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Transdev Melbourne News 2017

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Re: Transdev Melbourne News 2017

Postby burrumbus » Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:06 pm

Interesting observations ,as allways,krustyklo.
I have heard that the patronage loss is in the order of 6 million pax per annum.Quite significant in terms of the overall track bus patronage in Melbourne.
I think a potential problem in walking away from their MMBF contract is the extent of other public transport contracts held by Transdev owned companies and in joint ventures.Walking away in Melbourne ,would not be seen in a good light by other state governments, when considering other public transport contracts up for grabs.They might just have to limp through to the cessation of the contract.As stated elsewhere a very poor choice,running on price alone, by the former Liberal government.
Probably why National Express hasn't participated, as far as I am aware ,in other tendering exercises since their debacle in Melbourne,Sydney and Brisbane.
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Re: Transdev Melbourne News 2017

Postby venturatiger » Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:32 am

The patronage is still there , just a good percentage just don't pay. A recent example on early run the other morning of about 40 pax only half paid. And it is across most types,Tradies, school Kids, pensioners,Uni students & unemployed.The most honest are office workers & Asians

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Re: Transdev Melbourne News 2017

Postby krustyklo » Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:59 pm

The patronage is still there , just a good percentage just don't pay. A recent example on early run the other morning of about 40 pax only half paid. And it is across most types,Tradies, school Kids, pensioners,Uni students & unemployed.The most honest are office workers & Asians

I'd be interested in others' points of view, but my observations are that of the routes I use:
  • 293 - no real change. Mostly full seated load during school terms in peak hour, not that full outside those times.
  • 901 - the northern section from The Pines to South Morang has never been great but over the last 5 years I would suggest patronage has slowly increased, especially peak journeys to/from Plenty to Greensborough, and peak journeys from Greensborough to Templestowe. On the other hand, this is far outweighed by significant losses in peak hour between Blackburn Station and The Pines. When the 286 and it's 10 minute peak hour frequency was first deleted leaving just the 901 and it's unreliable 15 minute frequency, all of the peak hour 901 services I used around that time would pull up at Blackburn Station, open both doors and an almost full bus load, including many standees, would pile on. Now, it is probably half a bus load or even less. In the course of 3 and a half years, Transdev's cost saving has probably halved, or near enough, travel along Blackburn Rd - likely several hundred journeys a day.
  • 902 - between Greensborough and Doncaster East I would suggest a 10-20% decrease compared to 5 years ago when the 902 would be standing room only along Williamsons Rd, now it is a nearly full seated load.

That's including fare evaders where the 902 seems to be getting worse, the 293 most people in peak validate with the exception of about 10-15% of students, and the 901 about the same as the past. If you want a good indication of what is happening, I would suggest that 901 route between Blackburn and The Pines in peak hour would be worth exploring from validation data as most of those people are office workers going home in the afternoon peak and almost all users getting on at Blackburn validate. I would also suggest that if doing comparisons, Hoban still seem to do the patronage counts twice a year for the PTV including Transdev services, and fare evasion as a percentage likely hasn't changed so much over 5 years you couldn't do a meaningful pre- and post-Transdev comparison.

Even then, Transdev make their own bed by foregoing using their own ticket inspectors for the infrequent intermittent checks that occur on their services. It would be interesting for someone to comment on how many ticket inspectors Grenda's employed for example - or were (are) the stickers in the buses referring to Grenda's ticket inspectors a bluff?
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Re: Transdev Melbourne News 2017

Postby BroadGauge » Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:12 am

krustyklo wrote:Even then, Transdev make their own bed by foregoing using their own ticket inspectors for the infrequent intermittent checks that occur on their services. It would be interesting for someone to comment on how many ticket inspectors Grenda's employed for example - or were (are) the stickers in the buses referring to Grenda's ticket inspectors a bluff?

Grenda's certainly did employ their own Authorised Officers, and I'm pretty certain that this still continues to do this day. No idea as to the numbers of them.

As far as I'm aware no other operators apart from Ventura employ their own AOs, but since the roll-out of the multi-modal authorised officers the number of ticket checks on buses has definitely visibly increased, albeit from a low base.

They seem to often target major interchanges (many serviced by Transdev) but surprisingly they do turn up in more far flung places from time to time, like at least once they've spent a day riding the Sunbury town routes :shock:

Going back a few years there used to be AOs employed by BusVic, but I haven't seen them around for a long time.
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Re: Transdev Melbourne News 2017

Postby howlerbus » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:06 am

BroadGauge wrote:They seem to often target major interchanges (many serviced by Transdev) but surprisingly they do turn up in more far flung places from time to time, like at least once they've spent a day riding the Sunbury town routes :shock:


I occasionally see them at Geelong Station and Moorabool Street Bus Interchange, but not often enough. Victoria is the state where paying for your fare seems to be optional.
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Re: Transdev Melbourne News 2017

Postby krustyklo » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:30 pm

Seems to be an increase in other operators operating Transdev services again. Noted buses from Kastoria, Ventura, and Dysons over the last couple of days. Not sure if it's coincidence, but they appear to be consistent with operators and runs, for example, Dysons 701 and 702 operated the Templestowe 281 and The Pines 295 yesterday and today it was 708 and 714.

Also spotted a plain white low floor bus with a small white '3' sticker on the rear window on several runs today including the 4.00pm from Doncaster to The Pines on route 295. Not sure whose provenance this is.

Many of the route 293s seem to be commonly replaced. Except when they don't run like the 7.23am from Greensborough yesterday.
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Re: Transdev Melbourne News 2017

Postby burrumbus » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:13 pm

BroadGauge wrote:
krustyklo wrote:Even then, Transdev make their own bed by foregoing using their own ticket inspectors for the infrequent intermittent checks that occur on their services. It would be interesting for someone to comment on how many ticket inspectors Grenda's employed for example - or were (are) the stickers in the buses referring to Grenda's ticket inspectors a bluff?

Grenda's certainly did employ their own Authorised Officers, and I'm pretty certain that this still continues to do this day. No idea as to the numbers of them.

As far as I'm aware no other operators apart from Ventura employ their own AOs, but since the roll-out of the multi-modal authorised officers the number of ticket checks on buses has definitely visibly increased, albeit from a low base.

They seem to often target major interchanges (many serviced by Transdev) but surprisingly they do turn up in more far flung places from time to time, like at least once they've spent a day riding the Sunbury town routes :shock:

Going back a few years there used to be AOs employed by BusVic, but I haven't seen them around for a long time.

In the 1980's Grendas as a smaller operator employed 3 inspectors.Ventura also employed at least 2.I'm pretty sure the former Grendas operation under Ventura ownership stll has them.
Whilst riding routes in the Craigieburn area earlier this year,3 PTV inspectors were doing the rounds.They nabbed a couple of pax on one route I was on to Roxburgh Park.
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Re: Transdev Melbourne News 2017

Postby Richard1207 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:59 am

krustyklo wrote:Dysons 701 and 702 operated the Templestowe 281 and The Pines 295 yesterday and today it was 708 and 714.

Dysons doesn't have a bus numbered 708, do you mean 718?
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Re: Transdev Melbourne News 2017

Postby krustyklo » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:29 pm

Dysons doesn't have a bus numbered 708, do you mean 718?

Ooops... :oops: Pretty sure it was 70x rather than 718.

To make amends, I took better notice of today's buses and 718 ran the 8am route 295 to The Pines whilst right behind it entering Shoppingtown on the 281 to Templestowe was 734.
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Re: Transdev Melbourne News 2017

Postby JRBUS123 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:53 pm

I've seen quite a few buses from other operators filling in for Transdev during crisis volume #2. Operators like Dysons, Ventura, Broadmeadows bus lines, Nuline and Kastoria have been filling in around the ex-national Bus routes. A few interesting observations included spotting Ventura #252 running a route 903 with a Ventura driver running the driver seat on Thursday.

Also, it looks like more new buses are on the way for Transdev. Gemilang #138 is yet to be delivered or being prepared to enter service. Wonder how they managed to buy some new buses considering the amount of money they probably had to spend on leased buses from other operators previously. Really interesting to be honest
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Re: Transdev Melbourne News 2017

Postby maxy54 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:38 am

JRBUS123 wrote:A few interesting observations included spotting Ventura #252 running a route 903 with a Ventura driver running the driver seat on Thursday.


Ventura are running the 903 peak hour shuttles between Heidelberg and Mentone, utilising the low floors that are being used for Shuttles during Skyrail. I’ve seen #785, #858, #1035 & #1249 amongst others assist
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Re: Transdev Melbourne News 2017

Postby krustyklo » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:44 pm

Wonder how they managed to buy some new buses considering the amount of money they probably had to spend on leased buses from other operators previously. Really interesting to be honest

The lead time for buying a bus is quite long, even compared to the several month wait some people experience buying a car manufactured overseas with a waiting list. I suspect the new buses arriving somewhat pre-date even the previous crisis in terms of when they were ordered and a deposit put down.

One figure I have heard is that the waiting time at Volgren is about 2 years from time of order to bus being delivered - pretty sure it was on these forums I saw that in relation to why Transdev went with Gemilang. Whereas the Transdev crisis #1 was the end of June or only 5 months ago. Hopefully some newer buses arrive in time before the next one...
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Re: Transdev Melbourne News 2017

Postby Fleet Lists » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:29 pm

Would Transdev actually be buying the new buses or are they on lease through the government?
Living in the Shire.
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Re: Transdev Melbourne News 2017

Postby JRBUS123 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:57 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:Would Transdev actually be buying the new buses or are they on lease through the government?


see Krustyklo's post below
Kind regards, JRBUS123

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Last edited by JRBUS123 on Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Transdev Melbourne News 2017

Postby MAN 16.242 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:07 pm

krustyklo wrote:Whereas the Transdev crisis #1 was the end of June or only 5 months ago. Hopefully some newer buses arrive in time before the next one...
Transdev Fleet Crisis #1 was very recent being during September and October.
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Re: Transdev Melbourne News 2017

Postby krustyklo » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:29 pm

Transdev Fleet Crisis #1 was very recent being during September and October.

I knew it was around the time of a school holiday period, just got the wrong one. That's the second goof up in a week, my memory must be deteriorating with age!

Would Transdev actually be buying the new buses or are they on lease through the government?

IANAL, etc, but from the contract there is set up a special purpose vehicle (defined as 'AssetCo') whose shares are 100% owned by the 'Asset Co Financier', who is explicitly stated in the contract to be the ANZ bank. One assumes they own all the buses, which are then leased by the franchisee, in this case Transdev. One of the fixed costs reimbursed from the PTV is leasing payments, so if I have read correctly, effectively PTV pays Transdev the money for the leases for buses, which Transdev then forwards onto the 'Asset Co'. Standard money go round. If you want to know how much those payments are, they are redacted in schedule 2, section 5.
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Re: Transdev Melbourne News 2017

Postby burrumbus » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:06 pm

Thanks krustyklo.
I f I was the ANZ Bank,being the ultimate owners of the fleet,-being very concerned about Transdev's maintainence !!!
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Re: Transdev Melbourne News 2017

Postby krustyklo » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:33 pm

I f I was the ANZ Bank,being the ultimate owners of the fleet,-being very concerned about Transdev's maintainence !!!

I'm pretty sure that one of the standard conditions of such a lease is to maintain the assets to a high standard. If I were the ANZ, I'd be considering an audit right about now...
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Re: Transdev Melbourne News 2017

Postby philm » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:37 am

More Transdev duct tape maintenance (source: https://twitter.com/Met_Troll/status/936485983561728000)

Image
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Re: Transdev Melbourne News 2017

Postby scott » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:35 am

If I was the auditor, I would most likely recommend some very swift action and bring all parties to account. I studied auditing this year and I used Transdev as a case in point in one of my exam essay questions. I feel things are very perverse there at the moment.
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Re: Transdev Melbourne News 2017

Postby krustyklo » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:18 pm

More Transdev duct tape maintenance (source: https://twitter.com/Met_Troll/status/936485983561728000)

Was sitting behind that bus yesterday. Although you can't really see in that photo, part of the rear numberplate has worn off as well, although the number is still readable. Possibly not technically roadworthy though.
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Re: Transdev Melbourne News 2017

Postby BroadGauge » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:09 pm

Noticed a broken down Mercedes-Benz O500LE SmartBus being loaded onto a tow truck on Station Street in Box Hill North just before 9pm tonight.
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Re: Transdev Melbourne News 2017

Postby JRBUS123 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:28 pm

Been a lot of replacement buses yet again particularly towards the end of the week.
On Monday Crown came back running a few 280/282's once again. Tuesday and Wednesday I saw one or two replacement buses and then on Thursday saw numerous Dysons running 305's and 281's (along with #819 and #1158 buses from Ventura doing shifts as well). I'll also note that the Designline smartbuses are appearing to be a bit more common on the 903 as been seeing them more commonly out and about.

This is starting to make me wonder how long this will take until Transdev can get all their buses back on the road in safe condition for use. I actually thought crisis 2 would take at least 1 week but I now I think this might continue until the end of the year. Hope the new buses that come will end the replacements Transdev needed to borrow (until a major crisis ever happens again which might unfortunately be likely at this rate).
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Re: Transdev Melbourne News 2017

Postby MAN 16.242 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:53 pm

JRBUS123 wrote:Been a lot of replacement buses yet again particularly towards the end of the week.
On Monday Crown came back running a few 280/282's once again. Tuesday and Wednesday I saw one or two replacement buses and then on Thursday saw numerous Dysons running 305's and 281's (along with #819 and #1158 buses from Ventura doing shifts as well). I'll also note that the Designline smartbuses are appearing to be a bit more common on the 903 as been seeing them more commonly out and about.

This is starting to make me wonder how long this will take until Transdev can get all their buses back on the road in safe condition for use. I actually thought crisis 2 would take at least 1 week but I now I think this might continue until the end of the year. Hope the new buses that come will end the replacements Transdev needed to borrow (until a major crisis ever happens again which might unfortunately be likely at this rate).
The new buses due are meant to be replacements and extras to cover normal shortages. As such they may do little to help any time a fleet crisis happens with buses off the road.
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Re: Transdev Melbourne News 2017

Postby krustyklo » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:14 pm

Been a lot of replacement buses yet again particularly towards the end of the week.

As well as Dysons and Ventura buses, there have also been some from Kastoria.
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