Rex Law's Redline Coaches

[system improver]

The June 1976 edition of Fleetline (at that time, the official journal of the Historic Commercial Vehicle Association of Australia or HCVA, the Bus and Coach Society of Victoria and the Bus and Coach Society of SA) carried an authoritative story written by V I King (a member of the ATDB 34 years on) on the history of the Denning Monocoach. The Denning company used a numbering nomenclature for these vehilces which gave the number of the vehicle and the year of manufacture. So, D1-66 was Denning Monocoach 1 and it was built in 1966. Apparently, Denning did not (generally) put body numbers on vehicles.

This is relevant to the current discussion as, it turns out, that D1-66, in fact, went to Redline, as did D2-66, D3-66, D4-67 and D6-67 as described in the Fleetline article. However, the article also points out that none were of the monocoque construction technique, rather they were bodies built on made up chassis from Redline. The article mentions that D1-66 and D2-66 were built on an " AEC lorry chassis" with a GM4V engine, D3-66 was built on an unnamed chassis (Ford Thames?) by Redline with a Cummins V8 engine, D4-67 was built on a "second hand Seddon chassis" built up by Redline and also with a Cummins V8 engine and D6-67 was also based on an AEC lorry chassis, new to Redline, and with a Scania engine. Just why Denning used the nomenclature for these "non-mono" coaches remains a mystery.

The Redline numbers are also unclear to me from my records, but here is a guess: D1-66 was No. 66 at Redline, D2-66 was No.65, D3-66 was No.72, D4-66 was No. 77 and D6-67 was No. 79.

Here is a pic of No 66 after it was later fitted with a Scania Vabis engine (badge visible):


There is clearly a lot of clarification required here and I look forward to the responses.

[Looselion]

All ATDB posts by Looselion are now being largely removed, with the information to be solely available within my forthcoming book about Rex Law and Redline, which will include a wider history of the early foundation years of the Australian interstate touring and express passenger industry.
I was very pleased to share some of the Redline story here in the ATDB forum, but now after many long hours at the keyboard, and in-depth researching of Rex Law's story and the general post-war history, I feel a need to now consolidate the entire story solely within the forthcoming pages of my book.
Many thanks for all your interest and posts here, which have over the period given me the confidence to go ahead and put the book together.
Of course I will notify one and all when the book is published, and please be sure I intend to do so at a very reasonable price.
Glenn Law.

[system improver]

I must admit that I am not a structural engineer, or any sort of engineer as far as that is concerned. So, my knowledge of such matters comes only from what I have read in bus journals and books. My take on the difference between a "mono" and and a "non mono" bus design is as follows. With a traditional chassis plus body design, the body is constructed separate to the chassis and then simply bolted to the chassis. This means that all the heavy mechanical bits of the bus, like the engine, the transmission and the diff, are supported by the chassis design irrespective of what body is placed on it (within limits). At the other extreme, a monocoque body design has the structural integrity of the body supporting the heavy mechanical bits, thereby eliminating the need, and weight, of the central steel spine and wings of the traditional chassis. In the middle, there are hybrids. The question is, were the Redline buses in question, full chassis plus body or partial hybrids? If Redline constructed the chassis, however derived, and it was driven independently to Denning for bodying then that would seem to answer the question. If some construction of chassis was undertaken at Denning, then that would perhaps muddy the waters somewhat. Given that some published records name a Redline bus at the first mono numbered bus, then I think it is more than academic as to the answer. A Redline vehicle having this distinction would be more than noteworthy. As mentioned previously, it may have simply been an idiosyncrasy of Denning. But it may be more. We know that the Grenda GM vehicle from 1967 (D5-67) was the first full Denning monocoach. Its genesis and immediate successors is still a little bit hazy.

[Daz]

I'll ask Ray about the later coach numbers. he remembers them all.

Daz.

[Mr Scania]

No 77 , Built on a Seddon Chassis. The Seddon badge was located on the dash just inside the door. This coach was one of the first with Full Thru Bins. The fuel tank was across in front of the diff. Where as the coaches of that time only had side bins with the fuel tanks along the coach between the chassis rails.
At Collins is had a Leyland 401 with 6 speed overdrive crash box as they all did.

[system improver]

There were many deliveries during 1967, including some Lewis bodied coaches like No. 84, a Bedford VAM chassis with a RE powered by a Perkins 6.354 engine:


Also, the first deck and a half coaches arrived from Denning, on a Commer chassis with a Commer TS.3 engine, like No.89 new in October 1967. It was air conditioned and rest room equiped:


Both pictures were taken by Bruce Tilley.

[Looselion]

All ATDB posts by Looselion are now being largely removed, with the information to be solely available within my forthcoming book about Rex Law and Redline, which will include a wider history of the early foundation years of the Australian interstate touring and express passenger industry.
I was very pleased to share some of the Redline story here in the ATDB forum, but now after many long hours at the keyboard, and in-depth researching of Rex Law's story and the general post-war history, I feel a need to now consolidate the entire story solely within the forthcoming pages of my book.
Many thanks for all your interest and posts here, which have over the period given me the confidence to go ahead and put the book together.
Of course I will notify one and all when the book is published, and please be sure I intend to do so at a very reasonable price.
Glenn Law.

[Looselion]

All ATDB posts by Looselion are now being largely removed, with the information to be solely available within my forthcoming book about Rex Law and Redline, which will include a wider history of the early foundation years of the Australian interstate touring and express passenger industry.
I was very pleased to share some of the Redline story here in the ATDB forum, but now after many long hours at the keyboard, and in-depth researching of Rex Law's story and the general post-war history, I feel a need to now consolidate the entire story solely within the forthcoming pages of my book.
Many thanks for all your interest and posts here, which have over the period given me the confidence to go ahead and put the book together.
Of course I will notify one and all when the book is published, and please be sure I intend to do so at a very reasonable price.
Glenn Law.

[system improver]

Also during 1967/68, a number of Watt bodied Ford R-192 vehicles entered service. One of the first was No. 78 from 3/67:


And one of the last was No. 108 from 11/68:


This raises the question, a perennial question for charter/tour operators, regarding the balance between growth and consolidation. On the one hand, growth gives capital flow to expand and to repay some debts, on the other hand, consolidation gives the opportunity to reduce debt even more and ride out fluctuations in demand. Serendipity always plays a part and, as usual, all of these issues are better determined in hindsight that at the time. Any thoughts from the time would be welcomed.

Note: In the second picture, while the Tea House still stands, the servo has been replaced by a casino. Spooky!

[Looselion]

All ATDB posts by Looselion are now being largely removed, with the information to be solely available within my forthcoming book about Rex Law and Redline, which will include a wider history of the early foundation years of the Australian interstate touring and express passenger industry.
I was very pleased to share some of the Redline story here in the ATDB forum, but now after many long hours at the keyboard, and in-depth researching of Rex Law's story and the general post-war history, I feel a need to now consolidate the entire story solely within the forthcoming pages of my book.
Many thanks for all your interest and posts here, which have over the period given me the confidence to go ahead and put the book together.
Of course I will notify one and all when the book is published, and please be sure I intend to do so at a very reasonable price.
Glenn Law.

[Looselion]

All ATDB posts by Looselion are now being largely removed, with the information to be solely available within my forthcoming book about Rex Law and Redline, which will include a wider history of the early foundation years of the Australian interstate touring and express passenger industry.
I was very pleased to share some of the Redline story here in the ATDB forum, but now after many long hours at the keyboard, and in-depth researching of Rex Law's story and the general post-war history, I feel a need to now consolidate the entire story solely within the forthcoming pages of my book.
Many thanks for all your interest and posts here, which have over the period given me the confidence to go ahead and put the book together.
Of course I will notify one and all when the book is published, and please be sure I intend to do so at a very reasonable price.
Glenn Law.

[Looselion]

All ATDB posts by Looselion are now being largely removed, with the information to be solely available within my forthcoming book about Rex Law and Redline, which will include a wider history of the early foundation years of the Australian interstate touring and express passenger industry.
I was very pleased to share some of the Redline story here in the ATDB forum, but now after many long hours at the keyboard, and in-depth researching of Rex Law's story and the general post-war history, I feel a need to now consolidate the entire story solely within the forthcoming pages of my book.
Many thanks for all your interest and posts here, which have over the period given me the confidence to go ahead and put the book together.
Of course I will notify one and all when the book is published, and please be sure I intend to do so at a very reasonable price.
Glenn Law.

[Looselion]

All ATDB posts by Looselion are now being largely removed, with the information to be solely available within my forthcoming book about Rex Law and Redline, which will include a wider history of the early foundation years of the Australian interstate touring and express passenger industry.
I was very pleased to share some of the Redline story here in the ATDB forum, but now after many long hours at the keyboard, and in-depth researching of Rex Law's story and the general post-war history, I feel a need to now consolidate the entire story solely within the forthcoming pages of my book.
Many thanks for all your interest and posts here, which have over the period given me the confidence to go ahead and put the book together.
Of course I will notify one and all when the book is published, and please be sure I intend to do so at a very reasonable price.
Glenn Law.

[Looselion]

All ATDB posts by Looselion are now being largely removed, with the information to be solely available within my forthcoming book about Rex Law and Redline, which will include a wider history of the early foundation years of the Australian interstate touring and express passenger industry.
I was very pleased to share some of the Redline story here in the ATDB forum, but now after many long hours at the keyboard, and in-depth researching of Rex Law's story and the general post-war history, I feel a need to now consolidate the entire story solely within the forthcoming pages of my book.
Many thanks for all your interest and posts here, which have over the period given me the confidence to go ahead and put the book together.
Of course I will notify one and all when the book is published, and please be sure I intend to do so at a very reasonable price.
Glenn Law.

[Looselion]

All ATDB posts by Looselion are now being largely removed, with the information to be solely available within my forthcoming book about Rex Law and Redline, which will include a wider history of the early foundation years of the Australian interstate touring and express passenger industry.
I was very pleased to share some of the Redline story here in the ATDB forum, but now after many long hours at the keyboard, and in-depth researching of Rex Law's story and the general post-war history, I feel a need to now consolidate the entire story solely within the forthcoming pages of my book.
Many thanks for all your interest and posts here, which have over the period given me the confidence to go ahead and put the book together.
Of course I will notify one and all when the book is published, and please be sure I intend to do so at a very reasonable price.
Glenn Law.

[Looselion]

All ATDB posts by Looselion are now being largely removed, with the information to be solely available within my forthcoming book about Rex Law and Redline, which will include a wider history of the early foundation years of the Australian interstate touring and express passenger industry.
I was very pleased to share some of the Redline story here in the ATDB forum, but now after many long hours at the keyboard, and in-depth researching of Rex Law's story and the general post-war history, I feel a need to now consolidate the entire story solely within the forthcoming pages of my book.
Many thanks for all your interest and posts here, which have over the period given me the confidence to go ahead and put the book together.
Of course I will notify one and all when the book is published, and please be sure I intend to do so at a very reasonable price.
Glenn Law.

[system improver]

Great line up shots there Looselion, especially as it a colour shot. As well as a JW convention, it looks a bit like a Denning convention!

[Looselion]

All ATDB posts by Looselion are now being largely removed, with the information to be solely available within my forthcoming book about Rex Law and Redline, which will include a wider history of the early foundation years of the Australian interstate touring and express passenger industry.
I was very pleased to share some of the Redline story here in the ATDB forum, but now after many long hours at the keyboard, and in-depth researching of Rex Law's story and the general post-war history, I feel a need to now consolidate the entire story solely within the forthcoming pages of my book.
Many thanks for all your interest and posts here, which have over the period given me the confidence to go ahead and put the book together.
Of course I will notify one and all when the book is published, and please be sure I intend to do so at a very reasonable price.
Glenn Law.

[ALBION1881]

Hope the drivers didn`t turn into born again Christians being a JW convention and looks like the whole Redline fleet was used.

[GM]

I have checked the Ken Magor/BCA CD for Redline and found only two Nos 64 & 69. GM

[Looselion]

All ATDB posts by Looselion are now being largely removed, with the information to be solely available within my forthcoming book about Rex Law and Redline, which will include a wider history of the early foundation years of the Australian interstate touring and express passenger industry.
I was very pleased to share some of the Redline story here in the ATDB forum, but now after many long hours at the keyboard, and in-depth researching of Rex Law's story and the general post-war history, I feel a need to now consolidate the entire story solely within the forthcoming pages of my book.
Many thanks for all your interest and posts here, which have over the period given me the confidence to go ahead and put the book together.
Of course I will notify one and all when the book is published, and please be sure I intend to do so at a very reasonable price.
Glenn Law.

[Mr Scania]

Bob Warren, Ray Collins, Laurie Macbeth and John Nosworthy have been consulted on the information of vehicles and events. Some information is conflicting.

[Looselion]

All ATDB posts by Looselion are now being largely removed, with the information to be solely available within my forthcoming book about Rex Law and Redline, which will include a wider history of the early foundation years of the Australian interstate touring and express passenger industry.
I was very pleased to share some of the Redline story here in the ATDB forum, but now after many long hours at the keyboard, and in-depth researching of Rex Law's story and the general post-war history, I feel a need to now consolidate the entire story solely within the forthcoming pages of my book.
Many thanks for all your interest and posts here, which have over the period given me the confidence to go ahead and put the book together.
Of course I will notify one and all when the book is published, and please be sure I intend to do so at a very reasonable price.
Glenn Law.

[Looselion]

All ATDB posts by Looselion are now being largely removed, with the information to be solely available within my forthcoming book about Rex Law and Redline, which will include a wider history of the early foundation years of the Australian interstate touring and express passenger industry.
I was very pleased to share some of the Redline story here in the ATDB forum, but now after many long hours at the keyboard, and in-depth researching of Rex Law's story and the general post-war history, I feel a need to now consolidate the entire story solely within the forthcoming pages of my book.
Many thanks for all your interest and posts here, which have over the period given me the confidence to go ahead and put the book together.
Of course I will notify one and all when the book is published, and please be sure I intend to do so at a very reasonable price.
Glenn Law.

[Looselion]

All ATDB posts by Looselion are now being largely removed, with the information to be solely available within my forthcoming book about Rex Law and Redline, which will include a wider history of the early foundation years of the Australian interstate touring and express passenger industry.
I was very pleased to share some of the Redline story here in the ATDB forum, but now after many long hours at the keyboard, and in-depth researching of Rex Law's story and the general post-war history, I feel a need to now consolidate the entire story solely within the forthcoming pages of my book.
Many thanks for all your interest and posts here, which have over the period given me the confidence to go ahead and put the book together.
Of course I will notify one and all when the book is published, and please be sure I intend to do so at a very reasonable price.
Glenn Law.