Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by busdriver12 »

TP1462 wrote:The 220 between Armadale & Cannington is also duplicated by the train it has very low weekend patronage the recent weekend withdrawal of the 249 reflects this and a lot of people either live within walking distance of the train station or have their own private vehicle and those travelling to the hospital usually get either an Uber a maxi taxi or relatives to do drop off or pick up due to limited parking and those living in Roleystone or the foot hills usually drive or get the 241
The main selling point for the 220/249 is access to Armadale Hospital. I think you'd have a hard time convincing someone using a zimmer frame they're better off walking from Sherwood station up the hill to the hospital.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by 1whoknows »

If I were in charge I would direct the production of an actual printed route map for the Perth system. This is the great missing element in how to get around as journey planners give no real concept of options, particularly for cross country journeys.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by Off The Rails »

The closest we have to that is the network maps, which are 10 maps showing every route service on that map. There isn't one which has every route on it, from memory.

https://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/Journe ... twork-Maps

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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by Leyland B21 »

busdriver12 wrote:
TP1462 wrote:The 220 between Armadale & Cannington is also duplicated by the train it has very low weekend patronage the recent weekend withdrawal of the 249 reflects this and a lot of people either live within walking distance of the train station or have their own private vehicle and those travelling to the hospital usually get either an Uber a maxi taxi or relatives to do drop off or pick up due to limited parking and those living in Roleystone or the foot hills usually drive or get the 241
The main selling point for the 220/249 is access to Armadale Hospital. I think you'd have a hard time convincing someone using a zimmer frame they're better off walking from Sherwood station up the hill to the hospital.
Having lived on Albany Hwy a couple of houses down from Galliers Ave for the first 20yrs of my life, agreed the hill is a bit of a climb. I lived opposite Carawatha Avenue so if you lived on that stretch of road, walking from Sherwood Station was a task. I'm curious though. Former route 219 had great loadings between Armadale and Kelmscott let alone the bulk of the route and more frequent services. Last bus would leave Perth at 11.30pm. Sad to hear that it's not performing now as route 220 but my ideology is if you provide services, ppl use them. Take away services ppl will use the car.

Also take into account the loadings were good without the hospital back then as the hospital was nothing more than an emergency ward and a clinic whilst I lived there

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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by Merc1107 »

Leyland B21 wrote:I'm curious though. Former route 219 had great loadings between Armadale and Kelmscott let alone the bulk of the route and more frequent services. Last bus would leave Perth at 11.30pm. Sad to hear that it's not performing now as route 220 but my ideology is if you provide services, ppl use them. Take away services ppl will use the car.
At the risk of sending the thread off-topic, if patronage is falling, I have to wonder if it is due to changing demographics and transport options in the area? Perhaps more people in the area can now afford to run a car (as the outer suburbs are rapidly becoming what is most affordable for middle-income earners), or have better access to transport in some other way.
I'm not sure how the frequency of the Armadale line has evolved over time, but that might play a part in the bus slowly loosing favour.
Leyland B21 wrote:my ideology is if you provide services, ppl use them. Take away services ppl will use the car.
Agreed. Moving back towards the topic, in relation to bus routes, if I were in charge, I'd engage in a massive advertisement campaign to highlight to specific suburbs the travel options available to them, particularly feeders or mainline routes and the various connectivity options they provide. The average Perthite who chooses to use their car and not the bus probably hasn't the slightest clue about service in their area, and would likely make use of public transport with some gentle persuasion... Many suburbs (particularly around Bull Creek, Murdoch & Cockburn) have between 2-5 services with peak frequencies of at least 15mins.

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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by Squiddy »

Completely agree. I think this is more important now than ever, with the high-frequency services like 950, 960 and 970 offering fairly competitive travel times compared to driving and offering a route and frequency more like a train service than a bus. But I'd wager the average person who drives everywhere wouldn't have a clue that these services exist and would likely still assume buses took long winding routes around the suburbs, taking 30min to cover what a car can do in 10. I'd also like to see them bring back the 'high frequency' livery that adorned some of the earlier Merc O405NHs, I reckon decorating a few buses like that (especially the six new artics 3096-99, 3100-02, which were primarily delivered to run 950s) could work wonders.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by pasha241 »

TP1462 wrote:The 220 between Armadale & Cannington is also duplicated by the train it has very low weekend patronage the recent weekend withdrawal of the 249 reflects this and a lot of people either live within walking distance of the train station or have their own private vehicle and those travelling to the hospital usually get either an Uber a maxi taxi or relatives to do drop off or pick up due to limited parking and those living in Roleystone or the foot hills usually drive or get the 241


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For me. i think the way that 220 could have more benefit is to make it Limited Stops. It can have limited stops lets say from After Albany hwy / shepperton rd interection to kelmscott. Maybe it will make people want to travel 220 from area around Albany Hwy (Cannington to bentley) to city rather than use 930 because it is all stops.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by Bus Suggestions »

Two new ideas which I just want to gather opinion on....

NEW Route 452: Kingsway - Hillarys via Greenwood Stn
I know that two individual services have been trialed from Greenwood Station in the past, the 451 to Kingsway in 2012/13 and the 456 to Hillarys in 2013/14. Both, as can be seen today, have been unsuccessful in gathering the required patronage to sustain either service. Part of their failure can be linked to the fairly direct route they both took (451 pretty much ran straight along Hepburn Ave and same for 456 until Marmion Ave) resulting in evidenced slowness compared to cars and limitations in catchment area and that the two services never did co-exist for some period of time, resulting in a loss of potential for a comparatively direct Kingsway - Hillarys link. The new 452 would partially resolve both of these problems, providing a one-route, no interchange link between Kingsway and Hillarys as well as a route which is quick, yet not so direct that the catchment area is lost.
The 452 would replace the current school special 755 from Kingsway to Greenwood College in the AM and vice-versa in the PM with deviations and short trips to Greenwood College. As well as providing deviated access to and from Greenwood College, the route would directly serve Duncraig Senior High and also come within walking distance of Sacred Heart College.
ROUTE:
Image
FREQUENCY:
Weekday peak - 15-20 mins.
Weekday opposing peak - 30-45 mins.
Weekday off-peak - 45-60 mins.
Weekends - 30-60 mins.
DETAILED TIMETABLES:
Route 452 timetable towards Hillarys Boat Harbour.
Route 452 timetable towards Hillarys Boat Harbour.
Route 452 timetable towards Kingsway City.
Route 452 timetable towards Kingsway City.
EXTENSION Route 66: Morley - Glendalough via Perth Busport & Subiaco Stn
The route 66 in its current state is currently near-redundant, being what is essentially a limited-stops peak hour parallel to the ever more frequent route 950. So why don't we make it less redundant? Less redundant in that it would now run a slightly different route and be extended to provide a new connection? This route would extend to Glendalough Station, via Subiaco Station, providing a new connection from the Joondalup Line to the Fremantle Line and forming part of an 'Inner CircleRoute,' which has been mentioned in previous pages. The route would also be re-routed in Northbridge via Aberdeen St and William St, and once two-way conversion is completed, eventually down Brisbane St and William St to better serve the western Northbridge area and would also be re-routed to instead serve Perth Busport.
The extended 66 would now be limited-stops from Morley to Vincent St, and all-stops from there onwards to Glendalough. It would directly serve Bold Park Community (Primary) School and the soon-to-be-completed Bob Hawke College.
ROUTE:
Image
FREQUENCY:
Weekday peak - 10-20 mins
Weekday off-peak - 30-45 mins
Weekends - 30-60 mins
Exact frequencies will be determined at a later date, as I have not yet completed a TT for the extension.

So, what does everyone think?
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by Merc1107 »

Personally, I think odd frequencies like 45mins are a huge nuisance. Passengers can't easily remember when the bus will turn up like they could with services every 60, 30, 20, 15 (etc) minutes.
Darwin has a HUGE problem with it's services never having a consistent frequency. See attached image - on what is probably their busiest service the only consistency is that there no consistency, although it is somewhat evident they're trying for a service "approximately every 20 minutes." For most people, I imagine it would be a significant put-off.
Darwin Route 10 Casuarina to Darwin, weekdays AM timetable
Darwin Route 10 Casuarina to Darwin, weekdays AM timetable
Screen shot 2019-11-09 at 12.26.44 PM.png (28.64 KiB) Viewed 6440 times
Regarding your 66 proposal, I'm not sure how useful that would be. The 66 in its current form actually carries the most passengers per kilometre of any route on the network.
The recent service additions to the 66 suggest it is still useful enough to be kept around, much like the 370 which runs in peak-direction only to supplement the 970. My suggestion instead would be to remove additional stops to make the 66 Express again; given the 950 is already very frequent and only passengers travelling as far as Morley benefit from the current arrangements anyway. I would also do away with the timing point given the 66 wouldn't be stopping on Beaufort St. This would hopefully speed up the 66s enough to properly differentiate them from the 950 and make them a useful alternative for passengers who just want to get to or from the city during the peak.

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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by FLOREAT 90 »

EXTENSION Route 66: Morley - Glendalough via Perth Busport & Subiaco Stn
Regarding this proposal I do think that there is some merit. Having worked in the Hay Street / Roberts Road precinct before, the only transport option for access to/from the city is Route 28 which has an off-peak frequency of 60 minutes. Also because it is funded by City of Perth, the CAT bus does not enter west of Thomas Street as it becomes City of Subiaco. (I still remember the very frequent service of Routes 3,4 & 6 along Hay Street). So maybe your service idea is good but not as a ROUTE 66 extension but more as a ROUTE 29 Perth Busport to Glendalough Station via Subiaco Station and Harbourne Street. The service could also be numbered a ROUTE 86 to keep in sync with ROUTE 85.

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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by pasha241 »

FLOREAT 90 wrote:EXTENSION Route 66: Morley - Glendalough via Perth Busport & Subiaco Stn
Regarding this proposal I do think that there is some merit. Having worked in the Hay Street / Roberts Road precinct before, the only transport option for access to/from the city is Route 28 which has an off-peak frequency of 60 minutes. Also because it is funded by City of Perth, the CAT bus does not enter west of Thomas Street as it becomes City of Subiaco. (I still remember the very frequent service of Routes 3,4 & 6 along Hay Street). So maybe your service idea is good but not as a ROUTE 66 extension but more as a ROUTE 29 Perth Busport to Glendalough Station via Subiaco Station and Harbourne Street. The service could also be numbered a ROUTE 86 to keep in sync with ROUTE 85.
for me the Subiaco glendalough Idea is for good 97 Extension.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by Bus Suggestions »

The 97 was once trialled to extend to Leederville, but supposedly low patronage and low Town of Cambridge funding resulted in withdrawal of the extension. Doubt they would extend the 97 to Glendalough.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by Bus-1809 »

pasha241 wrote:
TP1462 wrote:The 220 between Armadale & Cannington is also duplicated by the train it has very low weekend patronage the recent weekend withdrawal of the 249 reflects this and a lot of people either live within walking distance of the train station or have their own private vehicle and those travelling to the hospital usually get either an Uber a maxi taxi or relatives to do drop off or pick up due to limited parking and those living in Roleystone or the foot hills usually drive or get the 241


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For me. i think the way that 220 could have more benefit is to make it Limited Stops. It can have limited stops lets say from After Albany hwy / shepperton rd interection to kelmscott. Maybe it will make people want to travel 220 from area around Albany Hwy (Cannington to bentley) to city rather than use 930 because it is all stops.
The issue with the 220 is it covers a lot of stops in between where the train doesn't stop. A good suggestion is to remove the 220 off Albany Hey and run it via Shepperton Road, as per the 219, then make the 930 Limited Stops from VPTS to Thornlie. The short working 220's would pick up the slack on Shepperton Road
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by ozi_mister_d »

remove the 220 off Albany Hey and run it via Shepperton Road, as per the 219, then make the 930 Limited Stops from VPTS to Thornlie. The short working 220's would pick up the slack on Shepperton
if the 220 was removed from Albany Hwy, there would be no service from Albany Hwy / Shepperton Rd / Welshpool Rd intersection to Bassinghall St, where the 178,179 enter Albany Hwy.
That's a fair chunk of East Vic Park with no service along the main shopping strip.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by Off The Rails »

You could counteract that by sending the 178 down Albany Hwy to Walpole St, and have more short 177's to cover the Berwick St drop in service.

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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by Leyland B21 »

Off The Rails wrote:You could counteract that by sending the 178 down Albany Hwy to Walpole St, and have more short 177's to cover the Berwick St drop in service.

Cheers! :wink:
You could also run 178 along Albany Hwy to Boundary Rd and giving that a service again since deletion of routes 10, 12, 13, 3, 4 ,6

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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by Enviro 500 »

501 and 507 merger also considered by me.

http://www.routes.one/idea/711

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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by Squiddy »

Was down in Lakelands today and started thinking how routes in the area would change when/if Lakelands Station opens in a couple of years. I'm not sure what kind of residential development will happen in the area during this time, but I don't think there'll be enough to warrant any significant changes to the existing network based on what I have seen in recent years. Lakelands Station location based on location provided on fact sheet.

My thoughts:

Route 558: Not much change here, except a straight deviation down Lake Valley Dr to Lakelands Station, returning back the same way, similar to the existing deviation to/from Warnbro Station. This will also provide an alternative route towards the train to those living in Secret Harbour or Golden Bay, and at a glance would seem to offer comparable travel times to Perth compared to catching the 558/561 from these suburbs to Warnbro Station.

Route 584: A minor route change on the Madora Bay foreshore sees the existing terminus removed, and route 584 extending past Lakelands Shopping Centre to Lakelands Station via Bedgerup Ave and Lake Valley Dr, providing access to Lakelands Station for those in Madora Bay.

Route 587: Had a bit of trouble with this one, but opted for a moderate route change in Lakelands, deviating off Yindana Blvd down Badgerup Ave to the existing 587 terminus at Lakelands Shops, then returning back via the existing 587 route, turning down Lake Valley Dr to terminate at Lakelands Station. While this change does mean the Southern part of Yindana Blvd is no longer serviced, I feel it's worth noting that a lot of these households will be within walking distance of Lakelands Station which offsets this somewhat, and it avoids a lot of doubling back if the 587 is to service Lakelands Shops as well as Lakelands Station. There's also the possibility of leaving the route mostly unchanged, simply deviating the 587 to/from Lakelands Station and continuing to the existing Lakelands Shops terminus, but I much prefer having services terminate at stations when given the chance, especially when the 'extension' to the shops is less than a kilometre.

Of course, this all depends on what further development happens in this area between now and when Lakelands Station opens, but what do you think?


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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by TP1462 »

Enviro 500 wrote:501 and 507 merger also considered by me.

http://www.routes.one/idea/711
Combining the 501 & 507 would make sense


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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by Squiddy »

TP1462 wrote:
Enviro 500 wrote:501 and 507 merger also considered by me.

http://www.routes.one/idea/711
Combining the 501 & 507 would make sense


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What am I missing? A 501/507 merger doesn't make much sense to me, those routes work just fine as they are. Extending the route twice as far and across two separate contract areas for what benefit exactly? Not criticising, I'm just curious why you both like this idea
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by Merc1107 »

Squiddy wrote:
Enviro 500 wrote:501 and 507 merger also considered by me.

http://www.routes.one/idea/711
What am I missing? A 501/507 merger doesn't make much sense to me, those routes work just fine as they are. Extending the route twice as far and across two separate contract areas for what benefit exactly? Not criticising, I'm just curious why you both like this idea
In the past, other posters have mentioned through-routing existed as a means of saving peak buses and layover space (the latter was probably more important in Perth City before what is now Elizabeth Bus Bus Stn came into being). Given Bull Creek can be a bit short on parking space as it is, perhaps we might see some sort of through-routed service in the future. That said, I'm not sure Cannington's parking situation is any better...
Would this future route be the 501 and 507? That I'm not so sure about. I don't have numbers on who transfers to what buses at Bull Creek; as standalone services but I can say the 501 and 507 are both quite popular, but differ considerably in frequency and span depending on day of the week and time of day.

The 998/999, 950 and 960 are three examples where through-routing has worked exceptionally well. In each case, it is quite easy to see why, there are universities, hospital(s), large high-schools, shopping centres, train stations and workplaces, among other things, all connected together on a direct route with a high frequency. Compare this to combining the 501 and 507, and I'm not so sure it would work that well. Really, my question is, what is there along the 507 that people using the 501 might want to access more easily?
As it is, connections between the 501 and 507 services at Bull Creek aren't too difficult, given inbound and outbound trains arrive almost concurrently, so in many instances the waiting time wouldn't exceed 10 minutes. Also consider that a combined service through Bull Creek would probably need a lot of padding in the timetable to facilitate the connection both to and from Perth (much like the 558s and other services travelling via Warnbro to Rockingham) and to account for the delays one could encounter on such a long route. With all that in mind, I think the status-quo is fine for the time being.

Just to wrap up, a bit of a history lesson:
Prior to the opening of the Mandurah Line, Route 155 ran between Fremantle and Cannington (see map below) Mon-Sat and was coordinated against the 154 (see snippet from timetable). Now, I am of the opinion that had this route (or its brief successor the 205) been well used, they would have been retained.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by Bus Suggestions »

The 154 & 155 were on the Western 40 timetable. The PDF is accessible on the Wayback Machine.

I don't have much experience with Lakelands, but here are my opinions of Squiddy's Lakelands plan.
Squiddy wrote:Route 558: Not much change here, except a straight deviation down Lake Valley Dr to Lakelands Station, returning back the same way, similar to the existing deviation to/from Warnbro Station. This will also provide an alternative route towards the train to those living in Secret Harbour or Golden Bay, and at a glance would seem to offer comparable travel times to Perth compared to catching the 558/561 from these suburbs to Warnbro Station.
The only issue I see here is that the 558 shares the same road both entering and exiting Lakelands to and from Mandurah/Warnbro. This could result in some confusion/frustration for people who can't be bothered reading destos who might want to catch the 558 to Secret Harbour but get on the bus to Mandurah instead, if there are stops along Lake Valley Dr.
Squiddy wrote:Route 584: A minor route change on the Madora Bay foreshore sees the existing terminus removed, and route 584 extending past Lakelands Shopping Centre to Lakelands Station via Bedgerup Ave and Lake Valley Dr, providing access to Lakelands Station for those in Madora Bay.
No problems with this one, this seems a sensible idea.
Squiddy wrote:Route 587: Had a bit of trouble with this one, but opted for a moderate route change in Lakelands, deviating off Yindana Blvd down Badgerup Ave to the existing 587 terminus at Lakelands Shops, then returning back via the existing 587 route, turning down Lake Valley Dr to terminate at Lakelands Station. While this change does mean the Southern part of Yindana Blvd is no longer serviced, I feel it's worth noting that a lot of these households will be within walking distance of Lakelands Station which offsets this somewhat, and it avoids a lot of doubling back if the 587 is to service Lakelands Shops as well as Lakelands Station. There's also the possibility of leaving the route mostly unchanged, simply deviating the 587 to/from Lakelands Station and continuing to the existing Lakelands Shops terminus, but I much prefer having services terminate at stations when given the chance, especially when the 'extension' to the shops is less than a kilometre.
Again, your route does a double-back for a bit. The extension to the shops doesn't seem needed; it would be covered by your 584.

Network map 9 is actually slightly outdated; the dashed out subdivision to the east of the railway has already been built. After scaling Google Maps and redrawing the subdivision, my plan would be:

CURTAILED Route 558: Rockingham - Lakelands via Warnbro Stn & Secret Harbour
Route 558 would operate via its current route to north of Lakelands SC, then turn left onto Banksiadale Gate, right onto Yindana Blvd and left onto Lake Valley Dr to Lakelands Station, and travelling vice-versa to Rockingham. The 558 would service the current Lakelands SC terminus of the 587, allowing the 587 to turn into Lakelands Station instead.

EXTENSION Route 584: Mandurah - Lakelands via Madora Bay
Route 584 would follow the current route to Challenger Rd, then left onto Albion Rd, right Bengal St right Cornwallis Rd, left Assam St, right Caspar Rd and left Madora Beach Rd to follow Squiddy's extension to Lakelands. This would bring a bit more of northern Madora Bay into the catchment of route 584.

NEW Route 585: Mandurah - Lakelands via Mandurah Rd
Route 585 (an anagram of 558) would service the portion of route 558 from Lakelands to Mandurah, exiting Lakelands Station via Lake Valley Dr and turning left onto Mandurah Rd to follow the current route 558 to Mandurah. My original plans had the 559 taking over the 558 route from Rockingham to Lakelands and the 558 be curtailed from Mandurah to Lakelands. However, a quick search revealed a gap in the 58x route numbering, allowing the retention of the 559, curtailing of the 558 and the new route 585, which fits nicely in the route numbering system, with 584 being coastal and 587 most inland. Deviations would run to/from Mandurah Baptist College before/after school.

MODIFIED Route 587: Mandurah - Lakelands East via Lakelands Stn
Route 587 would follow the current route from Mandurah to Yindana Blvd before turning right into Lakelands Station, and then exiting the station via Lake Valley Dr, turning right to follow Lake Valley Dr to the Moonee St roundabout, where it would terminate. The extension brings the eastern Lakelands area into catchment of the bus service, and allows easy extension when further subdivisions are built to the east. The current route and Lakelands SC terminus would be serviced by the curtailed route 585 and extended route 584. This extension is exactly one kilometre in length. If a connection of Gordon Rd/Meadow Springs Dr to Mandjoogoordap Dr is built, the 587 would probably be curtailed to Lakelands Station with another route (possibly 587, with the current route renumbered to 586) running via Oakmont Ave, Mandjoogoordap Dr and Lilydale Dr servicing the Lakelands East portion.

MAP:
PERTHMET Lakelands Bus Network.jpg
PERTHMET Lakelands Bus Network.jpg (272.61 KiB) Viewed 3058 times
The 501/507 merger sort-of makes sense, but would probably only be considered if both Fremantle and Canning contracts become held by one operator. As Merc1107 says, Cannington's layover situation isn't any better than Bull Creek's. While Bull Creek has (judging by Google Maps) 8 layover bays, Cannington only has 4 (three if an artic is thrown in) bays, located off-site along Cecil Ave.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by Squiddy »

Some good feedback, cheers! I am well aware that there is existing development to the East and North, but in my opinion there isn't enough of it to warrant it's own bus service... yet :wink: I just used Map 9 as it had the existing routes for ease of reference
Bus Suggestions wrote:[558]The only issue I see here is that the 558 shares the same road both entering and exiting Lakelands to and from Mandurah/Warnbro. This could result in some confusion/frustration for people who can't be bothered reading destos who might want to catch the 558 to Secret Harbour but get on the bus to Mandurah instead, if there are stops along Lake Valley Dr.
Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but I like having the 558 run all the way from Mandurah to Rockingham, it keeps things simple. Not to mention this exact thing already exists with Warnbro Station and routes 558 and 561 along Safety Bay Rd, routes in both directions travel along the same sections of road (and doesn't cause any issues that I know of). Running the 558 straight up and back down the same way is the fastest option for those looking to travel past Lakelands (such as the significant number of schoolkids who travel between Mandurah/Meadow Springs/Lakelands towards Comet Bay College every day). Of course, there's always the option of having dedicated school services or timing 558/585s to connect with each other but in this case I think simpler is better.
Bus Suggestions wrote:[587]Again, your route does a double-back for a bit. The extension to the shops doesn't seem needed; it would be covered by your 584.
Doubling back isn't necessarily a bad thing if it means people don't have to change between services. Especially for older folk, I imagine it'd be annoying having to transfer buses at the station (even more so given how close they are, the shops are only a couple stops away). I think I agree with keeping the route running down Yindana Blvd as it currently does towards the station, but I think extending to the shops (and Coastal Lakes College which is across the road) would be more useful than running to small development to the East.

And again, no issues with the 584. I'm a little surprised they haven't extended it to the shops (existing 587 terminus) already to be honest. Seems like a fairly minor change that could be pretty useful.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by Merc1107 »

Squiddy wrote:Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but I like having the 558 run all the way from Mandurah to Rockingham, it keeps things simple.

... Doubling back isn't necessarily a bad thing if it means people don't have to change between services. Especially for older folk, I imagine it'd be annoying having to transfer buses at the station (even more so given how close they are, the shops are only a couple stops away).
I agree with this point of view. It's a lot like the situation Aubin Grove caused with the 525-527 services, as a result of the routes being split at the station, passengers in Wandi and Hammond Park now have the irritation of a 10-15min wait for the next bus if they wish to go to Cockburn Gateway Shopping Centre (which, given the size of the complex, isn't an unlikely journey...).

Much like the freeway bus services, sometimes you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette; convenience sometimes has to reign over efficiency. If such services can be convenient to win over a car user some of the time, there's a hope you might win that person over for other journeys, too.

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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Post by Bus Suggestions »

I personally believe that doubling back is undesirable, however if there is no alternative other than route splitting (e.g. current situation with Safety Bay Dr/Warnbro), then it should be done. For mapping purposes, I'll keep the 585 in there. Otherwise, based on the feedback received through consultation:

CURTAILED Route 558: Rockingham - Lakelands via Warnbro Stn & Secret Harbour
The route would remain as originally envisioned, however (as 587 will continue to service Lakelands SC) will instead run via Lake Valley Dr through Lakelands rather than Banksiadale Gate.

EXTENSION Route 584: Mandurah - Lakelands East via Madora Bay & Lakelands Stn
The route would remain as originally envisioned, however some trips will extend from Lakelands to Lakelands East via Lake Valley Dr, replacing the proposed route 587 through Lakelands East. This will operate at a lower frequency than the envisioned 587 extension, as the majority of the catchment is within a 500 metre (6 minute) walking radius.

NEW Route 585: Mandurah - Lakelands via Mandurah Rd
As originally envisioned, however it would service Catalina Dr, Yindana Blvd and enter Lakelands Station via Argyle Fairway instead of Lake Valley Dr. This means that the proposed deviations to/from Mandurah Baptist College would instead run as short trips to/from Mandurah. Subject to eventual community feedback, the 585 could instead run as the 558.

MODIFIED Route 587: Mandurah - Lakelands SC via Pebble Beach Blvd & Lakelands Stn
Route 587 will remain as current while deviating to Lakelands Stn. The Lakelands East section of the proposed route will be covered by a lower frequency extension of route 584.

POST-CONSULT MAP:
PERTHMET Lakelands Bus Network Post-Consult.jpg
PERTHMET Lakelands Bus Network Post-Consult.jpg (294.8 KiB) Viewed 2969 times
The two dotted lines represent potential long-term routes for the Lakelands East area - when the subdivision reaches a reasonable size, these routes could be put into place. The light purple route would run from the map to an eventual connection with Meadow Springs Dr, and then via Oakmont Ave, Gordon Rd and Mandurah Rd to Mandurah Station. This would replace the 584 extensions. Meanwhile, the dark purple would run as route 586 from Yindana Blvd and via the western portion of Pebble Beach Blvd and Oakmont Ave to Mandurah Station. 586 would then take the current 587 route to Lakelands SC. The dark purple line north-east of Yindana Blvd represent a long-term reroute of the 587 to service Lakelands East, terminating at Lakelands Stn with some trips extending via the current route to Lakelands SC.

Again, is there any more feedback anyone wishes to discuss?
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