• Advertisement

PTV: Ballarat Network Changes

Melbourne / Victoria Transport Discussion

Moderator: MAN 16.242

PTV: Ballarat Network Changes

Postby Roderick Smith » Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:08 pm

Better Bus Networks - Ballarat
PTV is inviting local residents to provide feedback on the proposed bus network upgrade and to have your say regarding bus services in your area.
We want to hear about your suggestions for routes, days and times of travel, and your views on the destinations and connections most important to you – whether it be between train and bus or between two bus routes, or key destinations.
Please join us at one of the following workshops:
Tuesday 14 June 2016, Caro Convention Centre, Mt Helen Campus, Federation University, University Drive 11am-1pm or 4pm-6pm
Wednesday 15 June 2016 Ballarat Mechanics’ Institute 117 Sturt St, Ballarat 11am-1pm or 6pm-8pm
Please register your interest in attending these workshops by emailing PTVprojects@ptv.vic.gov.au with the session you wish to attend so we can ensure we have enough space and seating arrangements.
Or it might be easier for you to return to this page between June 14 - 28 and have your say using our online survey tool.
For more information and to find out more visit ptv.vic.gov.au or call 1800 008 007 (6am – midnight).
https://getinvolved.ptv.vic.gov.au/bett ... s-Ballarat

Roderick
Roderick Smith
 
Posts: 1322
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 8:44 pm
Has thanked: 101 times
Been thanked: 194 times

Re: Ballarat proposals

Postby Craig » Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:18 pm

Existing and proposed maps for the new network have now been uploaded to the PTV website - https://getinvolved.ptv.vic.gov.au/bett ... -Ballarat/

Of particular interest is a new numbering system with "B" prefixes - PTV states this is part of "a new route numbering system for regional Victoria – unique route numbers to make finding your service on the PTV Journey Planner and PTV app faster and simpler."

Kind Regards



Craig :-)
User avatar
Craig
 
Posts: 4327
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2004 11:26 pm
Location: Edithvale, VIC
Has thanked: 1243 times
Been thanked: 459 times

Re: Ballarat proposals

Postby runawaybus » Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:10 pm

I personally think the new numbering is a catch 22. The new numbering starts with a B and has route number B10, B11 etc. However why can't it be as simple as just changing the existing route numbers with the B in front of them.

Around 2002, Torrens Transit started renumbering its bus routes in Adelaide from a three letter number to a letter prefix and then the route number. So Henley Beach Road services instead of 13x it become H3x, Jetbus (J1/J2/J3 etc), Goodwood road services (Gxx) instead of 2xx, and the last one was B for Magill Road through routed to Grange Road services which were initially 10x or 11x services. The B stood for nothing and never has. The 544 became M44 to Marion from Golden Grove Village.

Passengers even today complain about how poor the numbering is but one person claimed it was to make it similar to the New York Subway system in which subway train routes are lettered instead of pointing out what line they belong to.

I urge the PTV to release the new numbering system strategy and realise that putting letters in front of existing route numbers can be awfully confusing to not only the young but the elderly or is this to disguise that Ballarat will have less bus routes than now.

Its worked in Sydney because the L and X in front of the bus routes means limited stops and express.

I will actually e-mail my concerns to them when I get a chance this week.
Definition of Commuter Consultation or even Community Consultation: "We've made up our minds don't confuse us with the facts".
runawaybus
 
Posts: 923
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:34 pm
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: Ballarat proposals

Postby Craig » Sun Jun 19, 2016 12:56 am

Nearly every regional town network in Victoria currently has numbered their routes up from 1. This makes it confusing for someone to quickly find their route number in the journey planner and timetables search, as well as lists in apps. Furthermore, with the exception of the LaTrobe Valley most intertown routes linking two towns currently lack a number.

Assuming each town is going to get a alpha-prefix reflecting the town name (e.g. Ararat 1 becomes A1) this still means you can't simply add a prefix as there is also a route 1 in Bairnsdale & Benalla (Bendigo's route numbers have already renumbered mostly above 50 to avoid a conflict).

A significant route restructure is the best time to change route numbers as the numbers are changing for most people anyway, similar to the case in Wyndham last year and currently happening in Melbourne's outer north.

It does seem there will still be conflicts with the Bairnsdale inter-town routes with the proposed numbering - you'd think moving the proposed B10-series numbers in Ballarat to the B30-series would avoid this. Benalla could be a simple renumbering from 1 & 2 to B41 & B42

A tender recently went out to install PTV signage in towns that were missed in the earlier Viclink rollout. It obviously makes sense to rollout the new numbering system at the same time.

Most V/Line coach runs have their own numbers (shown in timetable booklets in the 80s and early 90s), and are still used in the staff reference timetable. If all inter-town coaches managed by PTV could be kept in the two digit series, the longer V/Line runs could all have a V prefix added - eg V401.

Kind Regards


Craig :-)
User avatar
Craig
 
Posts: 4327
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2004 11:26 pm
Location: Edithvale, VIC
Has thanked: 1243 times
Been thanked: 459 times

Re: Ballarat proposals

Postby Lt. Commander Data » Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:53 pm

I'm sorry to bring up a nearly month-old thread, but I just read it and have to say something.

Alpha-numeric routes. They seem good in theory, but in practice they can become confusing and meaningless.

runawaybus wrote:Around 2002, Torrens Transit started renumbering its bus routes in Adelaide from a three letter number to a letter prefix and then the route number. So Henley Beach Road services instead of 13x it become H3x, Jetbus (J1/J2/J3 etc), Goodwood road services (Gxx) instead of 2xx, and the last one was B for Magill Road through routed to Grange Road services which were initially 10x or 11x services. The B stood for nothing and never has. The 544 became M44 to Marion from Golden Grove Village.

It was more around 2004/2005, but that't not important. What is important is that it started at all.

The first alpha-numeric routes were the J1 and J2. These serivces were Jetbuses, and marketed a lot. They were through run from the Airport to the North East suburbs via the O-Bahn. The J1 replaced the T530 (T meaning Transit Link, previously TL). The J2 was a new route. And that was all fine and easy to understand.

Next was the M44. It ran/runs from Golden Grove Village to Marion Shopping Centre via the O-Bahn and Marion Rd. It's north section was the 544, and the south was the 243/F (F meaning first set down stop 11A Marion Rd (don't ask, it's an Adelaide thing)). That one was also fine to a point, but the "F" services (by that I mean the ones with a first set down) could not be separated from the all stops services easily. But hey, people got used to it, becuase the "M" stood for "M"arion, and the '44' was from the 5'44'.

Next were the RZ services. RZ meant "Roam Zone", and they would drive down your street on request (in certain areas) and drop you off. A few places around town had them, but they were fatally flawed and removed a few years back (I know there's an exception, but for the sake of keeping it simple I will leave it out).

Next came the Henley Beach Road services. They used to be in the 130 series. The problem was, route numbers 130-139 were full (at one stage), so they decided it would be a good idea to renumber them to the H30 series ("H" for Henley Beach Road, right?). The problem was, the HBR (Henley Beach Road) services are/were through-run with the Norwood Parade services (numbered in the 120 series). So they just renumbered the Norwood Parade service to the "H" series as well. The Coorara Avenue services also got the "H" renumbering, so what we have now is the H30 from Paradise Interchange to Westfield West Lakes via Coorara Ave and Henley Beach Road. The section along Coorara Ave used to be the 104. How is H30 similar to 104? I have no idea. There is also one more issue with this: not all Norwood Parade services continue through the City to HBR, many (such as the H21, H23 and H24) teminate in the City. What does the "H" mean in this case? No idea.

The Goodwood Road services were renumbered at the same time as the HBR services. Goodwood Rd was in the 210 series (as mentioned by runawaybus), and was also "full", so it was renumbered to "G" services. Goodwood Road was/is through-run with Prospect Rd, which (blissfully) only had one route, the 182. So now Goodwood Road is spread through the "G" series, with the G10 following the previous 182 and then the previous 216; the G20 following the old 212; the G21 following the old 218; the G22X following the old T219 and 219X; the G30F following the old 217 and T217; and the G40 following the old F40 (which I have chosen to ignore in this ""simple"" explanaion). Goodwood Road is one of the few corridors where perhaps the alpha-numeric numbering actually works.

Then there is the infamous "B" services. Running along Grange and Magill Roads, these routes have absolutely no meaning whatsoever. The B10 follows the old 106 and 113. The B12 follows the old 112 (but was also part of the 139 and 110 in between; the 112 had been removed for a few years before the B12 came along). There also used to be a B11, which was the old 107X. Apart from the B12 (which is a "B" version of the 112), these routes bear absolutely no resemblance to anything they go via, or what they previously were.

There are a few alpha-numerics I haven't mentioned: namely the "W" series, but there may be one or two others I have forgotten about.

runawaybus wrote:Its worked in Sydney because the L and X in front of the bus routes means limited stops and express.


In my opinion, the only time alpha-numerics should be used is in this case. Adelaide used to very sophistocated in this department; we had TL (later just T) services which meant "Transit Link" (and was a by-word for "Limited Stops"), however they were renumbered to just "T", and are now few and far between. "J" services to the airport are also OK IMO, easy to understand.

So if PTV is thinking about alpha-numeric routes, I hope they take into consideration the complete "numbering" disaster that Adelaide is in, and think about it a lot so that minimal confusion happens.

I know that my explanation wasn't the full truth, that would take about 10, 000words to write. This was just supposed to be a simple version that is easy to understand for non-locals. Hell, there are many locals who have no idea what the alpha-numberic routes mean.

This is all just my opinion on things, don't take it for gospel. :wink:


Cheers for reading the whole way through that long and complicated explanation. I just wanted to get my point across with a bit of info.
First person on 822, 865 (2016 re-route).
Last person on 164, 867, 868.
Adelaide Metro Photography. For all your Adelaide bus photo needs.
User avatar
Lt. Commander Data
 
Posts: 1991
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:09 am
Location: Stirling (West), South Australia
Has thanked: 1017 times
Been thanked: 206 times
Favourite Vehicle: Volgren CR224L

Re: Ballarat proposals

Postby tranzitjim » Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:30 pm

I dont know so much about the problems with the alpha-numerical system as claimed above.

It can mean, you have only a two or three character route ID, rather than a four or five digit number.

I would have no problem following an Alpha-Numerical route ID system, as I just need to remember it starts with the letter B, rather than the number 0.

The PTV needs to be consistent in how these numbers are used and displayed. Not being consistent can confuse people, such as displaying the B only on timetables and some maps and not on the front of buses etc.
tranzitjim
 
Posts: 778
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 4:37 pm
Location: Melbourne Victoria Australia
Has thanked: 137 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: Ballarat proposals

Postby Matty G » Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:12 am

Hello,

The new Ballarat Bus Network was announced today (Friday 9th December). It will begin January 29, 2017, coinsiding with timetable changes to the V/Line network.

http://www.thecourier.com.au/story/4345 ... 017/?cs=62

Full route changes to be revealed soon....
User avatar
Matty G
 
Posts: 337
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:45 am
Location: Reservoir
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 37 times
Favourite Vehicle: B10M

Re: Ballarat proposals

Postby Craig » Tue Dec 13, 2016 6:26 pm

A network map has been made available on the CDC Victoria website - http://www.cdcvictoria.com.au/images/pd ... rk_Map.pdf

CDC Ballarat is also looking for additional driving staff - http://www.cdcvictoria.com.au/careers

Kind Regards


Craig :-)
User avatar
Craig
 
Posts: 4327
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2004 11:26 pm
Location: Edithvale, VIC
Has thanked: 1243 times
Been thanked: 459 times

Re: Ballarat proposals

Postby 743 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:47 am

Interesting to note on that map that the Creswick inset shows Route B30 while on the main map it's just 30.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk
743
 
Posts: 175
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:53 pm
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 58 times

Re: Ballarat proposals

Postby Craig » Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:46 pm

Weekday peak frequency information along with a summary of key route changes for the new Ballarat network commencing 29/1/2017 has now been provided on the CDC website - http://cdcvictoria.com.au/timetables/ballarat

Kind Regards



Craig :-)
User avatar
Craig
 
Posts: 4327
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2004 11:26 pm
Location: Edithvale, VIC
Has thanked: 1243 times
Been thanked: 459 times

Re: Ballarat proposals

Postby Craig » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:07 pm

The new timetables appeared on the PTV website over a week ago.

The below summary features in this month's Table Talk journal. It does neglect to mention that just like the Bendigo changes a year ago, the Friday night only trips have been removed.

Ballarat boost
Ballarat is the latest regional centre to enjoy a major revision to their bus network, with more direct and more frequent services to be introduced by CDC Ballarat on 29 January alongside a revised V/Line timetable. The bus network upgrade was deferred by 18 months due to funding issues, it was initially due to begin in June 2015 in conjunction with the new Regional Rail Link timetable.

The number of routes has been rationalised from 19 to 15, as follows:
10 (Ballarat – Alfredton via Wendouree): replaces former Route 1 along Howitt St, former Route 16 in Lake Gardens (but directly along Gillies St North) and former Route 15 along Strut St
11 (Ballarat – Wendouree Station via Howitt St): largely replaces former Route 1
12 (Ballarat – Wendouree Station via Forest St): replaces parts of former Routes 2 & 6 in Wendouree area
13 (Ballarat – Invermay Park): largely replaces former Route 4 but also incorporates the former Route 2 along Lydiard St
14 (Ballarat – Black Hill): largely replaces former Route 5 but with more bi-directional operation
15 (Ballarat – Brown Hill): replaces former Route 7 with expanded coverage in Brown Hill and now travelling via Museum of Australian Democracy at Eureka (section along former Routes 8 & 9)
20 (Ballarat – Canadian): Replaces the south-east sections of former circular Routes 8 & 9
21 (Ballarat – Buninyong via Federation Uni): Replaces former Route 10
22 (Ballarat – Federation Uni via Sebastopol): Replaces former Route 12 along Albert St before providing a new weekday link from Sebastopol to Federation Uni
23 (Ballarat – Mt Pleasant): Replaces former Route 11
24 (Ballarat – Sebastopol): Replaces former Route 13 along Pleasant St and Alfred St before incorporating former Routes 12 & 19 in western parts of Sebastopol, providing some streets with a Ballarat link and full time buses for the first time
25 (Ballarat – Delacombe): Replaces former Route 14 in Delacombe along with much of the Route 13 loop through south-west Delacombe, improving local access to the new Delacombe Town Centre
26 (Ballarat – Alfredton): Replaces former Route 18 with greater coverage west of Alfredton Primary School
30 (Ballarat – Creswick): Replaces former Route 3
31 (Wendouree Station – Miners Rest): Replaces former Route 17 but now travels via Wendouree Shopping Centre enroute to Wendouree Station

Confusing and poorly documented through-routing in Ballarat has been eliminated, which had failed to make it clear most routes served the station (as they were passing the station showing the number of the through-routed service). A consistent operating pattern has been introduced, with buses on all routes now heading to the station. Inbound buses travel along Curtis St while all outbound trips operate via Little Bridge St.

Wendouree and Alfredton residents benefit from enhanced access to their local Wendouree station (opened on 12 June 2009), which is now directly served by Routes 10, 11, 12 & 31, compared to just Route 17 under the former network. Other routes had run nearby but failed to call at the station, and in some cases (such as Route 2) the nearest stop was up to a 15 min walk away.

In a related win, Wendouree Station gains more weekend trains from 29 January, eliminating gaps of over 5 hours when trains had originated or terminated at Ballarat.

Bus frequencies have been standarised to clockface headways, although there is little consistency of service levels between routes:
• Routes 21 & 22 operate a 30 min Monday to Saturday headway with hourly buses on Sundays. Route 22 terminates in Sebastopol on weekends. Information on the CDC website suggests Route 21 between Federation Uni & Buninyong would only be served hourly on weekdays but this the existing half-hourly service has been retained.
• Routes 12, 14, 15 operate a 30 min weekday headway & hourly weekends
• Route 11 operates a 30 min Monday to Saturday headway but just 3 trips on Sundays
• Routes 25 & 26 operate a 30 min weekday headway, hourly Saturdays and 90 min Sundays
• Routes 20, 23 & 24 all operate hourly 7 days
• Routes 10, 13 operate a hourly Monday to Saturday headway and every 90 mins on Sundays
• Route 30 operates hourly Monday to Saturday with 3 trips on Sundays
• Route 31 operates hourly Monday to Saturday with no Sunday service

In particular, the hourly and 90 min Sunday services are significant increase – it was common for Ballarat routes to operate just 3 or 4 trips across the day, using a limited number of vehicles.

The proposed introduction of a new regional numbering system with town-prefixes (eg B24) to avoid conflicts between different towns (thus improving search results on the PTV website & app) discussed last during the Ballarat consultation last year has not gone ahead.


Kind Regards


Craig :-)
User avatar
Craig
 
Posts: 4327
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2004 11:26 pm
Location: Edithvale, VIC
Has thanked: 1243 times
Been thanked: 459 times



  • Advertisement

Return to Discussion - Melbourne / VIC

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests