• Advertisement

Ansett Pioneer Jupiter Coach

Forum rules
  • A topic icon must be used with the thread title of all threads.
  • No more than 10 photos per post with a maximum of 50 in any one page in a thread.
  • Maximum photo width 1000 pixels.
  • For full photo rules and how to attach photos see viewtopic.php?f=10&t=28459
  • Thank you :)

Ansett Pioneer Jupiter Coach

Postby Industry » Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:29 pm

Does anyone happen to have a copy of this coach which was sold to Continental Coachlines in Brisbane and the Capricorn in Bundaberg. it appears some were posted on Bus Australia about 4 years ago but no longer available to view.
Attachments
10606300_406177502866492_7902281480586298587_n.jpg
User avatar
Industry
 
Posts: 836
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 7:45 am
Location: NSW
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 51 times

Re: Ansett Pioneer Jupiter Coach

Postby Centralian » Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:01 pm

Why does this coach remind me of the one that rolled on the Jenolan Caves Road (NSW) back in the '60's with loss of life ? It was rebuilt with a CCMC body and saw service with Hadfields at Engadine. Probably just a similar body style.
User avatar
Centralian
 
Posts: 2198
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:03 pm
Has thanked: 374 times
Been thanked: 312 times

Re: Ansett Pioneer Jupiter Coach

Postby CCCC » Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:10 pm

Centralian wrote:Why does this coach remind me of the one that rolled on the Jenolan Caves Road (NSW) back in the '60's with loss of life ? It was rebuilt with a CCMC body and saw service with Hadfields at Engadine. Probably just a similar body style.


was a thread on this some time ago.
It ended up at Road Runner Wangi for a short period before trading it on another vehicle , but no idea if this pic is the one your thinking.
CCCC
 
Posts: 718
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: vaucluse
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 58 times
Favourite Vehicle: Silvereagle and Scenicruiser

Re: Ansett Pioneer Jupiter Coach

Postby Looselion » Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:19 pm

Industry wrote:Does anyone happen to have a copy of this coach which was sold to Continental Coachlines in Brisbane and the Capricorn in Bundaberg. it appears some were posted on Bus Australia about 4 years ago but no longer available to view.


Here's the MD Jupiter based unit Industry, in Capricorn colours.
If I recall the 1962 Jenolan Caves accident correctly, this involved one of Pioneer's MD Saturn based units.
Attachments
Ansair Magirus Deutz Jupiter Coach (1000 x 663).jpg
User avatar
Looselion
 
Posts: 766
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:54 am
Location: Queensland
Has thanked: 102 times
Been thanked: 97 times
Favourite Vehicle: 3 1/2 window Flxible Clipper

Re: Ansett Pioneer Jupiter Coach

Postby Looselion » Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:27 pm

Here's a grab of one newspaper image from the time, showing enough detail to identify the coach as one of the Saturn based units.
Attachments
Pioneer Jenolan Caves  Triple Fatality - 1962.png
Pioneer Tours - Jenolan Caves Triple Fatality - 1962
Pioneer Jenolan Caves Triple Fatality - 1962.png (126.01 KiB) Viewed 5057 times
User avatar
Looselion
 
Posts: 766
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:54 am
Location: Queensland
Has thanked: 102 times
Been thanked: 97 times
Favourite Vehicle: 3 1/2 window Flxible Clipper

Re: Ansett Pioneer Jupiter Coach

Postby Industry » Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:33 pm

I think you find the Jenolan Caves crashes were a Flxible Clipper and the other was a Saturn done up a bit from the standard one I'm pretty sure their is a photo in NSW Bus Prop archives
Attachments
untitled.bmp.jpg
untitled.bmp.jpg (108.92 KiB) Viewed 5060 times
User avatar
Industry
 
Posts: 836
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 7:45 am
Location: NSW
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 51 times

Re: Ansett Pioneer Jupiter Coach

Postby Looselion » Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:53 pm

It's well accepted that there was only one MD Jupiter based unit built for and operated by Pioneer, so I'm attaching the following press image from the time, which shows design elements common with that particular coach, especially the separate ribbed aluminium dressings along each side (which appear not to continue around the front as per the Jupiter build.)
This certainly wasn't a Flxible Clipper, yet the previous press image I've attached also seems to conflict with the frontal design of the Jupiter....
I remember the accident at the time, and we all seemed to take it as being one of the Saturn units. I really don't think we at Redline were aware of the Jupiter build at all.
The photos confuse the issue a little I'm afraid, but I think Industry's right in assuming this was a Saturn with some Jupiter-like design influences....
Attachments
Pioneer Accident 5.jpg
Pioneer Accident 5.jpg (132.8 KiB) Viewed 5044 times
User avatar
Looselion
 
Posts: 766
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:54 am
Location: Queensland
Has thanked: 102 times
Been thanked: 97 times
Favourite Vehicle: 3 1/2 window Flxible Clipper

Re: Ansett Pioneer Jupiter Coach

Postby Industry » Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:39 pm

Looselion have a look at todays post in the Bus Lounge, it looks like Sir reg never wanted the Jupiter project to be a success as he used it to get the import duties on his American imports lifted and I believe Geoff Foster wrote a story in Australian Bus heritage in 1987 about it also.
User avatar
Industry
 
Posts: 836
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 7:45 am
Location: NSW
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 51 times

Re: Ansett Pioneer Jupiter Coach

Postby Looselion » Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:32 am

Yes Industry, we caught onto that fairly early in the piece, as many of us considered that Reg's initial plan for the Flxible Clippers was to import them all complete from the USA and do the RHD (and engine) conversions at Essendon.
Immediately post war he hadn't accumulated sufficient political influence to make that happen so he engineered the next best alternative.
User avatar
Looselion
 
Posts: 766
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:54 am
Location: Queensland
Has thanked: 102 times
Been thanked: 97 times
Favourite Vehicle: 3 1/2 window Flxible Clipper

Re: Ansett Pioneer Jupiter Coach

Postby Centralian » Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:04 pm

Sorry for taking the topic away from the Jupiter coach. Re the Jenolan Caves crash vehicle - found my notes from information previously
provided by VIKing:
- the vehicle was Ansett Pioneer D309
- Ld RTW ERT1/1 with Ansair body C41F of 10.58 build.
- the Jenolan Caves accident happened on 5/1/1962 with 4 killed.
- I have heard the cause was coach pulling over to make way and roadway collapsed.
- remains purchased by JD Barnes in Melbourne.
- rebodied with CCMC 63.317 DP45F build date 25.3.1964
- went to Barnes Coaches Lane Cove as mo5005.
- to Deanes with runs
- sold to Warry, Myuna Bay as MO5842.
- purchased by Hadfields ex Suttons dealer as mo5856 in 1973

My photo of the rebodied vehicle with Hadfields.
5856.jpg
5856.jpg (106.67 KiB) Viewed 4943 times


Then saw further service with Highway Tours and Westlink Regents Park.
Withdrawn around 1989.
User avatar
Centralian
 
Posts: 2198
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:03 pm
Has thanked: 374 times
Been thanked: 312 times

Re: Ansett Pioneer Jupiter Coach

Postby Bedford-29 » Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:02 pm

A few pictures that might be of interest.Plus to I think the coach involved in the Jenolans crash might like one in the first picture.Pictures from the Ken Magor collection.
Attachments
Pioneer Express Leyland Worldmaster.jpg
PIONEER EXPRESS LEYLAND WORLDMASTER
Pioneer Express Ansair Saturn.jpg
PIONEER EXPRESS ANSAIR SATURN
Roadrunner Tours Leyland Worldmaster MO-5842.jpg
ROADRUNNER TOURS LEYLAND WORLDMASTER MO-5842
Hadfields Bus Lines Leyland Worldmaster MO-5856.jpg
HADFIELDS BUS LINES LEYLAND WORLDMASTER MO-5856
Previoulsy known as United Diesel 15
User avatar
Bedford-29
 
Posts: 4936
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:31 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 556 times

Re: Ansett Pioneer Jupiter Coach

Postby Red and Cream » Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:37 pm

Centralian wrote:Sorry for taking the topic away from the Jupiter coach. Re the Jenolan Caves crash vehicle - found my notes from information previously
provided by VIKing:
- the vehicle was Ansett Pioneer D309
- Ld RTW ERT1/1 with Ansair body C41F of 10.58 build.
- the Jenolan Caves accident happened on 5/1/1962 with 4 killed.
- I have heard the cause was coach pulling over to make way and roadway collapsed.
- remains purchased by JD Barnes in Melbourne.
- rebodied with CCMC 63.317 DP45F build date 25.3.1964
- went to Barnes Coaches Lane Cove as mo5005.
- to Deanes with runs
- sold to Warry, Myuna Bay as MO5842.
- purchased by Hadfields ex Suttons dealer as mo5856 in 1973

My photo of the rebodied vehicle with Hadfields

Then saw further service with Highway Tours and Westlink Regents Park.
Withdrawn around 1989.


Just to add a few more details to Centralian's welcome notes, the Leyland RTW had a couple of redgos with Pioneer, HBB 226 and ISD 850 and had Ansair body number UF 29 with the name "Bingarra" attached to it . When Barnes had it rebodied by CCMC and then registered for his services in Melbourne it became HZC 146.Some time later Barnes reregistered his buses with personalized number plates beginning with the letters JDB which i believe were his initials and the Leyland became JDB 004. On buying route 224 in Sydney Barnes transferred a number of his buses from Victoria to operate the Sydney services and the Leyland was one of those in April 1966 where it became m/o 5005. Centralian has provided the later details of its eventful life and just to finish off here is a photo i captured of Barnes m/o 5005 at Lane Cove in 1966.
Last edited by Red and Cream on Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Red and Cream
 
Posts: 893
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:35 pm
Location: Sydney
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 146 times

Re: Ansett Pioneer Jupiter Coach

Postby Industry » Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:48 am

Thank you to all for your imput
User avatar
Industry
 
Posts: 836
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 7:45 am
Location: NSW
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 51 times

Re: Ansett Pioneer Jupiter Coach

Postby Looselion » Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:02 pm

Centralian wrote:Sorry for taking the topic away from the Jupiter coach. Re the Jenolan Caves crash vehicle - found my notes from information previously
provided by VIKing:
- the vehicle was Ansett Pioneer D309
- Ld RTW ERT1/1 with Ansair body C41F of 10.58 build.
- the Jenolan Caves accident happened on 5/1/1962 with 4 killed.
- I have heard the cause was coach pulling over to make way and roadway collapsed.
- remains purchased by JD Barnes in Melbourne.
- rebodied with CCMC 63.317 DP45F build date 25.3.1964
- went to Barnes Coaches Lane Cove as mo5005.
- to Deanes with runs
- sold to Warry, Myuna Bay as MO5842.
- purchased by Hadfields ex Suttons dealer as mo5856 in 1973

My photo of the rebodied vehicle with Hadfields.
5856.jpg


Then saw further service with Highway Tours and Westlink Regents Park.
Withdrawn around 1989.


What an intriguing historical sequence recorded here by Centralian, Red & Cream and Bedford-29....
The first image posted by Bedford-29 could well be the same Jenolan Caves accident vehicle.
Thanks to these contributors there's no longer an assumption that this was a Deutz based coach, as was the case for me back in 1962 and ever since....
User avatar
Looselion
 
Posts: 766
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:54 am
Location: Queensland
Has thanked: 102 times
Been thanked: 97 times
Favourite Vehicle: 3 1/2 window Flxible Clipper

Re: Ansett Pioneer Jupiter Coach

Postby Centralian » Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:57 pm

Back to the Jupiter. I am informed by a multiple Flxible Clipper owner here in the Blue Mountains that the Jupiter still exists and may have recently been available for sale. The Flxible Clipper Club of Australia website has images of it plus some information - scroll down images gallery on the site. If any more info is required I have a few names and can pass on queries.
User avatar
Centralian
 
Posts: 2198
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:03 pm
Has thanked: 374 times
Been thanked: 312 times

Re: Ansett Pioneer Jupiter Coach

Postby pauwri » Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:15 pm

The Jupiter has been sitting near Bundaburg for many years.
It is own by a fellow who knows what it is and won't be talk out of it to soon.
It would be nice to see it snaped up and restored, she is a big piece of history.
pauwri
 
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:14 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 19 times

Re: Ansett Pioneer Jupiter Coach

Postby Bedford-29 » Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:54 pm

Here is a picture of another Pioneer Tours bus for you to look at.Pictures from the Ken Magor and Leon Batman collection.
http://www.busaustralia.com/gallery/dis ... ?pos=-3313
Attachments
Pioneer Tours Leyland Leopard 10-395.jpg
PIONEER TOURS LEYLAND LEOPARD 10-395
Previoulsy known as United Diesel 15
User avatar
Bedford-29
 
Posts: 4936
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:31 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 556 times

Re: Ansett Pioneer Jupiter Coach

Postby Centralian » Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:21 pm

One story I've been told that has been bandied about was that Reg wanted to use imported US vehicles, but because of restrictions at the time had to build a 'lemon' in Australia to prove to the authorities that it was necessary to import to get what he wanted. Therefore only one was built, and then came the Scenicruiser, 4106, 4107, MC7,8 & 9.
User avatar
Centralian
 
Posts: 2198
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:03 pm
Has thanked: 374 times
Been thanked: 312 times



  • Advertisement

Return to Photos - General/Miscellaneous/Various

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests