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Vic Park new service ideas

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Vic Park new service ideas

Postby User 11872 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:33 pm

Some ideas I've devised for Victoria Park.

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Full details of 188-189 and 220 on separate TTs
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Re: Vic Park new service ideas

Postby User 11872 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:38 pm

A tad clearer

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Re: Vic Park new service ideas

Postby jonwil » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:12 pm

As someone who (until recently) lived in that area, I like your thinking.
Under your proposal, what would happen to the 72 and 75? Would they remain unchanged or would you change those as well?
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Re: Vic Park new service ideas

Postby 102 at 1625 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:07 pm

More great timetables. I like all your ideas, especially your proposal that 177 should extends to Curtin University so that residents of Baldock Street and surrounding areas have access to buses to Curtin, which they do not have now, rather than route 176, which travels via Dumond Street, which is already connected to Curtin University by route 34. I can't see anything wrong with this proposal.

Edit: Now I do see a little change I would make. I would run route 188 via Bungaree Road instead of via Centenary Avenue, further improving services along that road and reducing the complexity of the network. The stops at Centenary/Leach and Centenary/Manning are served by the high frequency CircleRoute, and I doubt the detour would add very much journey time.
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Re: Vic Park new service ideas

Postby User 11872 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:39 pm

Thanks fellas. I thought about 188 via Bungaree 102. And TBH I think you're right. I was merely thinking of a direct link to Curtin for Shelley/Rossmoyne...but Bungaree is better than the current service (98-99 on Leach).
I'll amend and post.
Thanks too jonwil.
I have posted my proposals for the 72/75...they remain unchanged though are enhanced with new route 78.
Bungaree Rd is really quite a busy stretch of road so consider it done!
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Re: Vic Park new service ideas

Postby PoweredByCNG » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:07 pm

In my opinion:-

Route 170 should operate NR to Braibrise Rd & Leach Hwy, then Leach Hwy, Manning Rd, Albany Hwy and Cecil Av to Cannington Interchange.

Route 176 should have an increased frequency to compensate for removal of route 170 through Wilson and Bentley.

Route 177 as suggested, extending to Curtin University.
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Re: Vic Park new service ideas

Postby User 11872 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:51 pm

Updated as suggested.

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Last edited by User 11872 on Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vic Park new service ideas

Postby User 11872 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:57 pm

PoweredByCNG wrote:In my opinion:-

Route 170 should operate NR to Braibrise Rd & Leach Hwy, then Leach Hwy, Manning Rd, Albany Hwy and Cecil Av to Cannington Interchange.

Route 176 should have an increased frequency to compensate for removal of route 170 through Wilson and Bentley.

Route 177 as suggested, extending to Curtin University.



Don't agree with the 170. Perhaps an alternating service though? The 176 was increased though as you suggested (short working 176s maintain 15 min freq along with 177 on Berwick) - and remember...it's only a short distance (one stop) between Dumond and Chapman along Walpole Dave.
Thx for the comments though - I appreciate them even though you love gassies :D .
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Re: Vic Park new service ideas

Postby PoweredByCNG » Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:24 am

VL6MT wrote:Don't agree with the 170. Perhaps an alternating service though?


Could you please elaborate on why you wouldn't think it would be a good idea? The feeder routes 507-509 are great examples of why such a conversion of route 170 would work.

The 176 was increased though as you suggested (short working 176s maintain 15 min freq along with 177 on Berwick) - and remember...it's only a short distance (one stop) between Dumond and Chapman along Walpole Dave.


The reason why full 176 services should be increased with the re-routing of route 170 is to maintain a high frequency link to the city for Dumond St, so you'll have alternating 176/179 services as well as route 34 along there.
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Re: Vic Park new service ideas

Postby User 11872 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:34 am

Well, I did say an "alternating service" would be an option. consider: why do you think it acceptable for Shelley/Rossmoyne residents to not have direct access to the city yet insist on Dumond St having more than ample? (34-17x).
If you look closely you will see that the 176 has increased to maintain the headways - not during the peak to be fair (which can be adjusted) but during the day with short workings.

I'm not against your 170 to Cannington proposal - perhaps a 500 series could work with the 188? I actually like the idea.
And yes....508-09 are good examples. Elucidate your plans and I'll consider and modify
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Re: Vic Park new service ideas

Postby User 11872 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:21 am

I like your idea of the Cannington service. I originally was going to draw up the 170 (188) as a 30 minute service but deemed it overkill. On reflection of your input perhaps this service could alternate....say as a 200 series route - 200, 201, 204?
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Re: Vic Park new service ideas

Postby 900 series » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:10 pm

I wonder would the 509 still be needed with the "new 170" - it looks like it just saves 300 metres of walking for some of Wilson and Riverton and then only for the direct bus to Cannington i.e. no actual route sections deleted? Would also give the 200 more of a reason to exist (speaking of which maybe an upgraded all-day plus Saturday 200 could replace the 500 as well? And scrap the Rossmoyne detour except maybe a handful of journeys at current "frequency")
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Re: Vic Park new service ideas

Postby User 11872 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:41 pm

Cat wrote:I wonder would the 509 still be needed with the "new 170" - it looks like it just saves 300 metres of walking for some of Wilson and Riverton and then only for the direct bus to Cannington i.e. no actual route sections deleted? Would also give the 200 more of a reason to exist (speaking of which maybe an upgraded all-day plus Saturday 200 could replace the 500 as well? And scrap the Rossmoyne detour except maybe a handful of journeys at current "frequency")


Sounds reasonable Cat. Can you draw it up?
I think a Cannington connection via Shelley would be more justified than the current 509 (from what I've seen)..though others may know more about that.
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Re: Vic Park new service ideas

Postby 900 series » Tue May 06, 2014 2:57 pm

Some ideas:
170.gif

170 as per PoweredByCNG's description
200 exit Booragoon south on Riseley, L Karoonda L Canning R Bateman R Adamson L Moolyeen L Leach, into Bull Creek, continue on Leach R High, L Nicholson L Albany R Liege L Grose L Carousel R Cecil into Cannington. To Booragoon is exit Cannington, L Cecil, L Albany R Nicholson then the opposite of above. EDIT - still thinking about this - see a few posts down
500 & 509 withdrawn

(I should note here the timetables are back-of-envelope style with no consideration to rostering and so on)

Reasonings & Notes
*"New" 170 added to complement 188, coordinated as much as possible through Rossmoyne/Shelley. Frequency is 60 minutes Mon-Sat (30 minutes combined to Bull Creek), peak services every 20 minutes to Cannington (morning) and from Cannington (afternoon), also maintaining the current 15 minute peak service to Bull Creek from Corbel/Tudor extending every 30 to Cannington. I havent added Sunday services as 509 doesn't run on Sundays and 30 minutes seems overkill in relation to Sunday services elsewhere in Perth
*With new 170 offering a direct Cannington service for much of northern Riverton and the 508 covering the south as it currently does the usefullness of the 509 decreases, so would be withdrawn to avoid excess duplication. All route segments are covered by other services, such as 72/new-170, 75/189 and upgraded 200 (below)
* This would leave a gap on western High Road so 200 would be upgraded to similar frequencies to the current 509 and coordinated with 189. Lynwood Village could be removed to save route km - Im not sure how strong it is as a trip generator since 200 also serves Carousel, Riverton and Garden City. Frequency to Margaret Hubary House to stay the same, it looks like a purely welfare service anyway. Selected peak trips only run from Bull Creek to 506 terminus due to 507 and higher frequencies on the 206 running to Cannington
*In order to avoid duplicating the frequent 501 service the upgraded 200 would use the current 500 route Booragoon to Bull creek. during off-peak I've added a few minutes layover at Bull Creek to improve connections with trains. The Sunday 500 service is not replicated, it looks like a coverage route not aimed at choice passengers anyway and there are a number of services including the train itself not too far away, so Sunday trips seem out of place compared to similar or more substantial routes (340, 426, Ellenbrook feeders, 516 etc.) Kilometres better used elsewhere
*Not sure how to handle Castledare Retirement Villages which would lose a direct connection to Cannington - perhaps occasional deviation to new-170?
*Both new 170 and 200 have connections at Bull Creek, as Cannington has pretty much turn-up-and-go weekday services (every 7/8 minutes)

Regarding final route numbers perhaps something like:
*506 and 507 numbered in 900s (970 and 971 perhaps?) - should happen even in todays network imo
*508 to become either 506 or 507
*200 to become 508
*new 170 to be 509
*swap 188 and 189 to have 188/508 on High Road and 189/509 in Shelley
Last edited by 900 series on Thu May 08, 2014 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vic Park new service ideas

Postby 102 at 1625 » Tue May 06, 2014 7:48 pm

I like your ideas. I'm not sure you need to worry about Castledare Retirement Village, as it's already well served by buses to Stockland Riverton and Perth City Centre (admittedly, they would have to take a far longer journey), and are a short walk from route 72 to Cannington, which has similar operating hours. I wouldn't expect retirees go to Carousel for shopping (at department stores) that couldn't be done at Stockland Riverton that often. A deviation on the 170 would be a waste of journey time. Not everybody can get what they want: some people have to take pain for overall gain.
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Re: Vic Park new service ideas

Postby User 11872 » Wed May 07, 2014 12:33 am

Well thought out Cat.....I like it! Good to see it visually. I particularly like the joint nature of the 200 (50x). Also the 188 189 swap - really good refinements/ideas- the plot thickens!
Agree with 102 - Castledare isn't a concern.

When I get time I will draw the map up and see what the crew think.
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Re: Vic Park new service ideas

Postby User 11872 » Thu May 08, 2014 3:33 am

Is this roughly what you're suggesting Cat?

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If so I like it!
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Re: Vic Park new service ideas

Postby 900 series » Thu May 08, 2014 11:25 am

Pretty much.

I'm still considering alignments for the 200 through Lynwood/Ferndale, at the moment I'm thinking either shadowing 508 as above (reminds me of the older 877/878) or just stay on Metcalfe all the way between High Road and Nicholson for directness.

Actually thinking about it more I wonder if it would work every 30 minutes for a co-ordinated 15-minute service on 200 and 508....
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Re: Vic Park new service ideas

Postby PoweredByCNG » Thu May 08, 2014 11:53 am

Also, I'd operate the western section of Route 200 as:

From a stand at Booragoon Bus Station, L Marmion St, R Riseley St, L Karoonda Rd, L Canning Av, R Bateman Rd, R Cranford Av, L Moolyeen Rd, L Leach Hwy to resume the route as suggested above. I would do this because of VL6MT's observations of the current route 500 serving too many areas within walking/cycling distance from Bull Creek Station and also to increase the relevance of the route (i.e. to serve Brentwood Shops on the corner of Moolyeen Rd and Cranford Av).
Last edited by PoweredByCNG on Thu May 08, 2014 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vic Park new service ideas

Postby User 11872 » Thu May 08, 2014 2:56 pm

I agree with that..though it was Cat who observed the above PBCNG. I think the Metcalf alignment seems a possibility.
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Re: Vic Park new service ideas

Postby PoweredByCNG » Thu May 08, 2014 3:27 pm

The direct Metcalfe Road alignment of route 200 is ideal. 30min frequency through Ferndale is adequate for the area.
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Re: Vic Park new service ideas

Postby User 11872 » Fri May 09, 2014 12:46 am

I'm really happy with this. The 200 is refined nicely now. The 188/508 - 189/509 really grabs me. Shall we put our names to it and submit to the PTA lol? :D

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Re: Vic Park new service ideas

Postby shinjiman » Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:30 pm

Finally found back this discussion thread as Route 170/176 merged into 178. 177 was extended to Cannington for selected trips form 7 October 2018. :lol: :lol:
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