide, where letters are over-used.

Even historically, we've used letters (from the 1960s ir so), with routes like the 10D, 10G, etc., so all of our older high-floors had 4 spaces for 3 letters and a number...). Funnily enough, when the route G10 (don't ask... :roll: ) was introduced, on the older high-floors they displayed 10G.

Anyway, better head off back across the Nullabor to SA, don't want to annoy anyone with more (obvious) questions...
First person on 822, 865 (2016 re-route).
Last person on 164, 867, 868
User avatar
busdriver12
Posts: 232
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:07 pm
Favourite Vehicle: One that doesn't break down!
Location: Byford

Re: WA Transport General Discussion & Questions - 2016

Post by busdriver12 »

Here's a replay of a post I did on the subject in 2008:

Foxtrot is the Phonetic Alphabet equivalent for the letter F. It was developed for use on low quality telephony (i.e. voice) transmission on transmission modes where audio quality was poor regardless of received signal strength. This is evident on AM (Amplitude Modulation) and SSB (Single Side Band) modes. However, most modern communications used on VHF and UHF bands use FM (Frequency Modulation). It was used as a spelling tool to convey exactly what the intent of the message is.

Considering bus companies' radios use FM, the quality is sufficient to make the use of the Phonetic Alphabet redundant. IIRC, it's use on Path Transit frequencies was started by an ex Karrinyup Depot co-ordinator who later became the company's radio co-ordinator, and would control the entire Path Radio system in the PM peak period. It used my make my skin crawl at the time (still does) as it's use is totally superfluous to getting the message across. When I was a Depot Co-ordinator at Karrinyup, I would instruct the driver that he/she was doing a run from Stirling to Warwick, or Joondalup to Whitfords etc etc. The necessity of whether it's an F or T run has been made redundant with the introduction of the Wayfarer TGX-150 ETIM where this information is already stored in it and is of no consequence to the driver nowadays.

As for the Phonetic Alphabet itself, there is enough background to be found Here on the subject.

Getting back to the original question, a route can either be an F or a T (From or To). This implies an origin point to determine whether the run is going From or To that point, and generally speaking any run takes it's origin point as the end of that run which is closest to the city. In the case of the original query (
423F), this tells you that it is going From the origin point of the run (i.e. the end of the run which is closest to the city) which means is it going from Stirling to Warwick. In the other direction (Warwick to Stirling) the same run would be a 423T (going To the origin point). Fremantle is another major origin point except for those runs which go to Perth, in which case the F direction is From Perth. This is much like the railways where the line being worked is either Up or Down using the same logic. There are of course exceptions to this rule and the circle route would be the most obvious one. The 99 is treated as an F route and the 98 treated as a T. Another exception is the 223 where the 223F has it's origin point at the end of the run furtherest away from the city (as opposed to the other way around which is the norm). I suspect there is some old MTT/Transperth history to this, but am not aware of it.

Since being with Swan, I rarely hear routes referred to as F's or T's (Foxtrots or Tangos) and I feel it is used by those who have little grasp of how to communicate effectively via 2-way radio.

As you may have guessed I do have a background in radio communications long before I got into the buses and it pains me to hear how much time and effort is wasted in the over use of the phonetic alphabet. Sorry if I come across as a pedant, but radio communications has been a long time interest of mine and I hate the way it is often misused on commercial 2-way radio communications.

VK6KS
Last edited by busdriver12 on Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Phil

All views expressed are strictly my own and do not represent my employer or anyone else.
User avatar
sylar
Posts: 357
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:37 am
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: WA Transport General Discussion & Questions - 2016

Post by sylar »

Anyone in the know able to share where newbies 2627 - 2635 and 2714 - 2716 have ended up ?
User avatar
TP1106
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:34 am
Favourite Vehicle: TP1106, 1114 and 754.
Location: Perth, Western Australia - The capital city of the world's worst drivers!

Re: WA Transport General Discussion & Questions - 2016

Post by TP1106 »

2626-2635 are B8s on Perth Cats.
0405's are awesome!!
User avatar
Merc & Renault Bus_1
Posts: 272
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:56 pm
Location: Perth, WA

Re: WA Transport General Discussion & Questions - 2016

Post by Merc & Renault Bus_1 »

sylar wrote:Anyone in the know able to share where newbies 2627 - 2635 and 2714 - 2716 have ended up ?
2629, 2631, 2633 & 2634 are in Claisebrook
pasha241
Posts: 420
Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:47 pm

Re: WA Transport General Discussion & Questions - 2016

Post by pasha241 »

anyone one which old bus that still left at morley depot. and also is 662 still at morley depot (as a private path bus have a green path livery) cz i saw in google maps they have 662 parked in the back of malaga depot which they take the photo around august last year (sorry is a bit silly to see something just in google maps but i just curious)
User avatar
TP1106
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:34 am
Favourite Vehicle: TP1106, 1114 and 754.
Location: Perth, Western Australia - The capital city of the world's worst drivers!

Re: WA Transport General Discussion & Questions - 2016

Post by TP1106 »

pasha241 wrote:anyone one which old bus that still left at morley depot. and also is 662 still at morley depot (as a private path bus have a green path livery) cz i saw in google maps they have 662 parked in the back of malaga depot which they take the photo around august last year (sorry is a bit silly to see something just in google maps but i just curious)
662 according to Perthbus.info has been disposed and 1097, 1098 and 1101 - 1104 are in service with PATH.
0405's are awesome!!
Mr OC Benz
Moderator
Posts: 5808
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:18 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Anything German
Location: Sydney, NSW

Re: WA Transport General Discussion & Questions - 2016

Post by Mr OC Benz »

esperanceguy wrote:Currently in Perth and been travelling around a fair bit, I have one question out of a couple or so that I've been able to remember:

Route 888 Mirrabooka to Perth: what's the big idea of sending it down Dianella Drv/Morley Drv and the whole Alexander Drive loop-da-loop thing? [as opposed to the original direct down Dianella, chuck a right into Alexander, which IMHO is kinda quicker]
What do you mean? It used to go via Yirrigan Dr to Alexander Dr, but was changed to follow the MAX alignment. It's successor, Route 960 will also use the same alignment. Both versions of the 888 have always retained access to Dianella Plaza.
User avatar
Shoudy Chen
Posts: 434
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:55 am

Re: WA Transport General Discussion & Questions - 2016

Post by Shoudy Chen »

I know that Volvo B7RLE midis use green desto displays but in regards to B8RLEA buses why are they deploying white with different fonts?
Attachments
White displays on B8RLEA
White displays on B8RLEA
image.jpeg (104.04 KiB) Viewed 6853 times
User avatar
Off The Rails
Posts: 1247
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:47 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Anything with an engine brake
Location: No where near the Gutta

Re: WA Transport General Discussion & Questions - 2016

Post by Off The Rails »

Well, first off - 2623 (like the new Cat Optimus buses) aren't artics, so their B8RLE's. From memory, this is becoming standard on all buses new, with B7's 2636, 2523 and 2717 also having white desto's.

Cheers! :wink:
Officially the last person to tag off the 381 - 20/5/16.
Second last person to tag off the last timetabled 16 - 23/08/19.
Last person to tag off a Transdev Joondalup service - 19/1/20.
User avatar
Shoudy Chen
Posts: 434
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:55 am

Re: WA Transport General Discussion & Questions - 2016

Post by Shoudy Chen »

Off The Rails wrote:Well, first off - 2623 (like the new Cat Optimus buses) aren't artics, so their B8RLE's. From memory, this is becoming standard on all buses new, with B7's 2636, 2523 and 2717 also having white desto's.

Cheers! :wink:
Where will TP2636 go to?
User avatar
Merc & Renault Bus_1
Posts: 272
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:56 pm
Location: Perth, WA

Re: WA Transport General Discussion & Questions - 2016

Post by Merc & Renault Bus_1 »

Joondalup, it is already delivered there and in service
User avatar
BroadGauge
Posts: 3740
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:20 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Car
Location: NSW

Re: WA Transport General Discussion & Questions - 2016

Post by BroadGauge »

I remember hearing a few years ago that on some routes in Perth that buses have to be escorted by a security car through problematic neighbourhoods at night. Does that still go on, is it a widespread thing or just in a few dodgy areas?
User avatar
Merc & Renault Bus_1
Posts: 272
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:56 pm
Location: Perth, WA

Re: WA Transport General Discussion & Questions - 2016

Post by Merc & Renault Bus_1 »

BroadGauge wrote:I remember hearing a few years ago that on some routes in Perth that buses have to be escorted by a security car through problematic neighbourhoods at night. Does that still go on, is it a widespread thing or just in a few dodgy areas?
We still have security cars escorting buses in some services, and it is usually during afternoon peak and in evenings
User avatar
sylar
Posts: 357
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:37 am
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: WA Transport General Discussion & Questions - 2016

Post by sylar »

Merc & Renault Bus_1 wrote:
BroadGauge wrote:I remember hearing a few years ago that on some routes in Perth that buses have to be escorted by a security car through problematic neighbourhoods at night. Does that still go on, is it a widespread thing or just in a few dodgy areas?
We still have security cars escorting buses in some services, and it is usually during afternoon peak and in evenings
While the Roe St bus station was in operation I regularly saw the 888 during the afternoon peak with a security guard sitting on the back seat of the bus and his colleague following the bus in the car.
Mr OC Benz
Moderator
Posts: 5808
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:18 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Anything German
Location: Sydney, NSW

Re: WA Transport General Discussion & Questions - 2016

Post by Mr OC Benz »

BroadGauge wrote:I remember hearing a few years ago that on some routes in Perth that buses have to be escorted by a security car through problematic neighbourhoods at night. Does that still go on, is it a widespread thing or just in a few dodgy areas?
It does, but during the day they tend to hang around the bus stations more so than in patrol cars, but at night there's generally one or two patrol cars patrolling troubled contract areas. For areas like within the Claremont contract area or in inner urban areas, I'd suspect patrol cars probably overlap from nearby areas as there is generally less issues. But suburban areas within the Morley, Marmion and Joondalup contract areas for example it is not uncommon to see a couple (or more) patrol cars on duty at night until around midnight. Couldn't vouch for the southern areas but I'd say it'd be pretty similar resource provision.

They certainly always seem to be around (either at the bus stations or patrolling) whenever I'm out late at night. Quite comforting although there's never too many problems, I suspect that any less of a presence would cause problems to arise that were once common 10 years ago.

Transit Guards also do mobile patrols at night on the trains and around train stations, but they are also good for maintaining a presence at train/bus interchanges when Transperth Security are not around.
User avatar
Bus Suggestions
Posts: 814
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:05 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Something with a ZF Ecomat
Location: The West
Contact:

Re: WA Transport General Discussion & Questions - 2016

Post by Bus Suggestions »

I have 3 questions. First up, why can't the route 960, former 888, turn left to Grand Prom to get to Dianella & Morley Dr instead of backtracking via Alexander Dr E/B? Secondly, route 115 has two stands to Perth at Booragoon BS. Why is this? Last for the day, why can't the CAT Merc OC500LEs be cascaded to Fremantle/Joondalup for CAT uses there (take the O405NHs out of CAT services & put them in corporate livery)?
I'd post any important, bus-related links I had, but they're outdated anyways.
Merc1107
Posts: 2243
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:38 pm
Favourite Vehicle: MAN 18.310, MB O405NH, L94
Location: A Coastal City

Re: WA Transport General Discussion & Questions - 2016

Post by Merc1107 »

Bus Suggestions wrote:route 115 has two stands to Perth at Booragoon BS. Why is this?
This is probably related to the origin of the 115T service, and the layout of Booragoon bus station.

As you are probably aware, the 115T heads north along Risely St. before making a LH turn into Booragoon and onto the stands nearest the steps up to the shopping centre. So this stop makes it slightly closer for passengers headed to the complex, or those returning from it.
The second stop is after the LH turn onto Marmion. I suspect this is to allow transfers to/from the 501 onto the 115/114, or previous (now-defunct) Pre-SSR routes.

I don't think there is really a genuine reason for the double-stands at Booragoon. It seems to result from the station's design. The design probably does have the possibility of increasing a chance of accident, but seems to work well enough. For the record, most 115 services on weekdays I have used do make use of the second pickup point.
Bus Suggestions wrote:Last for the day, why can't the CAT Merc OC500LEs be cascaded to Fremantle/Joondalup for CAT uses there (take the O405NHs out of CAT services & put them in corporate livery)?
As I understand, the Ex. CAT buses have been used particularly to replace the CNG O405's at Malaga and Bayswater, although some have strayed elsewhere at PATH.

Being that CATS at Fremantle and Joondalup are "Midi" size as well, where and what would they do? Having these in normal revenue service might present issues due to their smaller size. They are approaching retirement age, but I doubt these are the top priority at this point in time.
Mr OC Benz
Moderator
Posts: 5808
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:18 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Anything German
Location: Sydney, NSW

Re: WA Transport General Discussion & Questions - 2016

Post by Mr OC Benz »

1. If it went via Grand Pron, it would miss out a major patronage generating stop located at Dianella Plaza. It's barely a backtrack anyway, adds 2 mins max. The stop is one of the busiest in the area too.
2. Because the bus stops both inside the bus station at a specific stand and outside the bus station at the "common stand" to Perth. Same as bus routes from EQ on D Road which also has a common stand at D1 for all/most routes. It's a convenience factor for passengers wanting a common/popular destination to just have to wait at one stand rather than running around trying to find the next bus and stand it departs from.
3. Joondalup does not have CNG facilities. Fremantle does however. When the NH's are withdrawn, they are likely to be at retirement age and not be cascaded down anyway.
maxy54
Posts: 517
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:36 pm

Re: WA Transport General Discussion & Questions - 2016

Post by maxy54 »

Sorry if it’s the wrong place to post this, but on perthbus.info I noticed that CAT Buses 1, 4-6 & TP1914-1917 are incorrectly listed in the disposals list despite all of them still being in service.
User avatar
Herbert
Posts: 4189
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:04 pm
Location: The Herbertery
Contact:

Re: WA Transport General Discussion & Questions - 2016

Post by Herbert »

Coz some burke forgot to clear a field in the database! :roll:
Get the gen, see the shots: www.perthbus.info
pasha241
Posts: 420
Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:47 pm

Re: WA Transport General Discussion & Questions - 2016

Post by pasha241 »

i want to ask you (sorry if this question more propriate to transperth itself)
1.Why cant 517 run until thornlie on sunday. is that because 30 minute train at thornlie.
2.why 212 is coordinate time 210/211. 212 only use the same way until thornlie square but 517 until warton road. i know that 517 is mainly for canning vale feeder. but if they coordinate with 210/211 it make it better for spencer road frequency

sorry if my question is nonsense
User avatar
Shoudy Chen
Posts: 434
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:55 am

Re: WA Transport General Discussion & Questions - 2016

Post by Shoudy Chen »

Plans for a new Circle Line Around Perth CBD.
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western ... m=Facebook
User avatar
sylar
Posts: 357
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:37 am
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: WA Transport General Discussion & Questions - 2016

Post by sylar »

Interesting to see today on perthbus.info that 0405NH CNG's 1772 - 1776 have been withdrawn and stored, anyone know why these Buses which were built in 2001 have been withdrawn over older O405NH's that were built in 1999 ?
Post Reply

Return to “Discussion - Perth / WA”