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PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Perth / Western Australia Transport Discussion

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PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby Mr OC Benz » Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:29 pm

Happy New Year!

Thread rules:

  • Please ensure the observations you are posting are of your own sightings.
  • Refrain from speculating, posting rumours or making uneducated assumptions. If any posts contain assumptions or opinions which cannot be 100% confirmed as fact, please clearly state this in your post.
  • A number of people are using http://www.perthbus.info as your "observation" source. Information from there is publicly accessible. It is not necessary to repost any information from there in this thread, unless of course it is something you wish to challenge for discussion on here (e.g. confirm accuracy, provide an update etc).
  • Please limit photos posted in this thread to one good photo that supports your observation. Any additional photos should be posted in the photo section of the forum.
  • PTA / Transperth related observations should relate to sightings of unusual, unrecorded and interesting occurrences, such as buses out of their normal operating area or on routes that are unusual to be seen on.
  • Observations related to the actual bus such as fleet presentation (destination displays, advertising, bus defects/damage etc.) should not be posted in this thread, but be directed to the appropriate organisation if the issue is of concern.
  • Private observations may encompass any new or interesting bus sightings within the private bus scene in WA.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby sylar » Sun Jan 01, 2017 5:29 pm

2424 seen running a 403T about 10mins ago on Hutton St in Osborne Park.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby TP1462 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:43 pm

A series EMU set #35 ran a high speed trial run this morning with ADP 103 on the Armadale line


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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby TP1173 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:56 pm

1602 and 1603 have been refurbished. This brings the 1600s list of refurbs to 1600, 1601, 1602 & 1603.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby the c man » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:15 pm

Bsets operating midland/fremantle lines
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby TP1462 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:18 am

A sets captive for the next 2 weeks are
06/08
09/44
39/45


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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby TRS-80 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:00 pm

It was dark, but I'm pretty sure I saw at least 10 cars stowed at Thornlie station last night.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby the c man » Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:57 pm

TRS-80 wrote:It was dark, but I'm pretty sure I saw at least 10 cars stowed at Thornlie station last night.

That would be 06/08, 45/39 &09/44 as TP1462 mentioned
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby TRS-80 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:39 am

Why are they at Thornlie though?
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby Merc & Renault Bus_1 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:06 am

TRS-80 wrote:Why are they at Thornlie though?


No power at Claisebrook, that's also why the B-sets are running on the Fremantle and Midland lines
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PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby TP1462 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:06 am

Thornlie station has been turned into a make shift overnight storage facility, their were plans to keep a spare set at Cannington but never eventuated Thornlie turned out to be the most secure place for overnight stowage it was going to be Armadale and it's also because Armadale has been isolated from the rest of the network this is the only way they can keep trains running during the closure, the A sets that aren't running are taking a well deserved rest, Claisebrook depot will most likely run a limited service during peak and off peak, Nowergup will most likely take over the Freo & Midland lines at night after peak during weekdays and on the weekends when they have to isolate the power


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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby Merc & Renault Bus_1 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:31 am

Set 070 has been upgraded, it now leaves set 71, 72 and 74 to 79 yet to be upgraded.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby the c man » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:49 pm

Merc & Renault Bus_1 wrote:Set 070 has been upgraded, it now leaves set 71, 72 and 74 to 79 yet to be upgraded.
and 75?
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby TP1462 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:52 pm

the c man wrote:
Merc & Renault Bus_1 wrote:Set 070 has been upgraded, it now leaves set 71, 72 and 74 to 79 yet to be upgraded.
and 75?


Just to clarify I think he means sets 71, 72 & 74 up to and including set 79


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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby TP1462 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:06 pm

3007 out and about in service, just left Armadale station on a 245, had a shift change also


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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby TP1106 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:21 pm

3032: Malaga to Kalamunda.
There are no more B12's left at Malaga.
Cheers!
0405's are awesome!!
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby TP1462 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:02 pm

B sets doing Freo/Midland again 7PM service to Midland is a 3car set


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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby tonyp » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:56 am

A couple of initial observations from an east coast visitor riding your excellent bus system in the last couple of days:

I note that almost every passenger is using Smartrider cards with very few passengers doing transactions with the driver. It seems logical to open up the centre door(s) for boarding as well, to speed things up. Roving RPOs would be sufficient for revenue protection, there doesn't seem to be a need to pass the driver.

I rode the 910 from Victoria Park to Fremantle and people were getting on and off at almost every stop along the way! However, many of the stop spacings seem incredibly close (like seemingly down to 200 metres or less) which made for a very slow journey. Is any thought ever given to stop consolidation in Perth? Where I was living in Europe a few years back, typical stop spacings were about 500 metres which didn't seem to be any problem at all.

Glad to see you're using Volgren Optimus which are much better than the Bustechs we're getting in NSW. They ride much better too. We have the Volgrens in Wollongong.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby Mr OC Benz » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:17 pm

At the moment, PTA avoid having to pay for RPOs by only enabling front door loading. With the lowest fare evasion rate in the country, the PTA would need a very good reason to open up to all door boarding. For now, probably the only real candidate is Route 950 which is Perth's busiest route and experiences high loadings throughout its entire hours of operation. I think they'd need to toughen their stance on wheelchair ramp deployment (they are automated in Perth) too, as it regularly holds up services (even CATs) when it is constantly deployed for prams, buggies etc.

Stop consolidation is actually happening as we speak and has recently occurred in some locations along the 910 as stops are upgraded to comply with DDA standard. The route in previous incarnations has existed for a very long time. I'd expect to see more consolidation along there (and other routes) in the near future. You'll also find in newer outer suburban areas and areas of recent service changes, that typical stop spacing is around the 400-600m mark.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby tonyp » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:11 pm

Funnily enough I was offered the ramp for our big suitcase-on-wheels but I lifted it! The drivers are nice in Perth. you'd only get such friendliness from private drivers in NSW.

The low floor doors of the Volgrens are appreciated. Basically I wouldn't have been able to use the centre door in a Bustech, I would have been pushing the bag through passengers boarding via the front door. Such a stupid design, fortunately precluded from purchase in WA thanks to PTA's higher specification standards.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby busdriver12 » Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:34 pm

Mr OC Benz wrote:I think they'd need to toughen their stance on wheelchair ramp deployment (they are automated in Perth) too, as it regularly holds up services (even CATs) when it is constantly deployed for prams, buggies etc.


I'll have to disagree with you here.

It seems pointless to have an accessible bus, by limiting access (no pun) to that bus using one of it's devices that makes it accessible (say that lot 3 times quickly!), defeats the purpose of having the bus in the first place. Can you imagine the hold ups if we went back to pram hooks? With the Scania DAB's we used to have on the CATs, the ramp was of the Armstrong variety i.e. the driver had to get out of the seat and deploy it manually.

Accessible buses are not just for wheelchairs - they are there for anyone who has an access/mobility issue.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby tonyp » Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:56 pm

I find it strange to be saying this, having been an accessibility advocate for decades (and having worked long ago in the disability sector), but its usually no problem with a pram or stroller bridging the vertical gap between a 150 mm high kerb and a 300 mm (or 250 mm if kneeled) bus door threshold. It's not necessary to deploy the ramp unless the parent is really struggling. As many of you would know, it's just a matter of propping the front wheels on the next surface and go from there.

I think it's very kind of Perth drivers to be so considerate but I agree with Mr OCB that you start to have scheduling issues if you do it too much.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby Mr OC Benz » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:19 pm

busdriver12 wrote:
Mr OC Benz wrote:I think they'd need to toughen their stance on wheelchair ramp deployment (they are automated in Perth) too, as it regularly holds up services (even CATs) when it is constantly deployed for prams, buggies etc.


I'll have to disagree with you here.

It seems pointless to have an accessible bus, by limiting access (no pun) to that bus using one of it's devices that makes it accessible (say that lot 3 times quickly!), defeats the purpose of having the bus in the first place. Can you imagine the hold ups if we went back to pram hooks? With the Scania DAB's we used to have on the CATs, the ramp was of the Armstrong variety i.e. the driver had to get out of the seat and deploy it manually.

Accessible buses are not just for wheelchairs - they are there for anyone who has an access/mobility issue.

I don't see it as pointless and I'm solely referring to the use of the wheelchair ramp, not the overall added functions of an accessible bus. Accessible buses have a kneeling function too, which is equally important and useful, but with less time consumed with no ramp being deployed. For the most part, almost anyone who isn't in a wheelchair, should be capable of getting onto the bus with the kneeling function alone (as practiced everywhere else in the world that low entry/floor buses exist). I highly doubt that there are more less-abled people per capita in Perth than anywhere else to warrant such excessive use of the wheelchair ramp.

Fair enough for those who need extra assistance, but for those who adopt the lazy approach, It's incredibly inconvenient and inconsiderate to the rest of the passengers on board when a bus needs to run to a schedule and connections to be made. This in turn has now led to a culture of drivers just deploying the ramp regardless of whether an intending passenger needs it or not.

It's a bad practice to get into, and when timetable efficiency becomes a more critical issue in the future, particularly on busy routes, it's going to be extremely hard for passengers to back away from the culture (or lazy attitude) that has developed from the use of the wheelchair ramp. I can pretty much guarantee that none of this would've ever occurred had the buses been fitted with manual ramps. You'd certainly not see drivers getting out of their seat to put the ramp out every time someone with a pram wants to get on! Or better still, if the ramps were fitted to the centre door, it would've been better for everyone, especially people in wheelchairs, rather than the current situation of having to make several turns and battle between the wheel-arches in order to be safely secured.

In any other city (even in Australia), most passengers with prams would generally not be considered to have an access/mobility issue and thus lowering the bus would be sufficient without the need for the wheelchair ramp to be deployed. And in some cities, the buses are configured to automatically lower at bus stops, reducing stop dwell time.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby Merc1107 » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:47 pm

Mr OC Benz wrote:Stop consolidation is actually happening as we speak and has recently occurred in some locations along the 910 as stops are upgraded to comply with DDA standard. The route in previous incarnations has existed for a very long time.
That would probably explain why there are bus-bays along Canning Highway (i.e. after Canning Bridge where routes like the 111, 114, 115 etc run) that appear to have been disused during the last 12 month. Its obvious the bus bays will not see use again, at least given the construction of new stops en-route.
Mr OC Benz wrote:Fair enough for those who need extra assistance, but for those who adopt the lazy approach, It's incredibly inconvenient and inconsiderate to the rest of the passengers on board when a bus needs to run to a schedule and connections to be made.
Absolutely agree with the above. There is no reason someone with a pram cannot simply reverse out of the vehicle so as the pram doesn't tip over. This is related to the "age of entitlement," I feel. I'm all for assisting the elderly, but young, able types with prams are not disabled or slow moving.

It reminds me of a scene at Morley some time ago. The driver pulled right up to the curb (i.e. wheels scrubbing) and kneeled the bus. Some passengers come rushing out with a pram, not paying much attention and *somehow* manage to "loose control" to the point of the front wheel wedging between the bus and curb. Baby comes tumbling out and lands on its head, and the passengers verbally abuse the driver briefly before clearing off.

Should the driver have deployed the ramp? Maybe. But it would hold up other passengers disembarking, and having to make connections. Its quite annoying the rear doors seemingly cannot be opened as the ramp deploys.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby tonyp » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:12 pm

It must be an everyday event! Today the driver put out the ramp to let a lady with a pram and one other child out. The door threshold was so close to the kerb the ramp didn't even have an angle on it. She could have basically walked straight out. Anyway we all waited while this show shuffled out the front door when she could just as easily have gone out the centre door. The next delay was caused by me not wanting to step on the ramp in case the driver retracted it, so I asked him if he wished to retract before I boarded, which he didn't. More delay.

All quite charming but as Mr OCB points out, an operational impediment.

Anyway, for me as a visitor, a small quibble compared to the overall excellence of the bus system that leaves anything in NSW for dead. Any small refinement will make it even better. Next best step you can take (pardon the pun) is fully low floor buses with stepless gangway to improve the passenger process internally. In my view, part-low floor encourages a "mosh pit" effect creating congestion in the front half of the bus. Your Citelis artic was a starting point. Don't stop there.
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